hunters need intellect back!

90 Pandaren Hunter
14925
03/30/2012 10:36 AMPosted by Kandesta
Marks hunters are constantly focus starved outside of a 5 min cool down.


That means you are playing wrong. Sorry, but following the recommended rotation and Haste suggestions at Elitist Jerks yields a slightly Focus-positive cycle. If you are starved for Focus outside of your "5 min [sic] cool down," then it's operator error.
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85 Troll Hunter
0
lern2hunter friend
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86 Goblin Hunter
3145
Marks hunters are constantly focus starved outside of a 5 min cool down.


That means you are playing wrong. Sorry, but following the recommended rotation and Haste suggestions at Elitist Jerks yields a slightly Focus-positive cycle. If you are starved for Focus outside of your "5 min [sic] cool down," then it's operator error.


I was talking about PvP.
Edited by Postalz on 3/30/2012 12:12 PM PDT
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87 Orc Hunter
5935
PVE: Focus is great, just as great as mana. In fact, I saw no difference except no viper swapping so I don't have to worry bout lulls in dps. However, in total truth, it's all balanced out.

PvP: HORRIBLE! The 2pc bonus to the PvE set should have been given to the PvP gear back in S9.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
SWC
18960
03/29/2012 11:13 AMPosted by Toxarís
Well we could look at a system not unlike pallys mana/HP..mana/focus. I am just hybridizing with theory here. Dual resource bars anyone..would make for some interesting mechanics druids come to mind in how they shift to dif resources depending.


steady shot, hunters mark, all the other no resource abilities would cost mana and generate focus, and all the high damage abilites (arcane, aimed, etc) would still cost focus. A hybrid mana/focus wouldn't be any better if blizzard decided that they don't want to change the base play style of hunters.
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90 Human Hunter
4385
and now without needing intellect we can focus on stamina and agility.
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85 Night Elf Hunter
2575
IMO focus works, but COMPLETELY makes the class boring as h3ll to play.

As you can see, I don't even play my hunter anymore. But in BC and Wrath it was one of my favorite toons.

Hunters are not fun in the slightest anymore, and way too easy. I agree 100% with bring mana back instead of focus, and MAYBE limited ammo again, though I'd miss the bag space.

/cry R.I.P. fun hunters.
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85 Worgen Priest
1770
While I feel many hunter players DO need intellect, I rather like focus as a resource, especially with 2pc T13.
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85 Draenei Hunter
8235
Was very resistant to focus at first, but I love it now. Although, I don't PVP. I could see it being annoying there.
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90 Night Elf Hunter
16385
Let this thread die... Why am I even in here bumping it?

Yes, it needs "tweaking", but... Focus >> Mana. Get over it.

Also consider the impact on Enhancement Shamans who we share gear with. Blizz would have to revert some of their stuff as well.
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90 Pandaren Hunter
14925
But, I liked being forced into carrying one less bag than everybody else. I liked needing to go into an Aspect that cut my damage in half. I liked not having any choices or flexibility when it came to pet selection. I liked being held hostage to Engineers in order to do competitive DPS. I liked casting Steady Shot all the time because everything else was on cooldown...oh, wait, that one still applies.
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85 Troll Shaman
12475
03/30/2012 06:30 AMPosted by Adarant
2pc t13 needs to be baseline, this patch has been solid proof of that.


The T13 2PC bonus only highlights how extremely well designed Focus is as a resource. All three specs were designed in such a manner to allow your signature shot to remain on cooldown for a sustained period of time and remain Focus-neutral or slightly Focus-positive, without capping Focus. The T13 2PC bonus is powerful not because Focus is poorly designed, but because it is well designed. By approximately doubling the amount of incoming Focus, you significantly increase the ratio of Focus-consuming actions possible to the number of Focus-regenerating actions needed. This bonus turns nearly every playstyle into a Focus-positive state, and removes any sort of Focus management skills that were necessary to play a Hunter.


I would disagree with this simply because I believe the reason 2pc T13 is so well received is because it prevents you from making a lot more cobras/steadies.

Without the two piece you have far less focus to burn on Arcane Shots and even though you may have time before signature shots come off cooldown you can't afford to waste focus on Arcane so you end up spamming more focus regen shots.

I don't believe a system that unrelentingly and consistently constrains you to one weak casted shot could be considered a huge success. Mathematically and systematically it's very elegant and does indeed offer a platform for solid varations, but it's not nearly as fun in practice

Additionally, 2pc T13 was especially awkward when working within the contraints of Improved Steady Shot. It leads to wasted focus generation and removes choice from many of your button presses. "I'd like to shot something cool here but I am forced to steady shot for a cheesy buff, even though I'm focus capped and do not enjoy repeatedly casting weak, unsatisfying attacks."
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90 Pandaren Hunter
14925
04/02/2012 11:43 AMPosted by Deevax
I would disagree with this simply because I believe the reason 2pc T13 is so well received is because it prevents you from making a lot more cobras/steadies.


If you see my above post, while sarcastic, you'll notice that I mention casting Steady Shot. As I really only knew MM well before the Focus conversion, I can only give a decent comparison there. But, before T13, the MM rotation with Mana was nearly identical to the MM rotation with Focus. What everybody forgets is that Arcane Shot had a cooldown (6 seconds, I think), and this necessitated constantly casting Steady Shot. Post-4.0, we were constantly casting Steady Shot to manage Focus rather than cooldowns.

That said, looking at this with a broader lens, I don't think the amount of active regen needs to be tuned upwards. But, I like the concept that is being explored in Beta of increasing the passive regen by rewarding certain actions. Currently, after gaining the ISS buff, MM Hunters get 3 extra Focus per Steady Shot while ISS is active. SV Hunters get 3 Focus per Serpent Sting tic. BM Hunters get a more predictable version of Invigoration, if I recall correctly.

I think the changes to SV and BM will have a better impact than the change to MM. Increasing your passive regen, even when it requires an initial action, enables Hunters to continue Focus regeneration in situations where they are unable to complete a Steady or Cobra cast. While some of this is uncertain, situations that might prevent successful active regen will include LoS, Dodges, Parries, facing requirements, and interrupts (I highly doubt we'll suddenly become interruptable). There hasn't been a lot of information coming out of the beta testers about this information though. Increasing passive regen enables Focus to build even under less than ideal circumstances.

Also, I've yet to hear any information about Efficiency, other than it's not currently there, and how these new regen mechanics feel.

04/02/2012 11:43 AMPosted by Deevax
Mathematically and systematically it's very elegant and does indeed offer a platform for solid varations, but it's not nearly as fun in practice


As that's a subjective statement, I disagree vehemently. I found the practice of Focus management fun.
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85 Troll Shaman
12475
04/02/2012 12:14 PMPosted by Adarant
As that's a subjective statement, I disagree vehemently. I found the practice of Focus management fun.


Focus management as a micro-game is certainly fun enough, I was even a supporter of Imp Steady Shot as I felt it introduced potential for even more skill implementation of your shot choices, but with the advent of 2pc T13 everything was thrown out of whack.

Depending on how you describe it, it either made MM clunky and awkward, or made the 2pc far less useful to MM than SV. Regardless of which explanation you chose, the bonus focus from the 2pc suited SV much better and makes it feel much more fluid.

You could argue that MM took more skill, but I would argue that you're just patting yourself on the back because you think you 'got it' more than other players when in reality most everyone understood what was required and worked with it just fine.

I had initially ranked as MM in DS but found the amount of movement required by the fights made it frustrating to complete a solid rotation. It wasn't impossible but being railroaded into a second Steady Shot at full focus and having to do it in Fox because movement was necessary quickly became unfun. 2pc T13 simply amplified the frustration of casting when the only pertinent reason was to maintain a buff, even when you didn't need focus or casting wasn't in your best interest.

Switching to SV was like getting out of prison. It is fluid, fun, even more mobile, still requires a certain amount of focus management but not for the sake of focus management. Everything you pool is out of necessity, not because of some contrived mechanic. 2pc T13 simply made it easier to pool and lead to even more fluidity and mobility.
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90 Dwarf Hunter
16400
I challenge anyone to do Heroic Yor'sahj, Heroic Spine, or Heroic Madness and say that mana should come back. Hunters wouldn't even be viable on those.

Focus just needs tweaks in the amount provided.
Edited by Bullettime on 4/2/2012 4:31 PM PDT
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85 Night Elf Hunter
2575
Does NOBODY think that focus just made hunters boring? At least with mana you had to WORK to try to be viable. Now its pretty much infinite (if you manage your shots right, which lets face it, is VERY simple) and totally effortless to play.

I know mana probably won't ever be back. But hunters NEED to be a tad harder to play, and definitely more engaging.
Edited by Cynnall on 4/5/2012 12:44 PM PDT
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90 Troll Hunter
14450
focus is far better then mana was. The rotations are pretty much the same now with focus as it was with mana. Mana ran out very quick if you didn't have a JoW pally in the raid. Took only 40 or so seconds to burn the entire bar out. Guess what, now you stuck for the next 40 seconds doing 50% damage in viper.
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