Raid Finder Woes

90 Dwarf Warrior
9275
One of the things the OP seems to be getting at is that there is an unspoken level of expectation for tanks in this game, and that expectation does not hold true for other roles (at least DPS, if not healers). It is expected that tanks do a lot of prep work before going into any instance. Tanks are expected to be perfectly geared, itemized, reforged, gemmed, and enchanted. Tanks are expected to know the fights before going into the instance. Tanks are expected to know the trash pulls, which packs can be skipped, which packs will wipe the raid if left alone, and so on. I doubt that anyone on this forum will disagree with what I've outlined; these things come with the territory, and as a tank, that's what you've signed up for.

A guild will work together as a team to overcome the challenges of any given raid. They go through the growing pains of raiding together, and so the pressure of the expectation is a bit diffused. The raid team watches the tank grow more equipped, more competent, and more confident with each downed boss. As the raid tackles increasingly difficult content, the tanks will often be the cornerstone of the raid team, and it's everyone else that needs to step up their game in order to progress. The LFR system does not afford tanks the opportunity to show their competence over several weeks, and the expectation for tanks is brought back into the spotlight.

There is a certain sentiment that tanking is the easiest role in the game when it comes to raiding. If this is true, it's only true for the actual mechanics associated with the pull; tanks do more work before any raid than any other role, by far, because tanks (and healers) are both expected to perform flawlessly in every encounter, regardless of content level. This has been true of PUGged content since PUGs came into being. The extension of raiding to the cross-server group filling mechanism has simply carried the expectation forward.

As a tank, you need to rise to the occasion. Otherwise, you're giving the rest of us a bad name.

TL;DR - Yes, you're expected to be perfect. If you don't like that, go respec and play as DPS.
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14 Dwarf Hunter
30
I never said tanking was hard. I said I've made mistakes, which apparently is something nobody else is comfortable admitting they've ever done. The original post was more of a vent because tanks are the only people who get told to DIAF for their mistakes.



i fully admit when i make mistakes - and it happens a LOT, ask my raid group (hell, even here on the forums). people are, generally, cooler about it if you ADMIT it and just move on, showing you've learned from your screw ups than if you sit silently and expect them to understand that you're not a mouth breather and have the ability to learn. a lot of people don't (appear to) have that ability and do the same thing five or six times in a row, until they get yelled at, then they come to the forums and whine that some LFR group was mean to them "for no reason"

wondering how this is different than LFG, or any raid in any previous expansion that was PUG'd. nothing has changed, it's just easier to get into the position now.
Edited by Freph on 3/18/2012 8:11 AM PDT
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90 Goblin Death Knight
9550
03/17/2012 09:11 PMPosted by Rynokism
The original post was more of a vent because tanks are the only people who get told to DIAF for their mistakes.


This is not accurate, though it may seem so at times. Regardless, this is hardly news. If you want to tank, you'll simply have to get used to idiots running off their collective mouths.


Honestly, every time I have done LFR on all my toons, the only times the tanks get called bad names is when they fail a tanking mechanic. Now, several times I have been in groups that kicked the low dps and the low hps. If you are fail you get the bad names and kicked. I have never when tanking in LFR gotten flak. But hey LFR is so easy 1 tank can do it all. 1 tank can soak all the fading lights and hour of twilights, and impale in LFR is a joke. Its funny how the OP is getting mad when getting constructive criticism.
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85 Goblin Warrior
0
I just unlocked LFR today, im thinking maybe I should play through as a dps first. Learn the fights that way. It has always sucked that they make the fights overly complicated forcing 90% of players to follow how somebody else beat it rather than figure it out on their own. Who wants to deal with that though right, I just want the drops. I mean I could enjoy some boss fights, but they make them so un-enjoyable you don't have time to sit back and say oh thats cool. You will hear more people complain over mechanics than praise them.

I don't think I have really ever seen a boss that I or somebody else in the group didn't have some prior knowledge of abilities. Even newer content, I think thats wrong considering what type of this game should be. Your essentially spoiling or ruining the essence that is a video game by having to resort to outside info before attempting anything.

Of the two raids that I have partially studied, alot of the encounters seem to have the standard tank swap need to counter a debuf. This is fine but they are still making the other abilities more complicated, it seems like they just tack a swap debuf in there out of bordom. This is the details they should include into the dungeon/raid journal so I dont have to google moar stuff all the time. I do however love the grind up to raid level, I just only rarely manage to continue into full raiding. Maybe I should get back into pvp.

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90 Night Elf Druid
8955
1. Get a thicker skin. Unless the raid actually kicked you, it's just one or two loudmouths. They'd probably complain if you did more DPS than them too. Someone once started a kick campaign against me for being a terrible healer while I was tanking ultraxion.

2. DPS need to monitor threat on a pull. If any dps dies because they had aggro, it's almost always their fault. DPS have threat drops and survival cooldowns for a reason.

3. You can't roll deathwing on your own. If he rolled, it's because EVERYONE was in the wrong place. Admittedly it's easier for melee if the tank is on the spine, but I've been in raids where we've tried to roll deathwing and not been able to, because one or two people weren't on the correct side.

4. LFR and LFD are pretty toxic right now. They're full of people who want their loots, haven't been getting their loots for weeks, and either are just there to be carried (and therefore don't care at all about their fellow raiders) or feel like they spend every LFR carrying everyone (and therefore don't care at all about anyone who's slightly off the ball).
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90 Troll Priest
12105
Why do you care?

It is a serious question.

You say you make minor mistakes, but you know the fights. The boss dies and few/no one in the raid does. So, why are you so hung up on what is said in LFR raid chat? You shouldn't be.

Hell, many no longer have raid chat enabled. I know when I join LFR, I switch to a different chat window. Make a new chat window that has raid chat disabled, guild chat enabled, and just do your thing. Switch back when LFR is over, if you want. There is nothing of importance going on in LFR raid chat. And on the rare chance you need to say something, usually to the other tank about who will dps on X boss, use whispers.
Edited by Vear on 3/18/2012 7:08 PM PDT
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90 Troll Priest
12105
03/18/2012 05:15 PMPosted by Bolg
I just unlocked LFR today, im thinking maybe I should play through as a dps first. Learn the fights that way.


Smart man. Best advice you can get is dps it first and see what it's like. The mechanics are extremely easy, but even easy mechanics require a little understanding. Blindly walking into it just sucks, for you and the rest of the raid.
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90 Tauren Paladin
9825
No offense, but tanking is pretty simple. If you are having trouble after 5 weeks... then I don't really know what to say.
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55 Dwarf Death Knight
13010
I was thinking about this topic...

Morchok.... Keep him where he stands
Warlord.... Keep him where he stands
Yorsahj.... Keep him where he stands
Hagara.... move 2 inches on her cast
Ultraxion.... You can't move him
Warmaster.... Don't stand in bad
Spine.... Ok, this one requires positioning to a point.... but I'd hope after "5-10" runs you'd figure it out
Madness... Stand in bubble.

positioning wise... It's really hard to screw it up.
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85 Dwarf Paladin
7010
idk about you, but I wouldn't want to be learning a role with 24 other people watching. they're probably going to put a raid mark on you, and since the boss follows you around, they're going to know if you're doing it right. you take enough crud from people in 5 mans if you make a small mistake. This is that x5.
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90 Human Paladin
12965
03/17/2012 08:12 PMPosted by Oddnaught
This isn't about "Gee, I keep doing this, but it just never makes sense to me." It's more "I'm in a raid full of idiots that are barely coherent, but my minimal mistakes that ultimately mean nothing get screamed about while everyone else gets to derp however they want without comment."


This isn't new, and is one of the major reasons tanks are harder to find for random groups.

Your options are basically to either grow thicker skin or switch to DPS.

It isn't pretty, and it isn't fair, but it's the honest truth.
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90 Human Paladin
12965
03/18/2012 05:15 PMPosted by Bolg
I just unlocked LFR today, im thinking maybe I should play through as a dps first. Learn the fights that way. It has always sucked that they make the fights overly complicated forcing 90% of players to follow how somebody else beat it rather than figure it out on their own.


The fights aren't that hard or complex on LFR difficulty. Your biggest challenge as a tank will be tuning out the idiots who look for any excuse to become completely unhinged in raid chat.
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85 Tauren Paladin
1485
if they give me !@#$ for something that wasn't my fault, I tell them to eat %^-*. If it was my fault I apologize, and tell them it won't happen again, thanks for the correction. If they just say, this tank sucks, I say "yeah, but I suck real good"

gronc
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85 Tauren Paladin
1485
actually my biggest problem on LFR is dealling with that many people, when learning the fight it just seems easier with less people running around. Especially on spine, man I have a hard time finding and taunting those bloods with 24 other people running around. But that is because I have a smallish computer screen and 45 year old eyes :)

but seriously, if it isn't fun don't do it. It is a game damn it, play it like its a game.

gronc
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
14960
specially on spine, man I have a hard time finding and taunting those bloods with 24 other people running around. But that is because I have a smallish computer screen and 45 year old eyes :)


Do you have nameplates enables? There's a great addon that replaces Blizzard's rather clumsy and oversized nameplates. It's called Tidy Plates. Having a health bar over every enemy, with debuffs and threat level included, is invaluable to a tank doing anything involving multiple enemies.
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Solution: Go into LFR as dps and PAY ATTENTION to the tank mechanics.

Augment with a youtube vid or two.


Yep... like that.
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90 Human Paladin
7930
03/17/2012 08:12 PMPosted by Oddnaught
It seems the general consensus is I shouldn't be making any mistakes, because I chose to be a tank.
The general consensus is an idiot.

But yes. Why be okay with making mistakes? Holding yourself to a higher standard (the same flawed one to which they hold you) is only going to make you a better player.
[e]General Consensus
/salute
Edited by Esteemed on 3/28/2012 1:41 PM PDT
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