Glyph of Demon Hunting (warlock tanks)?

90 Human Warlock
6530
Awesome. last patch i just stopped playinwith my warrior because of my Warlock. i was about to going back to my Warrior because i enjoy tanking, now if i can tank with my lock, all my problems will be solved, haha!
Seriously, this is almost as good as Green Fire.
i Hope blizzard keep the idea. and i would like to see how Voidwalker/VoidLord will play. it would be awesome to use voidwalker to tank for some seconds when needed and using his abilities for defensive cds and stuff like that.

God, i want so much to have warlocks tanking. wish it was a fourth spec like demonhunter or something, but thats still awesome.
By the way, when i see vids with demon form, is Demonic Slash throwin alot of instant shadowbolts? is it workin as intended? because it felt a little weird seeing those shadowbolts while Slashing stuff.(Can't really say since i'm not yet on beta, but just looked a little weird.)
Also i liked more the Immolation aura effect. looked better than the usual hellfire one. i think hellfire wave sound all the time during a fight will kill my ears.The only problem i see with being a Mitigation-only Tank, is Baleroc, where he ignored all mitigation damage and you could only dodge/parry. but it would just make it harder, not impossible to be done. and making Tanks having some advantages on some fights, and some weakness its kinda cool, as long as its not game breaking.

Resumin: SO EXCITED ABOUT WARLOCK TANK, WILL NOT COME BACK TO MY WARRIOR, THANK YOU BLIZZARD, I HOPE THIS GOES LIVE! or rather there will be some years of Rage and QQ in warlock forums that i will be active in sayin how much i wanted to tank with my Lock.
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1 Human Warlock
0
03/25/2012 10:19 PMPosted by Onibaku
By the way, when i see vids with demon form, is Demonic Slash throwin alot of instant shadowbolts? is it workin as intended? because it felt a little weird seeing those shadowbolts while Slashing stuff.(Can't really say since i'm not yet on beta, but just looked a little weird.)


I think those are the auto-attack effect....Touch of Chaos.
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90 Undead Warlock
13925
archimonde + tanking = laziest tank ever... building threat by being hit lol

I LOVE IT!!1!
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85 Undead Warlock
1280
keep it blizz! ABORTION IS UN-AMERICAN!
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90 Orc Shaman
6930
I still think Blizzard will never, never, never be able to balance this. Look at ferals, and remember to consider PvP. Feral worked out so badly over the years that they finally had to split it into 2 specs.

IF they do manage to balance it, the only way will be by devaluing every single secondary stat except for mastery, which is a crappy place to be. It's much similar to where enhance shaman are right now for live. Our only good stat is mastery. The reason I say this is because if crit/haste has a big impact on Demo warlocks then tanks will be way too viable and be the only tanks included in end-game content. Being 100% absorption 0% avoidance tanks will also pose a similar problem.

If they make demo tanks completely reliant on mastery and take all their damage away with the mastery change it will also pose big problems. Demo locks at low gear level will be non-viable for dps because they'll be so reliant on the stat. Demo tank scaling will be fluffed up by high gear levels.

Furthermore any type of secondary stat conversion to avoidance will make even more dps issues.

Again, I love the idea of warlocks tanking. It would indeed make my life complete. But I just can't condone it with this development team. They are absolutely incapable of balancing the game as is, and this is a harder challenge to balance than any other they've had, and to quote some crazy demon, they "are not prepared."

I doubt this will make live, but if it does I think it'll be cut a week later when endgame content is completed on Heroic mode by 20 Demo warlocks and 5 healers.
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90 Human Warlock
15345
I still think Blizzard will never, never, never be able to balance this. Look at ferals, and remember to consider PvP. Feral worked out so badly over the years that they finally had to split it into 2 specs.

IF they do manage to balance it, the only way will be by devaluing every single secondary stat except for mastery, which is a crappy place to be. It's much similar to where enhance shaman are right now for live. Our only good stat is mastery. The reason I say this is because if crit/haste has a big impact on Demo warlocks then tanks will be way too viable and be the only tanks included in end-game content. Being 100% absorption 0% avoidance tanks will also pose a similar problem.

If they make demo tanks completely reliant on mastery and take all their damage away with the mastery change it will also pose big problems. Demo locks at low gear level will be non-viable for dps because they'll be so reliant on the stat. Demo tank scaling will be fluffed up by high gear levels.

Furthermore any type of secondary stat conversion to avoidance will make even more dps issues.

Again, I love the idea of warlocks tanking. It would indeed make my life complete. But I just can't condone it with this development team. They are absolutely incapable of balancing the game as is, and this is a harder challenge to balance than any other they've had, and to quote some crazy demon, they "are not prepared."


They will need to do some fine tuning, of course. But I believe there is a bug right now causing the super high damage on the beta right now, so I am sure in a few more builds the dps will be down.

The mitigation is very, very over powered and will need some adjustments, but I am sure Blizzard will be capable of making this work out some way or another.

03/26/2012 12:01 PMPosted by Rathshock
I doubt this will make live, but if it does I think it'll be cut a week later when endgame content is completed on Heroic mode by 20 Demo warlocks and 5 healers.


More like 25 demo warlocks, have you seen them on beta? Oh man.
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
8865
So with the glyph demo locks can tank without the glyph they are just dps is this correct?
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90 Human Warlock
15345
03/26/2012 12:18 PMPosted by Falic
So with the glyph demo locks can tank without the glyph they are just dps is this correct?


Correct!
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90 Human Warlock
15345
Dear Blizzard,

If this gets removed, the warlock community will do this to you:
http://uberhumor.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/BhuMC4.jpg

Thank you,
-Community.
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90 Goblin Warlock
14285
I still think Blizzard will never, never, never be able to balance this.

IF they do manage to balance it, the only way will be by .


So Blizzard can't balance it except when they can. Very constructive. The idea for balance of this spec honestly cannot be considered until the dps is brought in line. Why is it that the loudest opponents of this spec change are shaman? *-edit: sorry same shaman that made the ridiculous comment earlier about "rockbiter didn't make shamans tank. nuff said" Pretty much since it didn't happen for you it's not going to happen...

03/26/2012 12:01 PMPosted by Rathshock
But I just can't condone it with this development team.

Really? Primarily you're just arguing to argue in opposition and alert everyone that you have absolutely no confidence in the development team. You have the right to your opinion but by what you're saying is by Blizzards ability they shouldn't even consider patching the game.

Look at ferals, and remember to consider PvP. Feral worked out so badly over the years that they finally had to split it into 2 specs. It's much similar to where enhance shaman are right now for live. Our only good stat is mastery.

Good to also hear you have been to the developer meetings and have all the information lined up as to why changes have happened in the game. Must be pretty nice to have such actual insight and be able to divulge why Feral needs to be split into 2 specs. Who was it exactly that said that the Feral spec should be split into 2 specs because its been so hard to balance the last few years?

03/26/2012 12:01 PMPosted by Rathshock
Again, I love the idea of warlocks tanking.

Except that you don't love it, don't think it's possible, believe that it will be cut from the game because you and all of your video game development and industry experience leads you to the conclusion that it is impossible.

Just... go away. If you can't believe that companies and people learn from their mistakes and can actually do something with those lessons in mind, why even play a game that is so broken?
Edited by Pheromoan on 3/26/2012 4:13 PM PDT
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90 Human Warlock
15345
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/4253968049#12

Just to make our intent clear, the Glyph of Demon Hunting isn't intended to turn Demonology warlocks into a tanking spec. You won't be able to queue as a tank for Dungeon Finder for instance and won't have the survivability or tools of say a Protection paladin.

Historically, warlocks felt tankier than other casters and could even off-tank some encounters. We have made an effort in Mists to recapture some of that flavor. A warlock with this glyph should feel like they are about as effective tanking as an Arms warrior who pulls out a shield and swaps to Defensive Stance, or a Feral druid who goes into Bear form. You might be able to off-tank adds or pick up an actual boss for a short period of time if the tank goes down.

To make warlocks an actual tank would take more significant changes. For example, we want tanks to have to pick up separate tanking gear than their DPS gear (this is even true of druids) and want tanks to have to give up some of their DPS potential in exchange for their survivability. In short, it needs to be a commitment, and that's the sort of thing that needs larger gameplay changes than just a glyph.

That shouldn't stop the glyph of Demon Hunting from being fun though. As you can probably tell, we are trying to make even the major glyphs more about character customization and fun.
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90 Worgen Warlock
14690
Ah well. There goes my lock. This was the one thing that would have kept me on her for another expansion. So much potential for awesomeness, wasted.

At least my monk will be fresh and new.
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90 Orc Shaman
6930
I still think Blizzard will never, never, never be able to balance this.

IF they do manage to balance it, the only way will be by .


So Blizzard can't balance it except when they can. Very constructive. The idea for balance of this spec honestly cannot be considered until the dps is brought in line. Why is it that the loudest opponents of this spec change are shaman? *-edit: sorry same shaman that made the ridiculous comment earlier about "rockbiter didn't make shamans tank. nuff said" Pretty much since it didn't happen for you it's not going to happen...

03/26/2012 12:01 PMPosted by Rathshock
But I just can't condone it with this development team.

Really? Primarily you're just arguing to argue in opposition and alert everyone that you have absolutely no confidence in the development team. You have the right to your opinion but by what you're saying is by Blizzards ability they shouldn't even consider patching the game.

Look at ferals, and remember to consider PvP. Feral worked out so badly over the years that they finally had to split it into 2 specs. It's much similar to where enhance shaman are right now for live. Our only good stat is mastery.

Good to also hear you have been to the developer meetings and have all the information lined up as to why changes have happened in the game. Must be pretty nice to have such actual insight and be able to divulge why Feral needs to be split into 2 specs. Who was it exactly that said that the Feral spec should be split into 2 specs because its been so hard to balance the last few years?

03/26/2012 12:01 PMPosted by Rathshock
Again, I love the idea of warlocks tanking.

Except that you don't love it, don't think it's possible, believe that it will be cut from the game because you and all of your video game development and industry experience leads you to the conclusion that it is impossible.

Just... go away. If you can't believe that companies and people learn from their mistakes and can actually do something with those lessons in mind, why even play a game that is so broken?


I almost don't know where to start, this is fraught with logical fallacies and untrue statements.

"So Blizzard can't balance it except when they can. Very constructive."

I'm saying there's only 1 way to balance it right now. And that's true. It's not un-constructive. It's true.

Just because I'm posting on a shaman doesn't mean I only play a shaman, or that I represent all shaman. My oldest character and the one I've played most over the years has always been a warlock.

Saying that Blizzard can't do one thing doesn't mean that they aren't allowed to patch their own game. That's like saying because we can't make a flying aircraft carrier we shouldn't use boats.

The reason feral was split was to make it easier to balance 2 functions with 1 spec. You don't have to be in a dev meeting to know how to read.

Loving and idea and believing it's possible are two very different things. I love the idea of lock tanking. I love the idea of flying unicorns. Neither are possible in my opinion.

Just... go away. If you can't read, be polite, respect others' opinions, or remember to use facts when you post, please feel free not to post.
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
8865
Ooooo hahahahha
Edited by Falic on 3/26/2012 8:33 PM PDT
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85 Orc Warlock
9335
Cant wait to get beta and try this in case it never make to live.
Demon tanking is one of the darkest dreams of warlocks next to green fire.
I hope we get a nice fourth spec or at least get to be the replacement to the feral tree.
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90 Blood Elf Warrior
8150
Just to make our intent clear, the Glyph of Demon Hunting isn't intended to turn Demonology warlocks into a tanking spec. You won't be able to queue as a tank for Dungeon Finder for instance and won't have the survivability or tools of say a Protection paladin.

Historically, warlocks felt tankier than other casters and could even off-tank some encounters. We have made an effort in Mists to recapture some of that flavor. A warlock with this glyph should feel like they are about as effective tanking as an Arms warrior who pulls out a shield and swaps to Defensive Stance, or a Feral druid who goes into Bear form. You might be able to off-tank adds or pick up an actual boss for a short period of time if the tank goes down.

To make warlocks an actual tank would take more significant changes. For example, we want tanks to have to pick up separate tanking gear than their DPS gear (this is even true of druids) and want tanks to have to give up some of their DPS potential in exchange for their survivability. In short, it needs to be a commitment, and that's the sort of thing that needs larger gameplay changes than just a glyph.

That shouldn't stop the glyph of Demon Hunting from being fun though. As you can probably tell, we are trying to make even the major glyphs more about character customization and fun.


I'm not entirely sure what ghostcrawler is talking about here. Feral tanks need different gear, that's true, however it only applies to a few pieces of gear and not an entire set. Warlocks would need to collect seperate pieces of gear too. They would need to gem full mastery to get their damage reduction up to acceptable levels, meaning that to get optimum dps they would need to collect another set, or re-gem (not to mention re-enchant) for each change.

Warlocks, as a tank class would be the only one without avoidance, making their damage intake very consistent but slightly higher. This would be awesome, and would make them top tanks for some fights. They already have a taunt (via the glyph) and many cooldowns to leverage to survive with.

The fact that they are taking this away from warlocks seems gross. Seriously, this is one of the major changes that made me want to resurrect my warlock. I will be very sad if they take this away.

Also, I would like to ask what the difference is between a "clutch" tank, and a real tank? Is it not possible that a warlock would gem, enchant, and gear for full mastery and then just "clutch tank" 100% of the time? This may not be viable for bleeding edge progression, but the 99% of players that don't do that would be happy to have another class of tanks in the queue, especially a group of players that have been dying to tank since classic.
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90 Draenei Shaman
11720
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/4253968049#12

On the one hand, I'm really glad Ghostcrawler took the time to clarify their intent. Thankyou. On the other hand, this is a HUGE dissappointment. The principal arguments Ghostcrawler sites (Sufficient CDs, Dedicated Gear, and Adjusted DPS) are certainly addressable.
  • First, I count 4 survivabily CD's just based on the Beta Talent Trees.
  • Second, The existence of Gems, Reforging, and Enchanting pre-determines dedicated gear.
  • Third, If I've augmented my gear for Stamina, Mastery, and Dodge, I'm going to be giving up subsantial DPS from the lost Intellect and DPS secondary stats.

  • Consider this a sincere request to rethink the design intent with Demon Hunting. Giving Warlocks a fully functional Tanking option is do-able and has a significantly better fun/payoff factor than creating a "Clutch" Tanking ability that requires you to design encounters specifically to allow the Demon Hunting Warlock to strut his stuff.
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    Good god, I would so so so so so LOVE to be able to tank with my warlock.

    Like seriously, I hate tanking...but my warlock is my baby...I would really honestly love the option.Yes please!

    Not going to lie, when I caught wind of this lock tanking thing I totally spazzed at my boyfriend with excitement, I sincerely hope that blizzard decides to make it a thing. C:
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    90 Night Elf Death Knight
    13730
    Might as well drop in my 2 cents.

    I'd love warlock tanks. I like tanking, and lock tanks seem to have a different style to them that is unique.
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