Dev Watercooler – MoP Looting Explained

90 Gnome Mage
I definitely am happy about the aoe looting. I've seen it in other games and really enjoy it. The other I am not sure of but I can't hold anything against it till i see how it works in wow. I have seen it in other games and sometimes it like omg im not winning anything but it does seem more fair cause there's no cheating with the loot. I am very optimistic.
85 Human Paladin
Because other players are now causing your winning roll to be evaluated. Therefore, again by contradiction, your statement cannot be true. Everyone is rolling individually. Why do you guys have to make this so complicated?

Blizz should just come out and say "If you roll above an 80, you get loot. This means that if everyone in the raid rolls an 80 or above, everyone gets loot."

(I used 80 because that is the spot where "on average" all bosses will drop the same amount of loot as they currently do.)

A rather funny consequence of this is that EVERYONE will be worse off than they were before. This is because if even one person pushed the "I don't need that but it's designed for me" button they are giving their chance of winning to the rest of the raid improving their odds (effectively adding roughly 5% chance to get loot to every other player).

Lastly, it's worth noting though that this system works "in favor" of DPS specs (improves the odds they get loot relative to the old system) and works against tank / healing specs (reduces the odds they get loot relative to the old system). This is because every role is now treated equal but there was previously more tank loot / tank (and healers) than there was DPS loot / DPS.
Edited by Divinara on 3/27/2012 3:29 PM PDT
90 Worgen Druid
Wow I'm confused haha must be dumb. Guess I'll figure it out when I play it...
100 Night Elf Druid
I was a bit confused when it said "So, if you can Need, you probably do, because there’s no time for discussion, some of the rollers may be AFK, and even if you piss someone off, you aren’t likely to have to pay the social cost of doing so since you’ll never see them again" What is this saying? Kind of a confusing phrase. Is anything being done about people who go into LFR and just want to make other peoples life a problem and they need on anything i know it was mentioned but it wasn't clear. Some people need on stuff just because they want to be a problem like a full Heroic 25man geared rolling on all the LFR gear they can get their hands on for the same spec.
90 Draenei Shaman
03/27/2012 03:10 PMPosted by Nightsbane
Finally for this loot system the only "disadvantage" would be that you cannot trade the items otherwise it always gives you something you can use and most appropriate for your spec ?
Someone finally grasped the hidden consequences of this. The system is not designed to distribute more loot. In fact, it will distribute less because you can't trade. It's sole purpose is to reduce QQ. It's a lot like the holiday loot changes. Back in the day groups of five people would queue five times and roll on each other's drops. Inevitably there would be some jerk who would join the group without telling anyone that they had already run the boss that day and were unable to start the fight, cheating the entire group out of a shot at the drop. Blizzard solved this by giving everyone an individual loot bag at the end of the fight. So now you didn't have a best case scenario where five people got five chances at loot; instead everyone got one. This is similar. You no longer have chances at multiple items; you only get one shot at one item. If someone else wins something that would have been of use to you there's no way for them to pass it on. However, there will be much less crying about it and for that I'm grateful.
85 Troll Druid
If LFR loot is class&spec dependent, why can't normal and heroic raid loot be class and spec dependent? Especially in 10m raiding where we only get at shot at 2 pieces of loot. We are several months in on Dragon Soul and we've had over half the heroic portion of the raid on farm and there are SOOOO many items we haven't even seen drop (don't even get me started on the rare-er shared loot items.) With 2 10m groups both having DS on farm we haven't seen any of the shared loot drop between our 2 raid groups((1 is the heroic group, the other is the regular group.)) I also pug on my alt and clear it out on normal with no shared-loot drops in those groups so far either.
100 Human Paladin
I must say after reading the explanations in depth I was pleased with the concepts. As a caveat to the new looting system, and with the removal of valor points to purchase gear when down on your loot luck there is a feature I would like to see.

How about aside from your loot chance and bonus roll opportunity, every time you kill a boss and receive no loot you get a "point". Then as the points add up on subsequent kills with no loot wins these "points" act as a roll "multiplier".

So in theory these "points" increase your loot winning roll exponentially in proportion with the amount of loot losses. Winning a roll resets your points and as your kills with no wins add up so does your "multiplier".

Just an idea, the terms "points", and "multiplier" I use loosely as I am not a programmer and wouldn't know how to implement these factors in-game, I just thought of it as a additional win factor for the player. Somewhat similar to how DKP worked. I think that in addition to the new loot system this process will not only stop players from hating other players for looting but reduce the "game" / Blizzard hate for repeated no loot kills.
90 Orc Shaman
03/27/2012 03:25 PMPosted by Angelsnature
What is this saying? Kind of a confusing phrase.

Basically saying that if I wanted to say "Mind if I need on this for Enhance?" when I queued as Resto and there is an Enh and two hunters in the raid they may not read it, may not respond, or might even be AFK.

Establishing loot rules and etiquette on the fly is incredibly difficult in LFR - the new system is meant to remove the need for either of those things.
100 Pandaren Rogue
I’ve seen some suggestions that we allow an option for essentially “I’m happy to get loot beyond just what my main spec can use,” and maybe that’s the kind of approach we could take, but let’s make sure the basic design works first. For now, there are other avenues, such as dungeons, faction gear, normal raids or older content to provide off-spec or cosmetic gear.

A simple solution when you get to the point that the basic design is working well would be to ask each player with a pop-up message box at the beginning of the raid which spec they would like to roll on, and lock that choice in for the entire raid. That way a geared ret pally could contribute to the success of the raid and work on his holy or prot set.
90 Draenei Shaman
03/27/2012 03:25 PMPosted by Angelsnature
I was a bit confused when it said "So, if you can Need, you probably do, because there’s no time for discussion, some of the rollers may be AFK, and even if you piss someone off, you aren’t likely to have to pay the social cost of doing so since you’ll never see them again" What is this saying? Kind of a confusing phrase. Is anything being done about people who go into LFR and just want to make other peoples life a problem and they need on anything i know it was mentioned but it wasn't clear. Some people need on stuff just because they want to be a problem like a full Heroic 25man geared rolling on all the LFR gear they can get their hands on for the same spec.
This was a comment on the current state of LFR. When you read further into the post he describes the new system. Under the new system you don't have an option to Need, Greed, or Pass. Everyone rolls against a value and randomly wins or loses regardless of what anyone else did. If 25 people win loot they all get it. If no one wins loot no one gets it. No one else can affect whether or not you win an item anymore.
85 Gnome Priest
03/27/2012 03:03 PMPosted by Vonkunkel
If we can no longer buy raiding pieces with valor, please look into a way of making token drops in 10 man less random. Perhaps removing class requirement completely? We go through weeks of certain tokens not dropping which makes raiding 10 man feel overly penalizing compared to 25 where there is usually a better distribution and people with high epgp/dkp can get the tokens they want.

I was just thinking that someone could really be hosed by RNG with the new proposed system. It seems to me that what is currently in Cata is a good balance, where tier gear, weapons, off-hands and trinkets only drop in the raids, but you can fill in some of the other pieces with VP gear. Maybe it will be fine if they just increased the drop rate a bit on items to match the loss of VP items, or made things less random. I guess we'll just have to wait and see.
100 Night Elf Druid
okay ty
100 Human Paladin
The Raid Finder would duplicate loot as needed.

It also removes what I currently do: Queue as Healer with a DPS friend who wants healing gear. I get the DPS gear, they get the healing gear. It's no more unfair than anyone else. We both still only get 1 shot at each piece of gear, it's simply the fact I enjoy healing, he enjoys DPSing, we just want the other side of gear.

The new system will indeed take away the problem of people ninja'ing from a role they're not in; my rage on the subject comes from the current loot system.

I guess I just don't understand the mentality of "I don't like to play my off-spec but I want the gear for it." If you just LFR, there's no point since no one is forcing you to play any given spec, and if you have a normal raid that leans on how you to play two different roles often, they're hosing you on gear. For those who do progression raiding, LFR is meant to fill in the holes until you get it from your regular raid; it's not where you get your gear set from.
86 Tauren Death Knight
Can you give any kind of guarantee that I'm going to be needed as a tank on EVERY boss ever released in LFR?

This is my main issue with being forced to ONLY get main spec gear. When there's a fight that can be single tanked, if I'm not the one tanking, I might as well just go afk and watch TV for the fight, because I'm THAT useless. Or is loot going to depend on your current spec (active, not queued), so that if I'm Frost for a boss, I'll get a DPS piece and not tank?
Edited by Toza on 3/27/2012 3:40 PM PDT
85 Worgen Hunter
Just do what you do with Satchels. Everyone magically creates a satchel which may or maynot contain a peice of loot relevant to your current spec. So if you queue as a tank, you can swap specs and open the satchel if you only need dps gear. Maybe even make them BoA too so geared player can gear up alts faster with LFR stuff.
Edited by Yorkie on 3/27/2012 3:39 PM PDT
85 Tauren Druid
Can we please make the loot roller system just give class appropriate things instead of spec so much, or provide an option for one or the other that you choose going into the raid or something? Or provide an option for which spec gear you want to have a chance at? This would help with gearing off spec and would solve the healer shortages as more people can gear their healing offspecs or healers can go in and gear whatever offspecs they may have. You're not rolling against anyone anymore so why not?

Also, are the VP item level boosts stackable? Or once per object?
Can the VP item level boosts be used for PvP gear? Or only PvE gear?
Will CP have any item level boost items too?
85 Human Mage
I like the idea of the new system and I have not looked through all the posts yet but there are a few problems I hope will be addressed.

The major problem with this system is that organized guilds will get a group of alts saved and then for each set of 4 mains the guild will run LFR guaranteeing those four mains a useful piece of loot off of each of those bosses.This will allow those organized guilds to gear up their characters in full sets of LFR gear in one week, which will be something most progression guilds will feel as a mandatory process to stay competitive.

My solution for this would be that if a character has already received an item from a boss and returns to LFR they should still be placed in the list of "Characters who can get loot" but the item they get would be a bag with gold or gems or flasks or something. This would ensure guilds cannot siphon items into their characters. This would also give a bit of benefit to run LFR more then once a week if a player so feels inclined.My other problem with LFR (this is completely opinion) is the presence of tier set bonuses. These made a huge impact in the first few weeks, it felt mandatory to get your four piece as quickly as possible through LFR because they were tuned quite highly and the extra sockets in the pieces made them better then the heroic items from the previous tier. I hope this will change, LFR's purpose feels like s stepping stone to get into raiding content, especially for those who are fresh to raiding in a content or for alts, but it feels like a way to cheat the next tier by getting items faster and completing sets easier.

I hope the LFR's in mists will be tuned so that it is not beneficial for raiders in the previous tier to replace all their items with the LFR pieces of the next tier, my solution for doing this would be to A) Remove set bonuses from LFR tier, have them be itemized the same and similar look as they are now but do not have them grant the set bonus. And/Or B) Reduce the item level to ensure that they are not better then heroic items of the previous tier. I suppose a possible C) Would be to increase the item level of both LFR and the next tier so that LFR is a required step in each tier of raiding but I would greatly dislike this option.

Just some food for thought kindof things.
Edited by Aestane on 3/27/2012 3:51 PM PDT
100 Dwarf Paladin
I'm a dwarf and I am very satisfied with these changes to the game. I just want to make sure that my opinion is known.

One thing I would say though is that I actually do kind of enjoy farming mats, but only when they are incidental extra rewards that happen while I'm doing something else.
85 Orc Death Knight
I read the changes... and Ghostcrawler, i can officially say i love you :D
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