Problems within our guild

90 Draenei Paladin
6160
I am experience a number of problems within the guild that I lead.

(1) There are a few key players and good friends that are men who just can't seem to think clearly and logically in the presence of a female voice. So one particular female - a personal friend for whom I've purchased and set up her computer - is interfering with guild function. For example, we decided to make a quick run to Obsidian Sanctum to allow some guild members to roll on the Black Drake Mount. She was having sound issues. But, I couldn't get a word in on the vent server - for which I also pay - on how she could fix it. To make a long story short, an event that should have take all of 15 min turned into a 2 hour ordeal. I gave up and left and the these two male friends considered me as having done something horrible for having given up and left. I should have muted everyone in vent.

These are three very good players that are dependable, but I also run a business and can't spend two hours on something like this.

(2) I have to personally participate to complete any guild challenge - be it dungeon runs or a raid. My officers don't seem to understand that they are supposed to lead something or do anything. If I take two days off, I return to find that absolutely nothing has happened for the good of the guild.

(3) No matter how I recruit, players will look sincere, act sincere, and really seem interested in raiding. But, when it comes time to raid, they don't show up. They just don't show up. My feelings is to announce to everyone that we will not lead a raid until members decide it's worth enough to show up. I personally can raid with other groups.

(4) Recruiting good players that turn out to be bad people. They join the guild, take what they can, and then leave (a.k.a. desertion). Then they diss our guild saying that we can't raid which makes it even harder to recruit. This also includes those who bring their drama with them. These guys have to go but every time we get one in, it interferes with our raid progression.

(5) Finally and I think this is true across the entire spectrum of players on all realms is that an overwhelming majority seems to want everything to be easy. They won't do the work required and they will only join a guild that has already done 8/8 heroic DS. What can you do?
Edited by Holanya on 3/27/2012 10:20 AM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Paladin
6160
Quick update. One of the two men has left with their alts. There is a pattern that repeats itself here with players that can't actually stay with one guild for more than a few months.
Edited by Holanya on 3/27/2012 11:05 AM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Priest
9610
Please remove the players names as I believe it is against the ToS for Blizzard.
.
Unfortunately those are the same problems that plague every guild right now. How have you been marketing your recruiting? Please post an example and maybe we can try to help with additional perspective.
Edited by Symantha on 3/27/2012 10:56 AM PDT
Reply Quote
85 Human Death Knight
6970
I cannot give you a definitive cure-all answer, but I will address each of your case scenarios and how you could have fixed it to avoid headaches.

1) Vent not working: If after you spent 5 mins or so helping one person with her Vent setting and it is still not working - leave it alone, its just one person and not worth the hassle. Focus on your main goal, which is to run a quick OS for mount. Even if your whole Vent server was down, its still NOT a big deal. Raids have been done via typing, regardless of the difficulty. If you had done this, you would not have been distracted and delayed for TWO hours on fixing something that could have done outside of game-time.

2) This happens to everyone & every guild. You must avoid the illusion that meeting the Guild challenges is for the "benefit of the guild", which it is. Instead, you need to go about it from another angle: It is far BETTER to run dungeons and raid with guildies than PUGs.

This is what I do, "Hey guys, I'm about to do my random, anyone up for a heroic with me? Anyone, anybody, somebody? I can't run it alone, I rather have guildies with me than PUGs"

You must realize ppl are generally shy or easily embarrassed or frustrated when nobody respond to them in guild chat. They would ask once a upon a time, and if they don't get immediate response, they will never ask again and rather solo queue on their own. MAKE your guildies understand -- running dungeons/raids with Guildies > running with PUGs > queuing on your own.

3) This also happens to any guilds & all of us who lead raids, you're frustrated and I totally understand, the feeling is mutual. The way I went about it is simply get hold of guildies that are good players, or have shown willingness to gear up on their own, or seem to know their class well ( run dungeons with them long enough, and you will know what I mean ); and then fill out the rest with PUGs. If your raid is successful enough (one-shotting Bosses with ease), ppl with come out of the corners to join you without active recruitment.

Its not as easy as it sounds, but I hope you understand the gist of it.

4) Again, that happens to all of us. My only suggestion, remove your personal feelings and attachment from it. After all this time, I simply say to myself, "Ah to heck with it, I LOVE drama, I'm just going to watch how it unfolds like a soap opera."

The bottom line is -- gkick, and never explain yourself. Don't go down the path of involving yourself in the drama, "You see guys, I kicked him because ... and I don't want ..." It starts arguments.

5) I have no answer to that. Do what you consider is fun. I am still playing because I enjoy the company of my raiders and I want the shiny loot. If I don't get the latter, I still have the former. If neither is true, time to move on.
Reply Quote
85 Draenei Paladin
8340
Well, to address the points in turn.

1. When an event is scheduled, you are expected to have what is needed to complete that event (whether gear, gems, enchants, reforges, addons, vent), prior to the start of the event. We form up 15min prior to start time. You have those 15min to get your issue fixed. After that point, if you are not ready, we fill your spot and go. We'll catch you next time around.

2. I ask my officers to lead something (anything!) each month that is a guild event. Whether a raid, a dungeon, an achieve or just something silly that guild members can participate in. I may give some slack if someones work schedule is suddenly hectic for a month or two. But after that point if things haven't slowed down, then they just don't have time to fill the role and will be demoted. When their schedule changes again, and if we need another officer at that point, promotion back to that rank is always possible. If completing the guild challenges is important to you, then ask each officer to complete 1 guild group run a week so you finish that challenge weekly. Raid is harder if you don't have a raid group going. But a Tuesday night guild BH run usually isn't that hard to do and if needed you can ask your officers to rotate putting one together.

I really don't have much input for you on 3-5. Finding dedicated drama-free raiders is always rough. We're a more casual guild with a lot of non-raiding members. Many of who think they would like to raid. I've set minimal requirements and won't consider adding any guild members to raid groups until those requirments are met. They have to meet the required item level, be glyphed, gemmed, enchanted and reforged in a manner consistend with their class and spec. At that point I'll start bringing them to pug spots in my group (4/8 reg and we do alot of teaching in there). I ask in advance of the raid day and invite them to the calendar event. If they accept and then pull a no-show, I'll talk to them the 1st time. But if it happens again without good reason they'll be off my pug list until they can show better attendance. I move people out to the other raid groups when they are ready and we have spots. And I'll do open sign-up events if we start having alot of DS-ready toons not in current groups. On the bright side for our other raid groups, going through all this means I know who's correctly geared and reliable in guild when replacements are needed for our more progressive groups.
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Paladin
6160
Thank you Symantha. I removed the names as quickly as I could with my memory hog of Firefox running. Switched to Chrome.

I would like to discuss recruiting methods. Otherwise, I'm just going to disband the guild and quit the game. It's just a game.
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Paladin
6160
Thanks for the posts so far, I look forward to reading them more when I have the time.

As for the Obsidian Run Alkesine, I did exactly as you suggested. I dropped into raid chat and explained that we did not need vent and we did not even need game sounds to complete the raids. I explained that the raid should only take a few minutes and there was no point wasting an hour repairing sound issues. This brought even more complaints in Vent.

I was on my mage, so I even went out and pulled groups and ran them to those standing at the entrance - of course dying during the process ;) This brought even more complaints in Vent. So I left.

I agree that I need to tune recruiting methods. I'm working on a Joomla website with a forum and trying to draft just the correct messages to post whether it be here in the forums, on our website, in Vent MOTD, or an occasional trade broadcast. Don't get me wrong, I want to participate and have since Ultima Online Beta. But this is getting ridiculous.
Reply Quote
90 Troll Shaman
7735
I get the feeling that there's more going on that's at the root of your issues, so I'll ask you some questions of my own.

1. How consistent is your guild? Do you have raid days set? When events are set up, are they followed through? Are there policies that are always upheld? Do your guild members understand what is expected of them? Do your officers?

2a. What is the purpose of your guild? Do you recruit along that purpose, or do you promise things you can't back up? Where do you recruit? Do you accept anyone, or are there requirements that must be met before the recruits can join?

2b. Do you have a recruit period of time for new people in the guild? Talk is cheap. In return for getting an invite, we expect performance out of our recruits. Too often people apply without logs, in which case their two week trial period is our way of seeing what kind of people they are, what kind of players they are, and how they interact with current members. If they don't work out, they become members and unless they are jerks they're welcome to stay there for as long as they want, but they won't be on the raiding roster.

3. What is the purpose of leadership within your guild? What are your goals, and how do you and your officers fit into fulfilling them? Have you ever talked to your officers about that? Do they understand what you want out of them?Aaaand directly to your last point:

Yes and no. I've seen players 1/8H ask to join a guild at least 5/8H or 6/8H as a minimum requirement (and, sadly enough, get offers from said guilds). I've had a player app to our guild who then joined a guild 4 progression bosses behind us (she wanted more of a social group). It can certainly seem like everyone is aiming to treat you like a doormat, but there are good people who are also good players out there. It's really rough when you're still trying to get your guild cemented, and it will be an uphill battle, but it is possible.

Make sure your officers are able and willing to help you. Make sure your guild members are all on the same page with your vision of the guild. It sounds like people aren't all on the same page.
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Warrior
11075
I am experience a number of problems within the guild that I lead.

(1) There are a few key players and good friends that are men who just can't seem to think clearly and logically in the presence of a female voice. So one particular female - a personal friend for whom I've purchased and set up her computer - is interfering with guild function. For example, we decided to make a quick run to Obsidian Sanctum to allow some guild members to roll on the Black Drake Mount. She was having sound issues. But, I couldn't get a word in on the vent server - for which I also pay - on how she could fix it. To make a long story short, an event that should have take all of 15 min turned into a 2 hour ordeal. I gave up and left and the these two male friends considered me as having done something horrible for having given up and left. I should have muted everyone in vent.

These are three very good players that are dependable, but I also run a business and can't spend two hours on something like this.

I agree with the other that during an event, only a few minutes should be spent trying to fix something like this. BUT if your guild members are behaving the way you say they are while you're trying to do so, mute them, kick them from the server, etc. Leaving like you did let them win, you need to step up as a guild leader and enforce some level of discipline.

(2) I have to personally participate to complete any guild challenge - be it dungeon runs or a raid. My officers don't seem to understand that they are supposed to lead something or do anything. If I take two days off, I return to find that absolutely nothing has happened for the good of the guild.

Why are they your officers? If they're not doing anything officery, tell them what you want them to do. If they don't do it demote them and get ones that will do what you ask.

(3) No matter how I recruit, players will look sincere, act sincere, and really seem interested in raiding. But, when it comes time to raid, they don't show up. They just don't show up. My feelings is to announce to everyone that we will not lead a raid until members decide it's worth enough to show up. I personally can raid with other groups.

This is pretty much state of the game right now. I really have no help for that other than to say to continue to recruit.


(4) Recruiting good players that turn out to be bad people. They join the guild, take what they can, and then leave (a.k.a. desertion). Then they diss our guild saying that we can't raid which makes it even harder to recruit. This also includes those who bring their drama with them. These guys have to go but every time we get one in, it interferes with our raid progression.

Same answer as above unfortunately.

(5) Finally and I think this is true across the entire spectrum of players on all realms is that an overwhelming majority seems to want everything to be easy. They won't do the work required and they will only join a guild that has already done 8/8 heroic DS. What can you do?

Same answer as above unfortunately.
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Paladin
6160
I'll try to answer a few of your questions. First of all, I inherited the guild back when it was around lvl 7 after the founder quit the game. I have always been 100% committed to making our member's gaming experience as enjoyable as possible. The guild grew, I started raiding, but members that hit 85 left simply because they wanted the perks of a lvl 25. We had our own share of players that wanted raiding to be easy and basically gifted to them.

During the process of growing the guild and getting achievements for things like feasts and cauldrons, I have recruited players in person for the most part. Mainly these are folks that I have raided with while answering trade requests for players. Having a Tank, Healer, and Mage allows me to get in my share of raids.

We did set a regular core progression. Since the server is US CST, I chose a time that allowed players across the country a chance to participate. Our main progression is 8pm to 11pm CST, Tue, Wed, Thur, with alt runs on the weekends - scheduled as events. I have stated clearly to my officers what I expect of them. I demote those who aren't fulfilling that role only after I have discussed the matter with them. I have stated clearly that our raid ends at 11pm since players need to work or go to school in the morning. I also invite members of other guilds to our events to hopefully fill all of the spots beforehand.

Overall, I see the guild as a place where people can have fun and level their toons but I have also set a clear core raid progression and am committed to that aspect. I am even interested in arenas but that will be addressed when the time is right. However, I have removed events for this week as I need to take a step back, for one, and we don't have players that will show up anyway.

I have made my share of mistakes along the way for sure. However, I state my policies as clearly and concise as possible when I can get a word in. Unfortunately one of the friends that left assumed things would just fall into place without having stated things clearly and they had no patience that I would reiterate that policy at the beginning of a raid - especially needed when there were new participants.

Part of the problem, from my perspective is the very limited amount of room allowed on the guild info tab to actually set any clear policy or set of rules.
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Warrior
11075
So no website? Get one, you can get a decent free sites through Enjin.com Wowstead.com and many other places. They're generally easy to set up.

You really NEED to have your expectations in writing somewhere.
Reply Quote
90 Troll Shaman
7735
I have always been 100% committed to making our member's gaming experience as enjoyable as possible.


So, your guild focus is primarily raiding? Or are there other aspects you're having to juggle?

Our main progression is 8pm to 11pm CST, Tue, Wed, Thur, with alt runs on the weekends - scheduled as events.


When you recruit, do you use some sort of app form where you ask the question 'We raid on these days and times, can you make these raids?'

have stated clearly to my officers what I expect of them. I demote those who aren't fulfilling that role only after I have discussed the matter with them.


I am very disappointed in your officers, then. In my guild we don't particularly have assigned roles for officers, but myself and the other officer take the bulk of the work because the guild leader gets the fun task of being the ultimate decision maker (honestly I think that's the most stressful part of being a guild leader, but that's just me). I handle the majority of recruitment, healing coordination, raid prep, and outside-raid events. The other officer handles dps checks/coordination, morale on bad raid nights, occasional recruitment, some raid leading and keeps the rest of us sane and level headed (even if he does nothing else, I think I appreciate him most for this). The guild leader dabbles in everything along with making sure the tanks are up to par.

So for your officers to not lift a finger. . .ugh. Get rid of them all. My only other suggestion is to ask them what they want to handle. Is there anyone in your guild who does stuff without being asked? Might want to consider them for officerhood.

Unfortunately one of the friends that left assumed things would just fall into place without having stated things clearly and they had no patience that I would reiterate that policy at the beginning of a raid


It is important that people understand the rules, but too people don't like repeat information.

Part of the problem, from my perspective is the very limited amount of room allowed on the guild info tab to actually set any clear policy or set of rules.


You, sir or madam, need a website. Need. If recruits don't have the dedication to go to your website, read the policies, and put in a proper app with proper spec, enchants, glyphs and stat priorities then likely they're going to be flakes.

On another hand, how do your raids go? If the raid is full, how long does it take to start? How long between pulls? Do you have a good raid leader? Do you have someone to make sure all buffs are good (I use a combination of this http://www.curse.com/addons/wow/raidbuffstatus and this http://www.curse.com/addons/wow/utopia because yes, I am both lazy and forgetful) before pulls?

How is the attitude during pulls? Are people happy? Are they being yelled at or browbeaten by someone? Do they research fights before the first pull?

Again a website will help with the latter. We have threads in ours that we post strats or whatever else anyone can find. I generally pull the most because that's part of what I do as an officer, but member contribution to those threads has been invaluable.

And perhaps the most important question: does the core of your guild want to raid at the same level you do? If they say they do, do they put in the effort (class research, glyphs, enchants, etc).

It's possible you may need to reboot your guild, and bill it as a new raiding group just getting off the ground. Recruit from realm and, guild recruitment forums. MAKE EVERY LAST PERSON INTERESTED APPLY. Create rank division in guild. Anyone below your standards drop a rank and try to recruit over them.

:| I hope your situation improves.
Edited by Dakeea on 3/27/2012 2:38 PM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Paladin
6160
I would like to thank everyone who took the time to read and respond to my post. I shouldn't do too many posts due to the character limit so will respond to those that may need further clarification.


2) This happens to everyone & every guild. You must avoid the illusion that meeting the Guild challenges is for the "benefit of the guild", which it is. Instead, you need to go about it from another angle: It is far BETTER to run dungeons and raid with guildies than PUGs.

This is what I do, "Hey guys, I'm about to do my random, anyone up for a heroic with me? Anyone, anybody, somebody? I can't run it alone, I rather have guildies with me than PUGs"

You must realize ppl are generally shy or easily embarrassed or frustrated when nobody respond to them in guild chat. They would ask once a upon a time, and if they don't get immediate response, they will never ask again and rather solo queue on their own. MAKE your guildies understand -- running dungeons/raids with Guildies > running with PUGs > queuing on your own.


Some good points. I do as you suggest but I still expect my officers to do the same. Yes, people are shy and it takes some time for them to come out of their shell.


3) This also happens to any guilds & all of us who lead raids, you're frustrated and I totally understand, the feeling is mutual. The way I went about it is simply get hold of guildies that are good players, or have shown willingness to gear up on their own, or seem to know their class well ( run dungeons with them long enough, and you will know what I mean ); and then fill out the rest with PUGs. If your raid is successful enough (one-shotting Bosses with ease), ppl with come out of the corners to join you without active recruitment.

Its not as easy as it sounds, but I hope you understand the gist of it.


Agreed. Having reached lvl 25 doesn't hurt either. I've had request from those outside the guild to reschedule DS 10. We did one-shot the first four bosses but had dps leave before Ultraxion. I called the raid and told everyone that I didn't expect them to wait around. I will not push anyone to join that is already in another guild. But, one has to suspect a lvl 85 that is without a guild.


4) Again, that happens to all of us. My only suggestion, remove your personal feelings and attachment from it. After all this time, I simply say to myself, "Ah to heck with it, I LOVE drama, I'm just going to watch how it unfolds like a soap opera."

The bottom line is -- gkick, and never explain yourself. Don't go down the path of involving yourself in the drama, "You see guys, I kicked him because ... and I don't want ..." It starts arguments.


Yeah, you mentioned a mistake I make. Trying to explain why someone left or I had to kick them. I like what you are saying and I see that one needs to rise above the muck.
Edited by Holanya on 3/28/2012 7:54 AM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Paladin
6160

I agree with the other that during an event, only a few minutes should be spent trying to fix something like this. BUT if your guild members are behaving the way you say they are while you're trying to do so, mute them, kick them from the server, etc. Leaving like you did let them win, you need to step up as a guild leader and enforce some level of discipline.


I see and understand what you are saying. Although the Obsidian run is a bad example for this. I didn't even want to go, it was not a scheduled event, and I was not leading it, but decided to tag along and help. It seemed more appropriate to explain that I needed to leave and then talk to the officers later. The officer was not happy and left. The person that instigated the run by requesting help left also. They were part of a cliche that was bound to be a problem eventually. The other officer is still around. The RL friend supports our efforts 100% and I have promoted her as she likes to help out "the kids" (lower levels) as she calls it. They, in turn, tend to call her the guild mother.


Why are they your officers? If they're not doing anything officery, tell them what you want them to do. If they don't do it demote them and get ones that will do what you ask.


I should clarify something about our officers. Even though they are not proactive, they are responsible, and people I trust at least to handle situations and relay information to me. They are officers for that reason.


So, your guild focus is primarily raiding? Or are there other aspects you're having to juggle?
...
I am very disappointed in your officers, then. In my guild we don't particularly have assigned roles for officers, but myself and the other officer take the bulk of the work because the guild leader gets the fun task of being the ultimate decision maker (honestly I think that's the most stressful part of being a guild leader, but that's just me).


This turns out to be a bit of an under-statement, I have found myself numerous times acting as Guild Leader, Treasurer, Raid Leader, and the one to help members gear up and level all at the same time. We've been scheduling raids for about 6-8 weeks now and the flaws/miscommunication mostly, are all getting revealed. That being said, I must again clarify we have some really great people and a majority of those in the guild are a treasure to have around.

Yes, making the tough decisions is most stressful. It doesn't help to have an officer who will over-rule my decisions just because someone is female. So, in retrospect, it is good that he left.


You, sir or madam, need a website. Need. If recruits don't have the dedication to go to your website, read the policies, and put in a proper app with proper spec, enchants, glyphs and stat priorities then likely they're going to be flakes.


There is irony here as I do web design and development for a living. Have had a domain name for guild going on six months now. But web development that pays takes priority. I'm not a big fan of Joomla or the components that are supposed to handle data feeds that I find not to work well. I have no desire to explore and keep updated the XML schema, JSON, or api that allows news and data from the game. But, I could throw up a quick forum or even develop a wordpress theme. Again, that's just more work as such a forum would need moderation.


On another hand, how do your raids go? If the raid is full, how long does it take to start? How long between pulls? Do you have a good raid leader? Do you have someone to make sure all buffs are good (I use a combination of this http://www.curse.com/addons/wow/raidbuffstatus and this http://www.curse.com/addons/wow/utopia because yes, I am both lazy and forgetful) before pulls?


The pulls are fine but unfortunately, all those tasks are on me. It takes awhile to get started due to folks not showing up.


How is the attitude during pulls? Are people happy? Are they being yelled at or browbeaten by someone? Do they research fights before the first pull?


It didn't take me long to kick the raid leader that was doing the yelling and brow-beating.

Again, thank you all for the suggestions.
Reply Quote
90 Troll Shaman
7735
I should clarify something about our officers. Even though they are not proactive, they are responsible, and people I trust at least to handle situations and relay information to me. They are officers for that reason.


I'm going to be blunt with you -- so what they're responsible? If they are not pulling their weight as officers, then they are not officers. They are reliable players you sometimes ask to help. We've got plenty of responsible, reliable players in our guild, but they're not all officers. Our guild leader chose myself and our other officer because in addition to being reliable we are also willing and able to put in the time and effort to help him run the guild.

You're struggling, and you shouldn't be. The officers are your support system. Without them, you're going to burn out. :(

I have no desire to explore and keep updated the XML schema, JSON, or api that allows news and data from the game. But, I could throw up a quick forum or even develop a wordpress theme. Again, that's just more work as such a forum would need moderation.


I have good news for you! There are lots of people out there who don't know jack spit about actually creating or designing or even adapting code to create a website. The result is that numerous plug-in sites (enjin, guildportal etc) have been developed to make the process quick and easy. Setting it up will take the most time, but it won't be nearly as tedious as building from scratch. Plus they do the updates for you.

No, it's not as polished, pretty or shiny as something you would be capable of creating, but that isn't what you need. What you need is a place to store and share information.

Here's our website: http://www.wipingwithstyle.enjin.com/ I believe the GL paid for the banner, but through this website we have group pay for nifty features, mumble through enjin, easy-to-moderate forums and a fantastic app system. Have I seen better websites? Of course! But the point is, we have a spot where we can share strats, joke around with each other, post if we know we're going to miss a few raid days, organize things, discuss plans between officers etc. If we did not have this website over half the functioning ability to plan for the guild would be gone.

unfortunately, all those tasks are on me.


The fact that you keep stating this tells me your officers aren't up to snuff and should either be given one last chance or replaced. Hell, I even see people recruiting officers in the guild recruitment forums from time to time. Who knows, you might be able to snag a raid leader or whatever if you tried. The first task you could give an officer recruit is to create a website and then hand admin powers over to you! That'll save you some time, eh?

The bottom line is that your officers aren't giving you the help you need, and as a result you're at your wits end in this forum asking for advice because nothing is improving.
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Paladin
6160

The fact that you keep stating this tells me your officers aren't up to snuff and should either be given one last chance or replaced. Hell, I even see people recruiting officers in the guild recruitment forums from time to time. Who knows, you might be able to snag a raid leader or whatever if you tried. The first task you could give an officer recruit is to create a website and then hand admin powers over to you! That'll save you some time, eh?

The bottom line is that your officers aren't giving you the help you need, and as a result you're at your wits end in this forum asking for advice because nothing is improving.


Well, I've tried bringing in raid leaders and officers. Let's see. One stole drops and items from the bank and left along with his bud. He's constantly giving me crap and he finds a way even when I have thought that I have all his alts ignored. He gives me crap because I reported him for running a farming bot.

Another one was the real jerk of a RL who yelled at people and did a lot of brow-beating. Nobody liked him. I recall him telling me that one of his former guilds staged a coup? *rollseyes* My first thought is that I could kick everyone and still have a lvl 25 guild.

And this leads us to one of the officers in question who will have no other title, take no other position that isn't on the core raid team, and has been in four guilds over the past 9 months.

As for my current officers, I have to work with what I have. I do need people with the authority to at least /gkick a trouble-maker in my absence.

At this point, I'm not ready to spend another dime on outside guild organization tools. Seriously, if a game is going to have and support guilds as a core part of the gaming experience, that game should provide the tools to manage said guild. Instead I have to go outside of the game, pay for vent, pay for a website, what else? I already have hosted VM's and there are a lot of capable open source tools.

I did reschedule a DS run this week but it was by request from someone outside the guild. At least there are those in other guilds who appreciate my efforts.
Reply Quote
90 Troll Shaman
7735
Well, I've tried bringing in raid leaders and officers. Let's see. One stole drops and items from the bank and left along with his bud. He's constantly giving me crap and he finds a way even when I have thought that I have all his alts ignored. He gives me crap because I reported him for running a farming bot.


Where are you recruiting them from? Did you use an app to bring them in? Do you have a trial period for them? Who do you market your guild to? Have you ever tried looking for working adults with families and careers?

I keep coming back to these points because I've weeded out people like that through the app process. A little bit ago we decided to try on-realm pvp recruitment for some of our raiders who wanted to pvp. We figured we wouldn't need an app, and just /ginvite based on a brief chat with the guy who volunteered to handle it.

Biggest.
Mistake.
Ever.

We had 3 hack-and-swipe bank yanks within a month, two counts of players complaining to me about players in the guild (at the time I was GL), and one case in which a person from another realm took the time to write me a respectful but firm in game mail about how they had never encountered such a rude and crass person as this individual from my guild.

Through apps we've only had two socially-problematic members. One slowly mutated into an arsemonkey over the course of months until a strongly worded censure from me stopped him from acting out during raid (and, when he realized he wouldn't be catered to he just stopped logging in), the other was a quit-in-the-middle-of-raid type and didn't make it out of his recruitment trial.

So, yeah, that's why I'm such a strong advocate for on and off server recruitment through apps and with a list of policies on your site.

At this point, I'm not ready to spend another dime on outside guild organization tools. Seriously, if a game is going to have and support guilds as a core part of the gaming experience, that game should provide the tools to manage said guild. Instead I have to go outside of the game, pay for vent, pay for a website, what else? I already have hosted VM's and there are a lot of capable open source tools.


We choose to have the pay option. Most sites the pay features are optional. You're the one who said you don't have time to play with the sites that require more elbow grease; I am trying to offer alternatives.

As for my current officers, I have to work with what I have. I do need people with the authority to at least /gkick a trouble-maker in my absence.


And yet you're here stating that your officers as of now are causing you issues, or barring that doing absolutely nothing. From the way you speak I am getting this impression that your guild is full of punks and hooligans.

If all you need someone for is /gkick, make them junior officers until you can find real officers.

03/28/2012 12:30 PMPosted by Holanya
At least there are those in other guilds who appreciate my efforts.


If you really, truly feel that no one in your guild appreciates you or cares about what you're doing, maybe it's time to start from scratch or join another guild yourself. I am not trying to be mean or anything, but I get this feeling like you're tired of the game, tired of people, and frustrated past your eyeballs.

I once, long ago, tried to start a raiding guild with friends. I was the only one willing to put in the time and effort to get/keep raids going, recruit, come up with ideas for guild events, put in the work so that those events went through, and everything else. I struggled with it for about 9 months before I got so fed up and unhappy I finally decided to find a guild off-server and hand the guild over to someone else.

Sure enough, the guild I left folded without me within a few weeks, and dispersed. I, in turn, moved on to other raiding guilds, and eventually wound up within the one I'm in now.
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Shaman
11560
Hola:

You've gotten a lot of good feedback here and yes, we all suffer from these very same things. I've been where you are, am where you are in some aspects and will be there again. You are getting burnt out and need to take steps to keep the game fun for yourself. Perhaps step back from raiding for a few weeks to a month and run some fun guild events like doing lower level raids, guild achievements and/or guild contests.

Find incentives to motivate your members. For instance, we had a guild member make a Vial of Sands and other guild members collect what mats we could with the guild buying the vendor mats; then we had all guild members who participated in raiding roll for it when we completed Bot/Bwd & 4 winds for the guild achieve. They had to have been reliable, participate most of the time and been a member in good standing.

We run lotteries/raffles every month or so with either a prize or 1/2 the cash made going to the winner with the rest going to GB for repairs.

Lastly, you are the GL, you cannot allow any other member to demand you do anything. They cannot demand a rank, to be on a raid team or anything else. They can request but demanding is out of line. Do not be afraid to kick people who are a problem; in the long run the drama, the angst to you and your members and the damage they do is just not worth keeping any one person.

When I get to the point where you are I usually go level a toon on another server for a portion of my week w/o totally abandoning my guild. Join another guild with an alt and see how they run, sometimes it's refreshing .. either because they are awful and you can feel good about what you are doing OR if you are lucky, they are doing something great you can borrow.

Good luck, hang in there,
Gorg
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Paladin
6160
You just had to go and mention Vial of Sands Gorgonos. My original toon is a discipline priest, alchemist, etc and she's been digging for that recipe for many months ;p

But, you have some good ideas. We have a lot of players that are developing their characters and still need gear and experience before being ready to raid. Perhaps it's time to just have some fun activities and shut out the elitists. I am not so ready to give up a lvl 25 guild.

There is a guild on server with whom I really enjoy raiding. Yes, I like to play an atonement build by the books and they appreciate that whereas many only look at raw hps and will kick a discipline priest for not playing as if I could heal effectively playing like a holy priest or a pally. That alt has completed DS 10.

As far as a website is concerned, I'm thinking of an open source tool that is used for small social network type sites. Of course I would have to enforce a strict self-imposed privacy policy.

Using Ventrillo is already a big privacy intrusion since the log gives one enough information to locate the users within a few miles as well as their ISP, etc. Ugh, not a great place for minors to be without supervision.

Again, thank you all for the suggestions. Maybe I'll hop on another realm and play my undead priest and try to figure out why he would heal anything that could be used as food.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]