Concussive Shot vs Glyph of Arcane Shot (MoP)

85 Orc Hunter
4985
04/03/2012 09:29 PMPosted by Korrah
Hunters NEED a mechanic that returns Focus if a shot is dodged - especially more so with this change. Or Arcane needs to be reduced to 15 Focus (especially given it's current implementation of damage).


I'm hoping/assuming this will be implemented. It really wouldn't make sense if they let our shots start being dodged but don't add this. Every class that uses a resource besides mana get its refunded if the ability misses (excluding finishers). Rogues and ferals recoup energy, DKs don't consume runes on dodged abilities. It doesn't make sense to leave out hunters if this is going to be the case.
Reply Quote
100 Dwarf Hunter
17850
It makes perfect sense if you note that currently we are the only class whose cc is non spamable and is not reset if said cc misses or is resisted.
Reply Quote
90 Orc Hunter
10575
Not excited about having our ranged snare subject to both magic immunity and dodge.

tl;dr: I like the change. I like seeing hunter abilities merged together. It makes every global cooldown all that more powerful and allows us to more frequently use other abilities in our arsenal.


I understand people want to see abilities consolidated because of the overabundance of key binds needed to play well, but how about something that really NEEDED to be consolidated like Widow Venom? I have been a proponent of Widow and Arcane being merged for a long time.

Momma always said, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it."
Edited by Dirge on 4/4/2012 8:47 PM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Worgen Hunter
6735
I dont like it because i wasnt planning on taking the arcane shot glyph. I had been planning on going with disengage, explosive trap, and camo, but now it looks like i have to take it.

I understand them removing it, because with this, you would be able to keep 2 targets constantly snared, but that could be easily solved by making arcane shot proc the CD for conc shot if you have this glyph.

Honestly just dissapointed that the new system was supposed to allow choices in glyphs, but we already have 1 slot thats necessary to have to do decent in PvP.
Reply Quote
53 Worgen Hunter
410
04/04/2012 11:57 AMPosted by Prieto
1. Cept that there are a hand full of classes that have slows that don;t consume their resources because they are baked into their auto/main attacks. However that being said you can claim well so is ours now however we will be the only class who's resource bar can run out before we apply said slow negating the intended benefit.


I don't know how long glyphed arcane lasts but regardless I'm sure you'll be able to manage pulling off 25 focus in 6 secs between steady focus/viper venom/invigoration

2. As stated before the removal of a gcd by adding our slow to arcane will be completely negated by the addition of enemy dodge to all our our shots.


How is that relevant, concussive shot would be just as subject to dodges as well...

04/04/2012 12:32 PMPosted by Ruflok
Every class that uses a resource besides mana get its refunded if the ability misses (excluding finishers).


pretty sure this is false, except for dks. A dodged Mortal Strike is still 20 rage gone. I remember ferals getting 50% of the attack's energy cost refunded if its dodged but I dont see that talent anymore.

04/04/2012 12:39 PMPosted by Prieto
t makes perfect sense if you note that currently we are the only class whose cc is non spamable and is not reset if said cc misses or is resisted.


I mean its no wonder hunters are notorious for whining...

when did warriors, dks, rogues, shaman and priests get spammable CC?

You could argue mind control is spammable but it has a long cast and CC's the priest while he CCs so he can be CC'd while he CCs
Reply Quote
100 Dwarf Hunter
17850
04/04/2012 09:09 PMPosted by Khinoc
1. Cept that there are a hand full of classes that have slows that don;t consume their resources because they are baked into their auto/main attacks. However that being said you can claim well so is ours now however we will be the only class who's resource bar can run out before we apply said slow negating the intended benefit.


I don't know how long glyphed arcane lasts but regardless I'm sure you'll be able to manage pulling off 25 focus in 6 secs between steady focus/viper venom/invigoration

2. As stated before the removal of a gcd by adding our slow to arcane will be completely negated by the addition of enemy dodge to all our our shots.


How is that relevant, concussive shot would be just as subject to dodges as well...

04/04/2012 12:32 PMPosted by Ruflok
Every class that uses a resource besides mana get its refunded if the ability misses (excluding finishers).


pretty sure this is false, except for dks. A dodged Mortal Strike is still 20 rage gone. I remember ferals getting 50% of the attack's energy cost refunded if its dodged but I dont see that talent anymore.

04/04/2012 12:39 PMPosted by Prieto
t makes perfect sense if you note that currently we are the only class whose cc is non spamable and is not reset if said cc misses or is resisted.


I mean its no wonder hunters are notorious for whining...

when did warriors, dks, rogues, shaman and priests get spammable CC?

You could argue mind control is spammable but it has a long cast and CC's the priest while he CCs so he can be CC'd while he CCs


If a conc gets dodged you don;t lose focus. If an arcane is dodge you do.

granted these classes do not have spamable cc but that's besides the point. The point being that granted these classes are hit capped their cc should not be randomly resisted. The same does not apply to our traps since they do not follow the hit table and are affected by magic resists. All other classes who's cc is on the magic resist table can recast their cc.
Reply Quote
53 Worgen Hunter
410
The same does not apply to our traps since they do not follow the hit table and are affected by magic resists. All other classes who's cc is on the magic resist table can recast their cc.


hex, psychic scream, hungering cold, hammer of justice, psychic horror, chastise, frozen power, glyphed turn evil.

Pretty sure there are more non spammable magical CCs than there are spammable.

04/04/2012 10:45 PMPosted by Prieto
If a conc gets dodged you don;t lose focus. If an arcane is dodge you do.


Use arcane shot again....
Reply Quote
100 Dwarf Hunter
17850
04/04/2012 10:54 PMPosted by Khinoc
The same does not apply to our traps since they do not follow the hit table and are affected by magic resists. All other classes who's cc is on the magic resist table can recast their cc.


hex, psychic scream, hungering cold, hammer of justice, psychic horror, chastise, frozen power, glyphed turn evil.

Pretty sure there are more non spammable magical CCs than there are spammable.

04/04/2012 10:45 PMPosted by Prieto
If a conc gets dodged you don;t lose focus. If an arcane is dodge you do.


Use arcane shot again....


Pretty sure those are magical but not on the magic resists table and work off hit instead
Reply Quote
53 Worgen Hunter
410
04/04/2012 11:11 PMPosted by Prieto
Pretty sure those are magical but not on the magic resists table and work off hit instead


lol.

So....you think rogues cant cloak and resist any of those spells?

Traps dont scale with hit because they work off their own hit table, spell pen capped and hit capped you traps can still "miss" (resist) 4% of the time if you don't have 2/2 survival tactics talented.
Reply Quote
100 Dwarf Hunter
17850
04/04/2012 11:24 PMPosted by Khinoc
Pretty sure those are magical but not on the magic resists table and work off hit instead


lol.

So....you think rogues cant cloak and resist any of those spells?

Traps dont scale with hit because they work off their own hit table, spell pen capped and hit capped you traps can still "miss" (resist) 4% of the time if you don't have 2/2 survival tactics talented.


how is cloak relevant? that's like bringing up pally bubble or dk shell, its designed to grant immunity!

That is my point exactly. There is nothing outside from Surv tactics to stop your traps from missing (even then they will still randomly get resisted). Spell pen does nothing for our traps it is for our filler shots that again are affected by magic resists.
Reply Quote
26 Goblin Mage
215
04/04/2012 11:37 PMPosted by Prieto
That is my point exactly. There is nothing outside from Surv tactics to stop your traps from missing (even then they will still randomly get resisted). Spell pen does nothing for our traps it is for our filler shots that again are affected by magic resists.


But the point is, it'll be double the penalty in MoP if you take the glyph of Arcane Shot. Concussive is gone - it doesn't exist anymore.
Your shots that snare get hit by dodges
You shots that snare get hit by magical immune abilities
Your shots that snare get hit by snare immune abilities
Your shots that snare cost you Focus (25 if not talented)
Arcane Shot damage has been significantly reduced compared to other damaging shots.

Remember, there is no T13 2pc bonus in MoP. It's a steep price to pay for a snare; especially for a class that must maintain range.
Traps are still a bit clunky - it's still a passive cc. You have to place it, an enemy has to trigger it. Still on a longish cd.
Scatter - still breaks on damage. Still a moderately long cd.
We'll see how Binding Shot, Glaive Toss, and the like all play out. But my guess is, Hunters will be losing a bit of baseline control to gain new abilities that control through Talents.

Consolidation? It's not really consolidation of abilities if it takes a glyph, AND you need new abilities/keybinds to accomplish the same thing as before.
Reply Quote
53 Worgen Hunter
410
04/04/2012 11:37 PMPosted by Prieto
how is cloak relevant? that's like bringing up pally bubble or dk shell, its designed to grant immunity!


you speak of spell resistance and I provide with a spell that provides spell resist....Cloak of shadows isn't an immunity game mechanic past the first .5 sec after activation.

spell resist...

04/04/2012 11:37 PMPosted by Prieto
There is nothing outside from Surv tactics to stop your traps from missing (even then they will still randomly get resisted). Spell pen does nothing for our traps it is for our filler shots that again are affected by magic resists.


this is wrong

Traps now scale with hunter stats such as hit, expertise, spell penetration and attack power as intended.


http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/2993743#hunters

I was wrong about them not benifitting hunter hit, so survival tactics probably does nothing but lower disengage cd.

You obviously didn't play when freezing trap would resist constantly for years it was rolling dice trying to land freeze even with all your stats capped.

Prieto I think you just don't know how the game works, 0 spell pen, 6% hit...112 games played to 1300 this week as thug cleave
Reply Quote
90 Dwarf Hunter
4475
I hate this change so f ing much. I appreciate them listening to us in some aspect, but it is like they are only half listening.

People wanted button consolidation

They remove probably our most powerful ability in the scheme of PvP and add it on to arcane but then add backdraws to it.

They add a glyph to remove dots, but add it to the wrong ability.

This is all like the master's call "buff". They told us they were buffing it by lowering it to 35 seconds. But they then change their mind and put it back up to 45 seconds and then make it dispellable and spell stealable. LOL
Edited by Jocks on 4/5/2012 12:15 AM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Orc Hunter
10575
Would anyone else prefer to see Widow Venom merged with arcane rather than Concussive Shot?

Personally it would be a better consolidation of abilities.
Reply Quote
100 Dwarf Hunter
17850
how is cloak relevant? that's like bringing up pally bubble or dk shell, its designed to grant immunity!


you speak of spell resistance and I provide with a spell that provides spell resist....Cloak of shadows isn't an immunity game mechanic past the first .5 sec after activation.

spell resist...

There is nothing outside from Surv tactics to stop your traps from missing (even then they will still randomly get resisted). Spell pen does nothing for our traps it is for our filler shots that again are affected by magic resists.


this is wrong

Traps now scale with hunter stats such as hit, expertise, spell penetration and attack power as intended.


http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/2993743#hunters

I was wrong about them not benifitting hunter hit, so survival tactics probably does nothing but lower disengage cd.

You obviously didn't play when freezing trap would resist constantly for years it was rolling dice trying to land freeze even with all your stats capped.

Prieto I think you just don't know how the game works, 0 spell pen, 6% hit...112 games played to 1300 this week as thug cleave


Yes I speak of resistance but you provide a spell that offers immunity totally different than resistance. If the Rogue was aiming to eat the trap with cloak he would do it off the immunity and not risk the resist chance of still getting trapped.

Though I am probably wrong about them since i had not seen the patch notes you linked. Guess that's why I haven't seen them miss in bgs

I think you don't know how to properly armory stalk. 0 SPen 6% hit ( logged with pve gear & cheff's hat O.O) 112 played this season not week (our rogue got deployed haven't arenaed in months)
Edited by Prieto on 4/5/2012 10:33 AM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Pandaren Hunter
16665
You do realize you're compairing a the glyph of Concussive Shot which is being replaced by Glyph of Arcane shot right? Glyph of Concussive Shot doesn't exsist anymore.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Hunter
10780
04/05/2012 10:37 AMPosted by Xplosive
You do realize you're compairing a the glyph of Concussive Shot which is being replaced by Glyph of Arcane shot right? Glyph of Concussive Shot doesn't exsist anymore.


Yes, but glyph of arcane shot is intended to be the replacement for glyphed concussive shot.
Reply Quote
85 Orc Hunter
4985
04/05/2012 08:06 AMPosted by Dirge
Would anyone else prefer to see Widow Venom merged with arcane rather than Concussive Shot?


This would have made much more sense. Would have had all the hunters celebrating as well since I know that's one of the big things that's always complained about.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)

Reported!

[Close]