The Decline and Fall of Warlocks in Cataclysm

100 Blood Elf Warlock
11975
Also, I'm laughing at your opinions on mages. Warlocks having better survivability than mages? lol, you should write comedy sketches because that's a joke.


Honestly, a pro lock versus a pro mage, the lock will win. A mage as a few CD, and blink in his rotation, but that's about it. I personally never lose against a mage.
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84 Human Warlock
1505
Unlike most of the wrath-babies here... I started my lock toward the end of vanilla, and leveled her very slowly and casually through mid-bc. Began raiding mid-bc and raided through end-bc.

I loved the way my lock played back in vanilla/bc. The dots actually did something without having to babysit them. You didn't have to pretend to be a mage. You did your questing and killing by sucking the life force from your foes. You were evil and vampiric, and the playstyle was fun and uniqe.

Then a bunch of whiners who were used to locks being free HKs in pvp banded together and spammed the forums. Granted in the beginning our dots WERE too powerful, but by the end of the xpac they were in line. Still, this wasn't enough for these whiny little (explative deleted)s. In pvp most melee classes had more than enough back then to paste a warlock, and a good healer knew how to dispel and counter them, but bads continued to shry and scream, even though by then warriors were by FAR more overpowered than locks ever were, and when all was said and done we got our dots cut in half, freaking haunt, and our drains cut to 1/4.

Frankly, I'd rather have had UA's explosion removed so our dots would separate good players who knew where the dispel key was from terribads than have the dots and drains that made the class what it was GUTTED.

I have to say haunt was the worst thing to happen to the spec. Blizzard took a smooth, synergistic toolkit of dots and regen mechanics, destroyed them, and lumped most of their utility into a cooldown, hard-casted spell.
Worst of all, the spell did not last long enough to actually boost all your dots until months after wrath's launch! So when I tried a dummy after 3.0 dropped, and spent 3 hours afterward untangling my fingers (4 more dots to refresh back then), then tried to aoe farm like I used to and ended up a smudge on the rock, I decided i'd take the LESS stressful role of healing during wrath. (as a holy priest I utterly embarrassed resto druids that whole xpac)

Every major patch and expansion I had hoped I'd see a return to what warlocks actually should be, but every patch they continue to make them more and more of a mage wanna-be.

Ramp-up was already a slight issue during BC, but in LK we saw it become a concern, and now in cataclysm it's outright catastrophic.

While the mage gets off 2 fireballs and a hot-streak pyroblast (which, btw, hits as hard as soul fire CRITS AND PROCS 20X AS OFTEN), destruction is still just "setting up".

In the beta, affliction is now hobbled not only by haunt, but MG. It has gone from the most mobile and unique class in pve to the most stationary and fragile, having to cast bolts AND stand and channel. I think it's the ultimate insult that spriests have more powerful baseline dots than affliction.

To me the archetype of the warlock will always be one that scoffs at the concept of mage escapes, that dots 4 mobs and laughs while sucking the life from them. That uses siphon and drain life as active mitigation in pvp. Until I see warlocks back along this malefic path I'll consider them a lost class.
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^^ Agree. I may not be an arena master or the best BGs player, but i have been playing on and off since early Classic. IMO, Wrath ruined us, if you were to quit in mid TBC (as i had to) and come back at end of wrath, the class is almost unrecognizable. Talents changed, glyphs changed, spells changed and some that were so useful in TBC were removed so you HAD to get wrath exp to get get that spell... and once you do, its worthless unless you are Affiction. I am just glad i didnt pay money for Wrath or Cata. A guildie did for me because i bring alot of support to the guild chat. But, its only my friends in game that are keeping me here now, not the classes. Especially not this one!
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1 Orc Warlock
0
Unlike most of the wrath-babies here... I started my lock toward the end of vanilla, and leveled her very slowly and casually through mid-bc. Began raiding mid-bc and raided through end-bc.
Oh cool!? ME TOO!!!!! Seriously, this gives you no basis for an actual argument that warlocks are terrible in pvp. The ONLY thing I do agree with you about is the fact that affliction is not a good single target dps in pvp and used to be one. I liked it as well but hey, blizzard does what they feel the class should be.

04/24/2012 03:09 AMPosted by Yuzuha
Ramp-up was already a slight issue during BC, but in LK we saw it become a concern, and now in cataclysm it's outright catastrophic.
I'm sorry do you mean casting Immolate then chaosbolt/conflag for 80% of someones health? Yeah, so much ramp-up time...

To me the archetype of the warlock will always be one that scoffs at the concept of mage escapes, that dots 4 mobs and laughs while sucking the life from them. That uses siphon and drain life as active mitigation in pvp.
That is still the pvp model, the problem is you hate having to rely on a team to do your damage and think it is "unfair" that you cannot do as much single target damage as everyone else in pvp. Do you understand that affliction would be overpowered as hell if we went with the model that you are proposing? The ability to dot up multiple people, and have those dots by themselves take the target to around 30%? It would be season 8 all over again.
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49 Tauren Paladin
6470
04/23/2012 10:51 PMPosted by Sathrago
If you were right and I was wrong, there would be many more active Warlocks.
No, it doesn't matter if warlocks are the best class in the game or the worst. The look, feel, and background story are enough to deter most players just starting the game. Warlocks have ALWAYS had low population numbers.

Also, where are these people that agree with you? are ANY of them 2.2k or higher? Give me statistics, back up your argument. If you're really gonna start this flaming crap you better start backing up your stuff.
Also, I'm laughing at your opinions on mages. Warlocks having better survivability than mages? lol, you should write comedy sketches because that's a joke.
It's not an opinion it's a fact. Find one mage thats above 2.2k that says differently, don't worry I'll wait.


I could give two dumps about arena rating. That is such a small part of the game that most players do not even participate in. Just because there is a spot in arena for fear bots doesn't mean the class isn't broken. I know you probably love Locks and feel passionate about the class, but they are in a bad place. Mages are much better designed and aren't dependent on others to get by in the game. Warlocks are trash this expansion. That is a fact.
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49 Tauren Paladin
6470
04/23/2012 10:52 PMPosted by Baalsamael
Also, I'm laughing at your opinions on mages. Warlocks having better survivability than mages? lol, you should write comedy sketches because that's a joke.


Honestly, a pro lock versus a pro mage, the lock will win. A mage as a few CD, and blink in his rotation, but that's about it. I personally never lose against a mage.


Tell me how warlocks have better survivability than mages against DKs, rogues, Warriors, pallies, etc.....?
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49 Tauren Paladin
6470
Unlike most of the wrath-babies here... I started my lock toward the end of vanilla, and leveled her very slowly and casually through mid-bc. Began raiding mid-bc and raided through end-bc.

I loved the way my lock played back in vanilla/bc. The dots actually did something without having to babysit them. You didn't have to pretend to be a mage. You did your questing and killing by sucking the life force from your foes. You were evil and vampiric, and the playstyle was fun and uniqe.

Then a bunch of whiners who were used to locks being free HKs in pvp banded together and spammed the forums. Granted in the beginning our dots WERE too powerful, but by the end of the xpac they were in line. Still, this wasn't enough for these whiny little (explative deleted)s. In pvp most melee classes had more than enough back then to paste a warlock, and a good healer knew how to dispel and counter them, but bads continued to shry and scream, even though by then warriors were by FAR more overpowered than locks ever were, and when all was said and done we got our dots cut in half, freaking haunt, and our drains cut to 1/4.

Ramp-up was already a slight issue during BC, but in LK we saw it become a concern, and now in cataclysm it's outright catastrophic. While the mage gets off 2 fireballs and a hot-streak pyroblast (which, btw, hits as hard as soul fire CRITS AND PROCS 20X AS OFTEN), destruction is still just "setting up".


Great post. I agree with everything you said. I honestly can't see how any Warlock that has played the class since BC could be happy with the current state of Locks. DoTs are a joke now. Fire mages do fire spells better than destro locks. You have to activate a 45 sec cool down to get an instant Soul Fire or get lucky to have an imp proc an instant Soul Fire that rarely happens, yet fire mages get instant pyros all the time by running around spamming scorch. Yet everything is fine to some lol.

I agree with the what you said about people crying about Locks. It resulted in Blizzard gimping the heck out of them in Cata to appease the Lock haters. I just don't understand why it takes Blizzard so long to correct things like this. The expansion is almost over and Locks are still gimped as ever. I am happy to hear that they are focusing a lot on Locks in MoP. I really hope they listen to feed back and don't listen to fear bots in arena who think everything is fine.

I just hope that Blizzard brings them back to a respectable class.
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49 Tauren Paladin
6470
04/24/2012 05:19 AMPosted by Winnowont
^^ Agree. I may not be an arena master or the best BGs player, but i have been playing on and off since early Classic. IMO, Wrath ruined us, if you were to quit in mid TBC (as i had to) and come back at end of wrath, the class is almost unrecognizable. Talents changed, glyphs changed, spells changed and some that were so useful in TBC were removed so you HAD to get wrath exp to get get that spell... and once you do, its worthless unless you are Affiction. I am just glad i didnt pay money for Wrath or Cata. A guildie did for me because i bring alot of support to the guild chat. But, its only my friends in game that are keeping me here now, not the classes. Especially not this one!


I understand where you are coming from. BC was where it was at for Locks. That said, I think Wrath was much better than Cata. At least in Wrath, destro was strong and deadly. A chaos bolt/conflag combo hit like a nuclear bomb. In Cata, all the specs suck, with the exception of finding a gimmick spot in arena.
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1 Orc Warlock
0
04/24/2012 08:03 AMPosted by Khargrim
I could give two dumps about arena rating.
That's why you have no clue how good warlocks can be.
04/24/2012 08:03 AMPosted by Khargrim
That is such a small part of the game that most players do not even participate in.
Pvp in general is a SMALL part of the game. It is a border-line after-thought for blizzard. Would you like to point me to a statistic that proves me wrong? Are warlocks bad in bgs? Are warlocks bad in duels???
04/24/2012 08:03 AMPosted by Khargrim
Just because there is a spot in arena for fear bots doesn't mean the class isn't broken.
Warlocks are great in bgs too, prove me wrong if you disagree.
You have to activate a 45 sec cool down to get an instant Soul Fire or get lucky to have an imp proc an instant Soul Fire that rarely happens, yet fire mages get instant pyros all the time by running around spamming scorch. Yet everything is fine to some lol.
Add me on real Id. I want to know how good you actually are. We will do a war game and 1v1 each other. I will play destruction and you can play any class/spec you want (excluding a healer). I suggest you play a rogue or unholy dk if you want any chance of beating me. If I lose I will make a character on your server and make you 10kg. If you lose you will shut up and admit that warlocks are fine right now.

clark.adam56@yahoo.com, Ill be waiting for your request tonight.

04/24/2012 08:03 AMPosted by Khargrim
Mages are much better designed and aren't dependent on others to get by in the game.
A mage requires an affliction warlock in high end pvp to keep the other team from dispelling his moves. A mage requires another class to peel for them almost the entire game if the other team knows how to play. In every scenario we beat mages 1v1. If you are having problems with mages I would suggest you go and practice dueling them until you get it right. They aren't very good vs warlocks in any spec.
Edited by Sathrago on 4/24/2012 8:43 AM PDT
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90 Human Warlock
8990
From my little pvp experiance, I would have to agree with Sath on the mage point, at least 1v1 in a random. I have trouble with a lot of classes, but generally mages and hunters I can win.
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49 Tauren Paladin
6470
I could give two dumps about arena rating.
That's why you have no clue how good warlocks can be.
That is such a small part of the game that most players do not even participate in.
Pvp in general is a SMALL part of the game. It is a border-line after-thought for blizzard. Would you like to point me to a statistic that proves me wrong? Are warlocks bad in bgs? Are warlocks bad in duels???
Just because there is a spot in arena for fear bots doesn't mean the class isn't broken.
Warlocks are great in bgs too, prove me wrong if you disagree.
You have to activate a 45 sec cool down to get an instant Soul Fire or get lucky to have an imp proc an instant Soul Fire that rarely happens, yet fire mages get instant pyros all the time by running around spamming scorch. Yet everything is fine to some lol.
Add me on real Id. I want to know how good you actually are. We will do a war game and 1v1 each other. I will play destruction and you can play any class/spec you want (excluding a healer). I suggest you play a rogue or unholy dk if you want any chance of beating me. If I lose I will make a character on your server and make you 10kg. If you lose you will shut up and admit that warlocks are fine right now.

..........6@yahoo.com, Ill be waiting for your request tonight.

04/24/2012 08:03 AMPosted by Khargrim
Mages are much better designed and aren't dependent on others to get by in the game.
A mage requires an affliction warlock in high end pvp to keep the other team from dispelling his moves. A mage requires another class to peel for them almost the entire game if the other team knows how to play. In every scenario we beat mages 1v1. If you are having problems with mages I would suggest you go and practice dueling them until you get it right. They aren't very good vs warlocks in any spec.


Add you to real ID? Yet you hide behind your lvl 1 alt? Also, no offense. You don't seem very bright if you are posting your email on the forums. You should edit that. I like how you added healers too, where I could simply remove immo and kill your entire dps.
Edited by Khargrim on 4/24/2012 8:55 AM PDT
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1 Orc Warlock
0
Add you to real ID? Yet you hide behind your lvl 1 alt? Also, no offense. You don't seem very bright if you are posting your email on the forums. You should edit that.
I'm confident with what I posted. Here's my main that I cannot post on the forums with.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/anvilmar/Sathrago/simple

I like how you added healers too, where I could simply remove immo and kill your entire dps.


It's not a fight of who can heal better than who. I would also like to mention that I highly doubt if you were playing a holy paladin you would last more than a minute vs me because you clearly have no idea how to work the current destruction warlock.
Edited by Sathrago on 4/24/2012 8:59 AM PDT
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49 Tauren Paladin
6470
04/24/2012 08:56 AMPosted by Sathrago
Add you to real ID? Yet you hide behind your lvl 1 alt? Also, no offense. You don't seem very bright if you are posting your email on the forums. You should edit that.
I'm confident with what I posted. Here's my main that I cannot post on the forums with.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/anvilmar/Sathrago/simple

I like how you added healers too, where I could simply remove immo and kill your entire dps.


It's not a fight of who can heal better than who. I would also like to mention that I highly doubt if you were playing a holy paladin you would last more than a minute vs me because you clearly have no idea how to work the current destruction warlock.


So you're saying removing immo doesn't effect your damage?
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1 Orc Warlock
0
04/24/2012 09:06 AMPosted by Khargrim
So you're saying removing immo doesn't effect your damage?
I'm saying it doesn't matter how hard a paladin trys to dispel it. Their cced everytime i pull of a conflag, re-applying immolate while they are feared is hard yo.
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85 Blood Elf Warlock
3130
I took a 8 month break from wow. lock is my first class and first love in wow now i hate i ever came back.
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90 Human Warlock
13860
I like how the same people who say ratings and rankings aren't valid for an argument use anecdotal evidence to try to prove their point. Raiders don't say x class is bad because it seems worse or is harder to play this expansion. They look at numbers. Sims, actual logs, performance benchmarks. When comparing anything, any quantitative evidence you have is valuable. The best baseball players consistently put up the best statistics. That's what RBG and arena ratings are too - statistics and performance benchmarks. So you can't dismiss them because, unless you can show otherwise, all you have is a minority opinion that feels like locks are bad in PvP because they probably still have no idea how to not suck.

There's a reason you're not posting on an 85 Khargrim. I don't blame you either, man.
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1 Orc Warlock
0
i agree with khargrim. and i have all the pvp ratings and stats you're talking about simplexity.

ps. nice xmog Simplexity

pps. Im still better than sathrafail at every aspect of this game. gg kiddo.


http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/illidan/Lukenukem/achievement#95:165
2.2k in 2s two years ago.

2k in 3s. two years ago.

You have no actual achievements, or teams for that matter right now that gives you any proof of how warlocks are right now.
Edited by Sathrago on 4/24/2012 11:04 AM PDT
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90 Human Warlock
13860
You guys should get a room
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