World of Warcraft®

First of all I do not plan to come here to negatively discuss the glyph of demon hunting or its prior implications or subsequent future limitations...this is a thread with a strong idea and strong support motive...while it may not happen today...maybe not before MoP comes out...and hell, maybe not even for many many many months to come.

This thread is what I hope to be a testament to bring a fourth spec to the warlock class to allow a melee based tanking tree focussed around being a demon. Personally I thought it could have certainly been done with simply a glyph, however it appears the developers believe it requires more than a glyph to make a warlock tank work, now while to me they had their entire toolset there...gearing issue could have been resolved by making spirit scale for dodge or parry aka mitigation priests being the only cloth class that would roll on it doesnt make the competition that bad at all. Regardless blue posts have stated it'd take more than a glyph to make it work and I'm fairly confident they have more experience in this matter than I do.

With that in mind this thread is born. But with more purpose than just a warlock tanking tree, i believe that it could be the dawn of an amazing change to WoW, while it might seem scary at first, and while it WILL bring both positive and negative opinions I believe it could be the start to many classes being able to further tweak their playstyle to taste. Holy caster dps priests, melee based hunters, tanking and even two handed shamans, the list goes on.

I am Soulgrasp, and whether it be soon or many months from now, I support the Demodin. Inspiration for this came from:

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1106923-Warlock-Tanks!-A-dark-rallying-call-to-action./page2

~Soulgrasp.

Give us lock tanks! We want it! That glyph was nothing more than a tease!

A lot of warlocks are going to be running guild groups with them going as tanks.

Either remove the glyph entirely and de-nerf what you just did to the spec

or make it viable.

We don't want gimmick tanking.

There's 10000 lock tank threads on the first page. Please add your drivel to one of them.

There's nothing to be said here that hasn't been explained 100 times b4

Once again I do not support this thread. Just like I do not support it in the mmo thread that is currently being active.

In the mmo thread they called to petition the forums which is against form rules.

I support the notion that we already have a new tank called brewmaster monks. We do not need to jump and throw in two new tanks into the playing field. With there still being a discussion of who is the best tank for raiding and the lack of a need to have multiple tanks in a raid.

Hell if u want a new tank make a shaman one we have some of the mechanics still for waaaaaaay back when but honestly do we need shamans to tank? No, we do not need shamans or locks to tank.

A lot of warlocks are going to be running guild groups with them going as tanks.

Thats gonna be fun.

Please fraps this.

With vent.

Hold it!

Demodin is entirely wrong. The 'din in Tankadin comes from Paladin. You aren't a demonic pally. The proper term should be Protlock because Tanklock just sounds awkward.

Oh, there's one more slight problem.

With all the work to balance Monks in Blizzard will likely not be able to support Protlocks until the expansion "Rise of the Murlocs" at earliest.

Look. With 4 specs balance is not that great and they are adding a 5th in monks. We need to get to the point that we can balance the 5 specs we will have before adding lock tanks.

I say use the glyph give good feedback and try to talk the developers into it for the next expansion cause it WONT happen in MoP.

If Tank balance is good, and the glyph works out locks will have most of the tools they need for a true tank spec and that would be the time to argue for making locks a true tank and giving them a 4th spec.

For now make the most of what you have.

03/29/2012 12:37 PMPosted by Stomination

we do not need shamans or locks to tank.

To use your argument, we don't need Monks to tank. We didn't need Death Knights to tank. Can they? Yes. Are they more awesome because of it? Yes. Give me a valid reason that Warlocks shouldn't have a fourth spec for tanking.

With 4 specs balance is not that great and they are adding a 5th in monks. We need to get to the point that we can balance the 5 specs we will have before adding lock tanks.

I respectfully disagree. We're still in Beta, and not even through the second week for crying out loud. Class balance is still very much in progress and will be until ship ( and for months afterward - just look at how Death Knights went ). If they're gonna go through all that trouble to balance a whole new class, with three whole new specs, against all the other classes and specs out there ( that still need balancing against each other, I might add ), they may as well go ahead and balance Warlock Tanks along with the rest.

There's no reason for them not to. I have yet to see a valid argument explaining why Warlocks shouldn't get a tank spec. The only people who are really opposed to Warlocks having a fourth spec for tanking are people who don't play Warlocks ( or refuse to post from said warlock, therefore negating any credibility their opinion may have ).

03/29/2012 01:47 PMPosted by Derrek

we do not need shamans or locks to tank.

To use your argument, we don't need Monks to tank. We didn't need Death Knights to tank. Can they? Yes. Are they more awesome because of it? Yes. Give me a valid reason that Warlocks shouldn't have a fourth spec for tanking.

With 4 specs balance is not that great and they are adding a 5th in monks. We need to get to the point that we can balance the 5 specs we will have before adding lock tanks.

I respectfully disagree. We're still in Beta, and not even through the second week for crying out loud. Class balance is still very much in progress and will be until ship ( and for months afterward - just look at how Death Knights went ). If they're gonna go through all that trouble to balance a whole new class, with three whole new specs, against all the other classes and specs out there ( that still need balancing against each other, I might add ), they may as well go ahead and balance Warlock Tanks along with the rest.

There's no reason for them not to. I have yet to see a valid argument explaining why Warlocks shouldn't get a tank spec. The only people who are really opposed to Warlocks having a fourth spec for tanking are people who don't play Warlocks ( or refuse to post from said warlock, therefore negating any credibility their opinion may have ).

I agree. Beta is beta. Right now IS the time to do stuff like this. Right now IS the time to make new specs and to go wild with testing and see with the players like. Blizzard has seen (and even admitted the popularity of something they thought would be niche) the popularity of Demon tanks.

They said there is gearing issues since they wanted tanks to go for separate gear from their DPS counterparts. Have Spirit cloth be that different gear since current locks avoid it. Blizzard, do something for your fans! Instead of instantly squishing an off-spec like you did with Shaman tanking (even though it still lives as a zombie), Shaman 2h, SMite priests, and shockadins, Let demotanks live! Give it life in the form of a 4th spec.

03/29/2012 01:47 PMPosted by Derrek

I respectfully disagree. We're still in Beta, and not even through the second week for crying out loud. Class balance is still very much in progress and will be until ship ( and for months afterward - just look at how Death Knights went ).

Death Knights were put on equal ground with the other tanks for the first time in WoW's history in 359 T11 content. Yes, they went from 3.0 to 3.2 completely overpowered, then 3.2 -> 4.0 horribly weak, and then they were actually well balanced for 359 T11.

Or, as you say, class balance was in progress for months after WotLK release.

If they're gonna go through all that trouble to balance a whole new class, with three whole new specs, against all the other classes and specs out there ( that still need balancing against each other, I might add ), they may as well go ahead and balance Warlock Tanks along with the rest.

"Class balance is already so bad, so what's the big deal with making it worse?"

That's the argument that a lot of Warlocks, including you, are making. I hate it. Most of the tanks here hate it. It's a horrible argument.

There's no reason for them not to. I have yet to see a valid argument explaining why Warlocks shouldn't get a tank spec. The only people who are really opposed to Warlocks having a fourth spec for tanking are people who don't play Warlocks ( or refuse to post from said warlock, therefore negating any credibility their opinion may have ).

Hai, I has a Warlock. I don't want them tanking because it will screw up balance even more.

A lot of warlocks are going to be running guild groups with them going as tanks.

Either remove the glyph entirely and de-nerf what you just did to the spec

or make it viable.

We don't want gimmick tanking.

If it's any consolation, you aren't going to be doing any tanking with the latest change to the glyph.

Or rather, you COULD tank if you wanted to try, it just wouldn't last all that long before you'd need to release spirit.

03/29/2012 02:02 PMPosted by Corpsetwo

Hai, I has a Warlock. I don't want them tanking because it will screw up balance even more.

There is a reason why Death knight tanking was so badly balanced until Wrath, and Why Feral Tanking/DPS has gone up and down through out the years.

Blizzard has learned Duel Role specs do not work in the game. That is the whole reason why death knights were so wonky till Cataclysm. Once cataclysm hit, they got a dedicated Tanking spec and then were on equal ground with the other tanks.

The issue with Druids were not PvE balance but PvP balance. However, if they Give Warlocks an actual 4th Tank spec and not a hybrid spec with the Glyph for tanking, there wouldn't be a major inbalance like you are claiming. They could easily tone that one spec up or down to be in line with other tanks with out effecting the DPS specs of warlocks.

Why is it called Demodin? thats stupid. But truthfully if he actually uses the search efature and posts, he'll be called a necroer but if he starts a new thread you guys will tell him to search

03/29/2012 02:16 PMPosted by Iaysia

The issue with Druids were not PvE balance but PvP balance.

Wrong. Feral Druid's ability to shift between dps and tank easily made them unbalanced, especially for 10m.

However, if they Give Warlocks an actual 4th Tank spec and not a hybrid spec with the Glyph for tanking, there wouldn't be a major inbalance like you are claiming. They could easily tone that one spec up or down to be in line with other tanks with out effecting the DPS specs of warlocks.

I get the impression that you haven't tanked a lot of serious content?

Death Knights had serious balance issues this expac and it wasn't because of a shared spec. Block tanks in T13 have been underpowered compared to non-block tanks. Tank balance is a very fine thing. Monks alone would upset tank balance, but factoring in the tanking remodel that is going on will exacerbate the problem. Adding yet another tank spec would introduce further balance problems.

Considering that, I see very little reason to do what is suggested here. There are a ton of downsides that would affect raid groups and very little upside.

The popularity of warlock tanks is the same as the one for shamans. We just tell the shamans who want to tank to stop trying to make a new spec when the other 3 need to be worked on.

This goes with tanking issues. Currently tank specs are not equal on dmg/mitigation/ and other usefulness. With adding monk tanks this could get even worst.

Now is not the time to do the warlock tank...it will just add to the tanking communities problems and furthermore solidify that blues dont read shaman forums about 2 handers (WE DONT NEED) and shaman offtanks. (WE DONT NEED).

What you need to do in beta as a warlock is to keep testing the specs and new abilities you have now in a dps situation. We do not bring warlocks to do anything but dps. Yes I know you are sitting there going hey but you can bring us in as a tank...Well we already have five tanks in the game and only room for maybe three in a raid but mainly two.

In all honesty just like the shaman forums. You are hurting the true nature of a dps class by trying to focus on something else. In the end they might give you a tank spec that guilds will barely use but ur dps will suffer.

If they're gonna go through all that trouble to balance a whole new class, with three whole new specs, against all the other classes and specs out there ( that still need balancing against each other, I might add ), they may as well go ahead and balance Warlock Tanks along with the rest.

So what your saying is that its hard enough as it is that we should make it completely impossible?

Its not like they have unlimited time in Beta. Why make their job even more stressful and crowded to add the least popular role in wow to the least popular class?

The issue with Druids were not PvE balance but PvP balance.

Wrong. Feral Druid's ability to shift between dps and tank easily made them unbalanced, especially for 10m.

It's both. Cats haven't been a top-tier DPS for this entire expansion, and Bears have had some scaling issues, but Feral has been a PVP god for almost the entire expansion because its total package makes it very, very strong. Mostly because the CC nerfs that affected everyone didn't hit Feral, but also because they have access to all the tank talents and all the (good) DPS talents in the same PVP spec and can switch between a deadly DPS form and a stonewall tank form in just 1 GCD.

It's not really possible to buff Kitty PVE without making Feral PVP too powerful. Likewise for Bear PVE.

You know... you'd think all the "Its Beta, they're working on stuff anyway, give'm more work and it'll be fine!!" kiddos would have read the Post Mortem about Cataclysm and realize what a bad idea that is. They openly criticized themselves and admitted that they spent so much time balancing, tuning, and recreating the 1-60 content that they bit off more than they could chew and had to rush other things or simply drop the ball completely on other ideas.

Time is a limiting factor and cramming MORE into that balance mix beyond what is intended for something utterly niche and largely unwanted or not cared about (ie Warlock Tanking) is simply asinine. And don't go claiming the roughly 150ish (at most) posters claiming they'd play Warlocks again constitutes any sort of vocal majority, that's a whole different fallacy I don't really have the energy to refute... AGAIN... here right now.

I support Demo Tanks with fervor!!!

but not under the name "demodin", please...

I'd rather call them Demon Hunters because the glyph that started this all is called "Glyph of Demon Hunting" lol