PvP in vanilla WoW vs. PvP we have today

I've played since the game's first few months of existence, and I would agree wholeheartedly that PVP was much more fun back then. In those days, a lot of the PVP was done because you wanted to compete head-to-head in battle. Today, I hear so much "I just want gear" and "Let's get this over with." What is the point? Without the fun of competition, who gives a crap about gear? I have never understood that. It pains me that they turned AV into a grand, epic, multi-hour battle into something where both sides just ride straight to each other's boss. It's embarrassing that Blizz has allowed that to go on for 3-4 years now.

Another suggestion I'd make for improving PVP is less abilities and longer cooldowns. People gravitate to classes that have short-cooldown abilities with major power. The game was much better when fights lasted longer, required more skill.

Just my 2 cents...
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90 Orc Shaman
13475
03/27/2012 09:50 PMPosted by Bronyarstomp
In those days, a lot of the PVP was done because you wanted to compete head-to-head in battle.


PvP titles? The ranked pvp gear? The ranked pvp mounts?
03/27/2012 09:50 PMPosted by Bronyarstomp
The game was much better when fights lasted longer, required more skill.


Fights back then didn't last longer. Not a chance, at all. With the amount of stupid mechanics in pvp back then, fights did definitely not take more skill either - Let alone the amount of new abilities introduced which you have to cater for in pvp that we have now that weren't around then.

Seriously, enough with people being so ignorant about vanilla pvp. I don't know if these people who say it was so good ever actually played it, or are just not remembering it.

evasion BF AR solo two warriors hurr hurr, is just one example.
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85 Night Elf Druid
6340
I played a fair amount of Vanilla pvp, remember it clearly. Never ran into trouble with much of CC or stuns, probably because the playerbase on Thunderhorn was just generally not PvP orientated or not geared due to a lack of progression. I do, however, remember critting people for 2k with my starshards Nelf priest channel cast.

That was some messed up strong ability.

Spam healing hunters in old AV so they could Volley peeps on the bridge.

I'll say it and you'll hate me: GOOD TIMES.
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85 Human Rogue
8020
Not sure how anyone can claim vanilla PvP took more skill or it was more fun. Such a clunky game compared to what it has been since Wrath.
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100 Undead Warlock
13605
This amounts to nothing more than *la la la*.

OP refuses to post on a significant toon.

Ergo.

This thread is *la la la*.
Edited by Bubblykiss on 3/28/2012 12:02 AM PDT
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85 Blood Elf Warlock
4155
dunno why everyone always says vanilla pvp was the best, it was far harder to obtain competitive gear and as a result, most people didn't have decent gear for a long time and got smashed by anything with decent gear, whether it was a hardcore pve'er or pvp'er. did anyone here really enjoy sitting in a 45 second sap? or a poly of the same duration? or being fear spammed, literally? pre-DR? and even then, legendary's were OP - pve gear was even more used in pvp because there was no resilience, there was no real negative consequence from using pve gear, infact, getting decked in pve gear was the fastest way to get to rank 14 with the grind.

every expac had ridiculous aspects in pvp, @ all the people claiming "Vanilla pvp was the golden pvp" blah blah, get off the bandwagon and realise that vanilla pvp didn't have the sun shining out of its a$$.

even better when you get the people who admit to never playing vanilla, but they still jump on the 'vanilla was the best' bandwagon. there's vanilla private servers that are completely 'blizz-like' (with the exception of some bugs, but vanilla had its fair share of stupid bugs) and when you go back and play them to 'relive the glory days' it really isn't as great as everyone remembers.


PvP was PvP in Vanilla. DR's got added in within the first month of release. PvP trinkets a bit after, but I don't recall ever sitting in a fear/sap for 45 seconds outside of the first couple weeks. (I remember when I was like lvl 30 something being able to poly someone who jumped me, get out of combat and drink to full whenever I felt like it cause no DR's and Poly lasted like 40 seconds, though Like I said, that was fixed within the first month, possibly the first couple weeks.)

I enjoyed Vanilla, BC, the little I played of Wrath and Cata. There are aspects of the game that were better in Vanilla, and their are certain aspects better now.
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85 Tauren Shaman
8305
what vanilla did have was epic battles that didnt kiss the casual gamers butt. and u had to have some knowledge how to play the bg and work as a team. plus the gear and titles were earned not handed out after a couple of battles that u were carried through. And yes pve gear was very good to use but then again it was not handed out to any noob that walked in and did one or two instances so it was not easy to get ether. these days are the days of the noob and gear is given to u and not earned.these days everyone has epics and if a few know anything about a bg or instance's .they even space the mobs out for u so that u can kill them.ya vanilla was a far harder place to pvp and to pve than this ghost that we play now.
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90 Orc Shaman
13475
@ Peronys - The pvp trinkets were only good to use for a couple of classes though, rest of them were better off with a PvE trinket. Remember, it wasn't "removes all movemenet impairing effects" etc. Some were stuff like, sleep/roots/charm.

@ Chromus - Not entirely. There was also a lot of pvp at quel'danas - speaking of which, it was due to the introduction of dailies in BC which allowed people quick and easy portions of gold which boosted the servers auction house economies and got it really flowing, which yes, eliminated the need for many people to spend hours farming living essences in un'goro and alike.

@ Blacksong - Okay, so you had to know how to play the BG and work as a team then but you don't now? A BG team that co-operates now will trump a disorganised ragtag team. And, yes, epics are easier to come by, because they have been somewhat devalued. You can get epics from HoT or ZA/ZG, go into a BG, and get roflstomped by anyone in pvp or better pve gear. Heck, you could be a rogue in blues with one AV epic dagger, and beat people in t2/rank 14 gear. But if you roll a rogue, or any class, now, and do that, you will get stomped on. Vanilla pvp, was so clunky and boringly simple. The pvp titles back then took dedication to get, and it was possible to pay someone to grind out kills each week for you for higher titles/gear, it just wasn't as booming a black market trade as it is now (buying carries) - But speaking generally, are you saying players who get to say, 2400 in 3s, 5s, or RBG's, didn't earn it? If you are, don't even bother responding. "They even space the mobs out for you" what? Yeah, because every mob in a dungeon/raid in vanilla was stacked up in one spot wasn't it -.-
Edited by Thünder on 3/28/2012 1:39 AM PDT
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85 Undead Rogue
3710
For the second half of vanilla my main was a fully raid geared hunter. Every raid tier I had a full set of every BiS item well before the raid became outdated or farm status for other guilds. In an era when resilience did not exist, nor did arena or rated battlegrounds, I was a god. I could literally kill the average player from max range with a surprise aimed shot multi-shot combo before they even knew they were being attacked. Rogues fled in terror at the prospect of being marked, trapped, poisoned, and focused by a seemingly omniscient pet, since their defensive mechanisms were limited and buggy even in the best of circumstances. ALL cloth wearers were subject to relentless and brutally swift assaults, often out of their own range of attack. Warriors charged helplessly into freezing traps and were subjected to humiliating kiting deaths. Entire groups of moderately geared and skilled enemies would literally turn and run after witnessing their ally explode into a fine red mist before even dismounting. I was often bombarded by tells from half the raid after long AVs ended from players commenting on my 1000+ killing blows and 0 deaths, most of them honestly all my doing.

Was it all skill? Definitely not. I was a great PvPer back in the day, but the disparity between those with gear and those without was tremendous at the time. Obviously I enjoyed every second of the slaughter, but it likely came at the cost of my victims' fun.
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90 Orc Shaman
13475
it was due to the introduction of dailies in BC which allowed people quick and easy portions of gold which boosted the servers auction house economies and got it really flowing, which yes, eliminated the need for many people to spend hours farming living essences in un'goro and alike.


huh? Printing more money only causes inflation, it doesn't produce more output


People got gold easier -> realise they can buy off the AH with less consequence because they'll earn a continuous stream of gold from dailies -> don't bother farming -> more people sit in cities because they don't have to farm -> world pvp drops.

I didn't say that the prices of things didn't go up. But you need the income for the auction house to work. Vanilla had no steady source of gold income, unless you chose to farm (which wasn't that steady, due to the amount of competition because farming mats for things was really the only way to earn gold in vanilla). Dailies eradicated that need because people did dailies and bought mats instead of farming.

I wouldn't compare it to simply printing more money - After dailies were introduced, and then the wotlk dailies gave more gold than the BC ones, that would be more comparable to printing more money. The introduction of dailies, would be more comparable to providing a new line of work, enabling people to buy things instead of farming them irl - which provides a steadier stream of income (and increases the demand) for the farmers themselves, while also providing the steadier stream of income to the consumer.
Edited by Thünder on 3/28/2012 2:28 AM PDT
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90 Orc Shaman
13475
Don't get me wrong I loved vanilla, but I think many people are being woefully ignorant when they say that vanilla PvP was the greatest, because it really wasn't, and most of the time the only argument people come up with is something like "it was all about epic pvp battles and going head to head against your enemies" which just shows they really haven't thought out their statements of "vanilla pvp was epic" :/
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85 Undead Death Knight
0
Then: "Oh hey, I recognize most/all of the people in this battleground! Oooh, xxxx is here, that guy is so annoying...I hate fighting against him! Lets win this one guys!" "Yeah! For the Horde! (Alliance)"

Now: "I don't know any of you and I don't give a !@#$ about you either as long as we win. If things don't go perfectly, then you're all noobs and need to stop playing."
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85 Goblin Warrior
7815
Things change with time. PvP isn't better or worse it is merely different than what was implemented in 1.xx

Over time they have tried to change the system from the person with the most time to play has the advantage to the person with the most skill has the advantage.

People seem to forget that PvP always had issues and will continue to do so as long as someone has to "lose" in order for another to "win"
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85 Tauren Shaman
8185
PvP in vanilla was people in raid gear farming captain UBRS for cp. It was fun for the people and the community at the time because everyone knew one another. Rogues in t2 or higher killing you in a cs with thistle tea, mage dbl trinket pom pyro, enh dbl procing wf with hand of rag or numerous other ways you could be good gamed without the ability to do anything. Now don't get me wrong I really enjoyed vanilla grinding to rank 11 for the mount on my mage with t2 throwing instant pyroblasts for 75% of peoples hp was a blast not because it was balanced but for the people I was doing it with.
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This sums up Vanilla PvP balance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJWeWMKfa3g
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85 Undead Priest
3905
03/28/2012 01:47 AMPosted by Chromus
huh? Printing more money only causes inflation, it doesn't produce more output


Thank God someone understands inflation IRL. An increase of money supply in any market, whether pervasive (easy dailys) or direct injection always causes inflation, ceteris paribus.

To deny this natural law of nature, consider:

You trade eggs with me for apples. I obtain a magical apple duplicating machine. If you will still trade the same # of eggs for apples I will take as many eggs from you as possible for as long as possible and will always remain rich because I control with legislative power granted to me the one and only duplicator in the market.

Inflation is actually when the apples are magically duplicated, not when people can see it vis a vis higher prices at the grocery store or gas station. And to Thunder's point on money for the consumer, I would hypothesize that this has the greatest influence on price variance in the AH that people complain about. Why should a farmer farm when they can do dailys for gold? On a macro level this now causes commodity shortages in the AH that result in price spikes, and thus the farmers now hear that the commodity prices are up and then go farming mats, or list from inventory for the inflated prices. After about a week the prices ease down. Cycle soon repeats.

For those that understand the market manipulation, one can mitigate overpaying and attempt to maximize profits as long as possible. For those that don't get it (IRL also), they just are always chasing gold and begging for help with gear.
Edited by Diesirae on 3/28/2012 12:43 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
4440
id say the mechanics of classes are more fun now but i really miss the old pvp. dont get me wrong bg's and arena are awesome. but was more fun when it was a constant war over territories....that's completely gone now :(
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90 Tauren Druid
7615
11/29/2012 11:56 AMPosted by Bloodryn
id say the mechanics of classes are more fun now but i really miss the old pvp. dont get me wrong bg's and arena are awesome. but was more fun when it was a constant war over territories....that's completely gone now :(


read the dates.
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