The Decline and Fall of Warlocks in Cataclysm

85 Orc Warlock
4385
Well written, with a logical and cogent argument. The best piece on the topic I have seen, bar none.
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85 Orc Warlock
15100
I enjoyed reading the articles and Cynwise you are a very good writer.

I'm one of the dissenting voices on these forums as I think our class has been in a spectacular position throughout this expansion with all of our PVE specs being viable and an amazing pvp ability in affliction and while I do not agree with several of your conclusions I enjoyed the read and applaud you for putting so much thought into the articles.
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90 Worgen Warlock
12475
My warlock is my first toon, and my favorite, but blizzard does hate us and I feel like they are trying to get rid of us.
Every single patch or expansion, they nerf us even more.
My "bank alt" shammy with 1/2 the gear can pull 10k more dos than my iLevel 400 warlock.
Yes, I can dps past just about every warlock on my server, but compare my numbers to a shammy or shadow priest and forget it!
Where did Blizzard get off with this logic on shadow priests?
Aren't warlocks supposed to be the masters of shadow magic?
Not anymore, now you have a shadow priest that can not only out dps a warlock by 10k +, but they can heal too?
It sure seems that Blizzard is trying to force us to give up.
Maybe some day if they allow a class change, but other than that, I have all my mounts, achievements, pets, etc on my warlock.
Please Blizzard, just be honest with us and tell us what you are doing to warlocks.
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90 Worgen Warlock
12475
If Blizzard does decide to fix our DPS, here are some feature requests I would like to see;

Portals and hearthstones should no longer take multiple people to summon. With Mages doing it by themselves, and the guild Have Group features, warlocks should be able to do this on their own by now.

Enslave Demon should no longer have a time limit and the captured demon should match the warlock's level. Hunter pets auto-level and they can keep them, so why not us? Maybe we can keep up to 5 or so, or replace 1 of our demons.

Soul shatter should completely take us out of combat. Mages, hunters, and many other classes can leave combat 100% and even eat/drink. This is a horribly unfair advantage in arena. We should be able to do something similar, especially since Blizzard took away most of our spells during arena.
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2 Draenei Priest
0
I enjoyed reading the articles and Cynwise you are a very good writer.

I'm one of the dissenting voices on these forums as I think our class has been in a spectacular position throughout this expansion with all of our PVE specs being viable and an amazing pvp ability in affliction and while I do not agree with several of your conclusions I enjoyed the read and applaud you for putting so much thought into the articles.


I agree with you, but anyone who bothers to armory you will find you definitely do not fit into any category with the majority of warlocks. My warlock is a HM raider with a legendary, as well - I don't have any problems switching between all three specs and I can rank on any of them. I don't often like the changes given to our class, but even if it seems awkward or difficult, I enjoy the challenge of overcoming it and performing well.

That said, most of the warlocks I know or have met don't raid HMs or raid, at all; they don't do arena and they tend to get stomped in battlegrounds - I can see why the class/specs are difficult for them and I believe that "this is too hard/unfun for most warlocks" is an objective position to take in regards to the current warlock playstyles.

So I don't know if you really are a dissenting voice with any sort of comparable experience - you're part of a minority as far as warlocks go. The minority of warlocks who do well in any circumstance is extremely small compared to the majority that can barely do well in one circumstance (or spec).
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91 Human Warlock
8695
The main reason I've stopped playing my lock is that it went from a great 1v1 class in pvp to a terrible UA/fearbot class in rated pvp.

I do some arena's and have done some rated bg's. But in general, I'm pretty casual. I just like to queue up for random bg's, perhaps with a friend or two. And it has just become frustrating that most any melee class can train you to death unless you already have an awesome placement of your portal up or have a healer with/near you.

Unless you are an amazing and awesome spell juker, with have interrupt heavy the game is now, you'll just be locked out against anyone with skill and good latency to watch for fear or UA if you're affl. A lot of classes have multiple ways out of fear or ways to stop fear that they just save their trinket for death coil in 1v1 situations.
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91 Human Warlock
8695
Also multiple nerfs without much or any compensation has wrecked my eagerness to play a class. Unless you are obviously op and need nerfs, getting nerfed over and over just steals your enthusiasm.

I also loved playing affliction and being able to dot !@#$ up and drainlife as filler in PvE. The feeling of afflicting a mob and then draining their essence was awesome. And the whole idea of the Warlock supposed to be a risk/reward class with lifetaping, draining life back, risky summons of infernals or doomguards etc. They've taken most of that away and nerfing drainlife's damage to the ground saddened me.

Another thing, although I don't know how much that has been talked about, is how little they've done with lock pets compared to hunter pets. They dps/pvp/tanking pets and pet talents and can tame exotic pets if BM. While Warlock pets just seem to become less and less important to the class when it was a vital part of it.
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91 Human Warlock
8695
I mean you spec Demonology, you focus on being more like a demon and focus more on your pets. You get a felguard, and it's basically only good for aoe pulls. Its you spec specific pet and it can be treated as being useless if you wanted to. That's totally bogus. I miss the days of master demonology, the better soul link and the focus of the spec being on your pet rather then your spells. That felt more like a lock then having to play destruction which is essentially a fire mage or affliction which has turned into a mage play style of a couple dots and hard casting a bolt type spell.

Imo that's not what the whole class was about. Now, it looks like they've done a lot in MoP to fix some of these issues and make the Warlock interesting again and it has me excited. But waiting 2-3 years before working on the class is inexcusable to me, I could be wrong, but it's inexcusable...
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91 Human Warlock
8695
I agree with you, but anyone who bothers to armory you will find you definitely do not fit into any category with the majority of warlocks. My warlock is a HM raider with a legendary, as well - I don't have any problems switching between all three specs and I can rank on any of them. I don't often like the changes given to our class, but even if it seems awkward or difficult, I enjoy the challenge of overcoming it and performing well.

That said, most of the warlocks I know or have met don't raid HMs or raid, at all; they don't do arena and they tend to get stomped in battlegrounds - I can see why the class/specs are difficult for them and I believe that "this is too hard/unfun for most warlocks" is an objective position to take in regards to the current warlock playstyles.

So I don't know if you really are a dissenting voice with any sort of comparable experience - you're part of a minority as far as warlocks go. The minority of warlocks who do well in any circumstance is extremely small compared to the majority that can barely do well in one circumstance (or spec).


Well of course if you have all the top end gear you'll do well, lol. And in my opinion locks don't do great in arena's because they are a great pvp class. They are just the only class that has a spammable cc that don't instantly break on damage that they can cycle on everyone while protecting that or other cc or spells with UA. And the fact that they have stupid synergy with resto shamans.
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98 Blood Elf Warlock
6395
03/30/2012 06:16 PMPosted by Myoda
Cynwise you are a wordsmith. That was a beautifully written piece that is spot on. Now get bizz to read it please.


Unfortunately Blizz appears to be generally not responsive to stuff like Cyn's writings. The only way this is going to get to Blizz is if it and it's concepts are shared and discussed widely and rationally. Be Polite. Be Professional and have a plan to ki….no, no, no…wrong game.
Still, be polite and professional.

So: Talk about the "Simplicity Tax" and the virtues and vices of the "bring the player, not the class" philosophy to any interested players. We aren't the only class having trouble with this approach, find the others and bring them into the discussion. Try to use the framework that Cyn writes about to think about how (for instance) hunters and warriors have their own population problems. If you have your own blog, use it. If not, post here or at Cyn's or both.

If, weeks from now, I tune into conversations on WoW and hear people discussing "simplicity tax" and "niche dissonance', even if the discussers have no idea where it started, we'll be in a better place to help Blizz build a more fun experience for us all.
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03/31/2012 12:40 AMPosted by Naaraku
If that's the case why are so any older players so !@#$ty?


In my case, i had to leave Wow in mid TBC (Sunwell plateau was just coming out) and the first video of WoTLK was available. i was able to come back at the end of Wrath but had to finish leveling this lock (guild moved servers and i couldnt afford Xfer). Since then, i have been struggling with all the changes to the class during those months and years. Back in TBC, metamorphasis was for a "Oh Darn" moment, not for extra damage (but i think we were just seeing that then, from what i remember). SoC was our AoE spell, not hellfire. Hellfire was for raid wipes for the most part, to save on repair bills.

Now, my habits and thought processes are STILL in TBC mindset... my problem, not Blizzards, but its still hard. I do on the average *hangs head in shame* about 14k to 15k damage on overall average on a heroic twilight run. Maybe 18k or more on a boss, maybe... if i can be a turret.

Tried a Frost DK, and his dps is worse *shocking*. I loved the game and my toon and i was the terror of Karazhan... in TBC time. Now, i play with friends and wish my guildies good luck on their raid because my dps is too low to go with them. If they could take me, they would, but they have their own DPS problems and dont need me making it worse.

I have the Annual Pass... but iim not looking forward to MoP Beta... or even MoP. I am still trying to relearn the class from Wrath/Cata... and i have to relearn it all over again in MoP, assuming i get the expansion.

I have been a lock since early Classic... and i will remain a lock until i close my account for good, but when i do, im deleteing all my toons so i will have no reason to come back, even if i start to long to play WoW again. That is how bitter i am over the years of nerfing, ignoring and neglect we have had.
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90 Human Warlock
7955
Believe it or not this is my second oldest toon, a druid was my first, going all the way back to pre-BC. This class has changed drastically over the years.

Bliz likes easy to play, hard to master. I don't know if the lock is that easy to play. I noticed that the well written comments examine end game content and see no real DPS issue, bar the complexity of play tax. I wonder though how many players raid or pvp at high end and thus only see a class that is below average dps and hard to play? If only 10% of the player base participates in high end pvp/pve content, the rest will only see a below average class, or perhaps I read the numbers incorrectly.

Perhaps scaling dps differently, which would bring average dps up for average players? I mean when you are trying to avoid standing in the fire, ccing nps's, and managing a complex dot, nuke system something has to give and for the lock I suspect it might be dps, but this is just my opinion.

As well, over time our utility has greatly diminished, as you mentioned. Everyone can summon now, cc from other classes doesn't require a specific pet, soul stone isn't what it once was, but the complexity remains. Having a general cc that was a spell across all three specs, I suspect would have helped a lot in Cata, since cc was important again - perhaps an incase soul spell, so the npc just stood there (a simple spell without gylphs and macros)... I can remember on my tanking toon that we just wouldn't roll without a mage in BC and locks were left out in the cold because of that. People notice those things, and bring the class made a small comeback in that sense for Cata.

My two cents...
Edited by Belisandra on 3/31/2012 8:28 AM PDT
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"I do on the average *hangs head in shame* about 14k to 15k damage on overall average on a heroic twilight run. Maybe 18k or more on a boss, maybe... if i can be a turret."

I was in the same boat for most of this expansion. I got to the point I could run a heroic dungeon and be ok but nothing special but I wanted to raid. I wanted something easy to level that had some utility. I decided on a elemental shaman. Boy has it ever worked out. Almost the same Item level with the lock and shammy but the Shammy does 35k dps compared to 15k dps on the lock.

I consider conflag and lava burst to be the same mechanic. both require a dot to be on the target except lava burst hits so much harder. Minimum my lava burst hits for 45k usually more. My conflagarate sometimes hits for 14k. For a spell with an 8 second cd that is bs. Secondly chain lightning on my Shaman is awesome. I literally obliterate trash mobs with it. Rain of fire is a joke. Hits for 3-8k? What was blizzard thinking?

Plus my totems bring a nice benefit to any raid. With DI sometimes I don't have a good target to put it on so my dps suffers even more.

I don't do arena so I can't comment on that but in a random BG locks get destroyed by all melee classes it seems. We need a speed boost or something. Portal just isn't a viable option all the time.

Playing a lock this expansion almost made me quit this game. I have since made 3 other 85's and none require a quarter the effort to play and they all produce much better results. blizzard needs revamp the lock so not only the exceptional players can produce results but the average wow player can do comparable numbers to other caster classes. I hate leaving my lock on the shelf but I want to raid and I just can't do it on him.
Edited by Whodamage on 3/31/2012 8:24 AM PDT
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That was an awesome read. Great job, Cynwise!

*edit to add thoughts.

One of the factors that many theory-crafters overlook is the human element. People like and dislike things.

For example, I love feta cheese. Another person may not. There is no underlying scientific reason for it. It's just how people are.

I feel the same principle applies to the classes and specs people play. Theory-crafters may claim a class's popularity depends upon its power or play style but ultimately it comes down to people are people.

I love my warlock. She's just fun for me. Someone else may try a warlock and say DoTs and pets are not for them.

That does not mean there is something wrong with the class. It's like choosing blue over red.

Because I feel that is what truly lies at the heart of the matter, it is my hope that Blizzard does not make the class unrecognizable if they are making changes in an attempt to increase the spec's popularity. It's okay to be a less popular class with a small but devoted player base.
Edited by Helayne on 3/31/2012 12:10 PM PDT
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85 Undead Warlock
3660
Great read.

Really, the only reason to play a Warlock is because, at the end of the day, you just feel like a sheepish tool playing anything else.

That and the biscuits.

Everyone likes biscuits.
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Great read.

Really, the only reason to play a Warlock is because, at the end of the day, you just feel like a sheepish tool playing anything else.

That and the biscuits.

Everyone likes biscuits.


With garlic and cheddar? *hopeful*
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85 Undead Warlock
3660
Great read.

Really, the only reason to play a Warlock is because, at the end of the day, you just feel like a sheepish tool playing anything else.

That and the biscuits.

Everyone likes biscuits.


With garlic and cheddar? *hopeful*


The Red Lobster ones.

OMG I know what I'm having for dinner.
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Quit playing my Demo lock. for all the above reasons. First and favorite toon, then they killed it. I now play a Frost DK and this toon ,because losing 75% of arenas and BGs sucks. I quit playing altogether, but came back on a scroll so my friend could get a mount. When my two months is done, so am I.

Back to TOR

May the force be with you...always
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