Dev Watercooler – MoP Looting Explained

89 Human Paladin
3660
I have a few questions and I am 85% sure they have been asked seeing how there are 66 pages. But why changed the whole loot system Why not force the the tank, dps, heal, along with plate, mail, leather and cloth. I mean I know there are people who will roll need out of spite or because its a blue item and it will sell for more to a vendor then a green or white.

I mean I am sure the most complaints are from lower level people who are trying to get to Max and are doing old world stuff only to have a Death Knight roll need on cloth gear just to sell it when another class could use it and most likely needs it. I mean the loot program we have in LFR is working fine. Its the 5-man groups that have the biggest problem

To me changing the loot program should not be on a Need-to-Do list. If you were only to tweak it to the point where 3 items wold drop and have only item from the gear levels (i.e Plate, Mail etc etc) it would fix the problem more effectively. The new table is only going to turn people who farm gear to DE millionaires because mats will become so expensive.

I am not only taking about this from a max toon. But a person that loved the leveling of classes and new toons on new servers. So to me the change is just a little too extreme
90 Blood Elf Warlock
10440
I think the Valor change is dumb. I'm in a raid team, so it would not affect me, but I have friends who are not. What if they can't get into raids because the raid leader says their gear is not good enough? It will be a circle of stupid, you need the gear to get in the raid, but you need to be in the raid to get the gear. And by the same token, what if you are running raids with people specifically to help them get gear they need, it can just go to you even if what you have is way better and the whole point of this raid was to help one specific person. No passing? Retarded. Piles of wasted gear drops, that's what will happen. I think Blizzard is just trying to slo players down because too many are getting too good too fast, and they can't keep up. I love this game, and it is being pissed on and ruined right before my eyes.
90 Undead Warrior
7400
Please read my post hear and leave comments and/or thoughts

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/4427705177#1
I read this article thinking "Maybe people shouldn't get so upset over a game. Maybe people shouldn't get so full of themselves, thinking they alone carried the raid to victory. Maybe, just maybe, if people don't like the way the game works, they should stop playing." Then I remembered that this is world of warcraft so logic goes right out the window. Why change a loot system that isn't broken, not even cracked, just for the douches that cause loot drama?
92 Blood Elf Warlock
14820
I dunno, I believe they made the game "longer" now.

You won't have a chance to get your "offspec" gear while performing your "mainspec" role if you go through the LFR route of gearing up.

While this is almost true with the current LFR, there is still that tiny miniscule chance that, say you're a Prot Paly, and roll Need on DPS trinkets, if everyone with the Role Bonus only rolls Greed, then you can still win. This can happen, I've won some gear like this on alts, and also Maelstroms (yes, you can win Maelstrom crystals in LFR these days).

This new system gets rid of that tiny chance.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
8915
I would just like to say, satchel of helpful goods. I hope that whoever is determining the loot for these raids isn't the same person who determines what goes in that bag. Leveling up a new character I can probably use an item from that bag every 5 or 6 levels.
90 Draenei Paladin
9230
With respect to those wanting loot for Off Spec or Xmorg: why not, once it has been determined that a player has won the roll, simply offer them the choice of "Main Spec", "Off Spec", or "Xmorg". Then choose according to the spec or ensure the item is visible (i.e. xmorgable)?

With respect to not farming: this seems to me to be nullifying two professions (or at least very beneficial parts of them). Most obviously would be the Alchemy Profession. I would want to think twice now about taking that profession if all I can do is a few transmutations. I guess this is just another move in the direction that feels to me like maybe its time to either: add new content to the professions or remove them.

(I'm sorry I know this next bit is getting a little off topic.) The professions are in need of revamping or correcting anyway. My primary example would be the Engineering profession. Here I've bought new recipes and had them show up as Green or Yellow, yet with the Yellows I've often made 10, 15, or more and gotten points all the way through. The bombs an Engineer can make are, well duds. My Shaman could do more damage with her spells than with bombs crafted appropriate for that level. Herbing tool tips are often wrong with respect to required level to pick. It seems like Jewel Crafting and Enchanting (which is also busted, not because the enchants are not level appropriate, but because the game has been made too easy and leveling so fast that no one is going to spend the coin on the lower level enchants.) (Climbing down from soap box now.)

It seems to me that with 85 and soon to be 90 levels to the game, there really needs to be a more serious overhaul to the game structure. I have several ideas along these lines but one would be to reduce the leveling zones to 1/3 of what they are today and make all the rest end game content. (In many instance this could be done by simply scaling up the monsters. While I realize each zone is trying to tell a piece of the greater story, they way things are now, you level past half of the story anyway and so from a story telling perspective things are already disjoint or semi nonsensical as I might do the first part of one story (or chapter) only to do the last part of a completely different story (or chapter).)
90 Draenei Paladin
9230
04/13/2012 02:06 PMPosted by Noori
I would just like to say, satchel of helpful goods. I hope that whoever is determining the loot for these raids isn't the same person who determines what goes in that bag. Leveling up a new character I can probably use an item from that bag every 5 or 6 levels.


Agreed! What does my Restro Shammy need an Agility/Strength item for?!?!?!
85 Dwarf Hunter
8805
I have to agree with those that say killing valor is a horrible idea. Adding the current valor system made it possible for casual players to be able to see endgame content without dedicating their life to Raids.

I remember the old system. For those who didn't have the time to raid constantly, it sucked. Hardcore players will of course cheer the change, but for many of us with a life it will literally mean the end of the world ... of warcraft.
85 Blood Elf Mage
2600
i find it extremely annoying how Bliz is trying to force people into raiding by saying they want to take away the option of buying good gear off valor wendors so that you have to go raid to get good gear, not everyone enjoys raiding, i personally find it extremely boring having to wait around for an hour before anything even starts and when it does you spend 10-20 boringgggggg minutes trying to kill a boss, so not my thing, so when did WOW become something for Raiders only?
90 Night Elf Rogue
12750
04/13/2012 11:45 AMPosted by Lucinía
Okay I read it but i can't tell is this new loot system just gonna be in raid finder or are they going to screw over all loot systems?

It says, right in the blog: "The personal loot system will initially be used for Raid Finder and for world bosses."


But why changed the whole loot system... To me changing the loot program should not be on a Need-to-Do list. If you were only to tweak it to the point where 3 items wold drop and have only item from the gear levels (i.e Plate, Mail etc etc) it would fix the problem more effectively. The new table is only going to turn people who farm gear to DE millionaires because mats will become so expensive.

Keep in mind the fact that LFR is still brand-new. This is the first content patch where it's been utilized, so it's not like they're changing something after years of use. The next content patch, i.e. MoP, is naturally the time when they'd make the most changes to the system, after seeing its use for the duration of one tier.

I'm not sure why people think that LFR is even remotely a significant source of enchanting mats. I would venture to say that at least 90% of DE mats come from dungeons. Even after some 13-odd weeks of LFRs, I rarely see more than one or maybe two items get DE'd in an LFR. And that's up to 2 shards split between 25 people once a week 3-4 months deep into the tier. You'd normally see about the same number of shards per heroic, at this point, and those are 5-man dungeons that can be run ad nauseam.


04/13/2012 12:31 PMPosted by Aviallina
I think the Valor change is dumb. I'm in a raid team, so it would not affect me, but I have friends who are not. What if they can't get into raids because the raid leader says their gear is not good enough? It will be a circle of stupid, you need the gear to get in the raid, but you need to be in the raid to get the gear.

You don't really understand the system at all, then. The new valor changes are great if you're a raider, since you can upgrade your raid drops. Instead of just being able to get raid-tier gear, now you can get better-than-raid-tier gear. And your friends can still use valor to improve their gear, so valor will have the same function it always has.

04/13/2012 12:31 PMPosted by Aviallina
I think Blizzard is just trying to slo players down because too many are getting too good too fast, and they can't keep up.

It's pointless trying to talk about how fast or slow this is going to make gearing up because Blizzard hasn't set or announced the win% chance yet. GC stated in his blog that the devs don't want gearing rates to be too slow, so I'd wager they're going to stay about the same.


04/13/2012 01:38 PMPosted by Rubedo
You won't have a chance to get your "offspec" gear while performing your "mainspec" role if you go through the LFR route of gearing up.

GC said they'll look into the off-spec thing, so it's not a done deal on not being able to get off-spec gear. And LFR is easy enough, in all honesty, that running as your off-spec to get off-spec loot should be quite feasible.


04/13/2012 06:35 PMPosted by Anaximandery
I have to agree with those that say killing valor is a horrible idea. Adding the current valor system made it possible for casual players to be able to see endgame content without dedicating their life to Raids.

Read it again. They're not killing valor. You spend VP, you get more stats. Same base function.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
8915
04/13/2012 02:29 PMPosted by Freespirt
I would just like to say, satchel of helpful goods. I hope that whoever is determining the loot for these raids isn't the same person who determines what goes in that bag. Leveling up a new character I can probably use an item from that bag every 5 or 6 levels.


Agreed! What does my Restro Shammy need an Agility/Strength item for?!?!?!


That is exactly what I'm talking about!
85 Draenei Shaman
0
My main concern is that this system doesn't allow stat preference, example:

Hunter and enh. shaman both win two different pieces from the same boss (or even different bosses from the same raid)
Say the shaman piece has crit and haste on it and the hunter piece has mastery and hit. Both are valid for each player but the shaman may vastly prefer the mastery/hit, the hunter may prefer the crit/haste and would gladly trade.
They would be unable to in the new system, whereas the old system would leave both happier without going into the realm of just giving everyone exactly what they want all the time because the drops were originally random anyways.
86 Blood Elf Rogue
0
I've seen this loot system in other MMOs like Vindictus and it works beautifully, especially because of the fact there is no more whining or bashing on the person who wins the loot. I am very happy that Blizzard is going to change to the per-person loot model. Keep it up Blizzard. The only thing you guys need to work on now is making the game less gear dependent.
90 Undead Rogue
7400
This is the biggest problem I see with the new loot system:

Jim is a DK. Jim has been raiding for weeks now. Jim has all the gear he needs off most of the raid bosses. Bill is a warrior who just hit 90. Bill is present for our first boss kill. Jim gets loot.

That is soo stupid. With the old system, you can atleast trade gear so you dont waste time. Giving loot to someone who doesn't need gear sounds stupid. Yes, you can disenchant it, but only if your an enchanter, since it's untradeable. Raiding to vendor some gear for 30g? And I understand this does not apply to guild raids, but based on Blizzards comments of "Its currently on the LFR and World bosses" means its comming. All I ask blizzard is like a "I dont want to roll on this boss's loot table" feature for those that do not need items. I understand this could be a broken system (since everyone could turn it on and give loot to one person) im sure all you ppl on the development team can work something out. I see it now, 10 kills in a raid an people who don't need gear automatically getting it. Bill would be upset -.-
85 Night Elf Druid
2745
My only concern with the Valor changes is what it does to PvP players. I don't know about all of you, but I PvP because I don't like to PvE. To be forced to PvE for good gear is kind of.. eh.

Unless Conquest is going to serve the same function for PvPers as Valor is for PvErs. We'll have to wait and see, I suppose.
85 Blood Elf Paladin
2430
I just wish ppl would stop messing with a great game to make it idiot proof and fix the issues. Seriously whats the point of a random roll with random loot that cannot be traded. I would at least want to be able to trade the item to someone who actually needs. I honestly dont think I like this expansion at all. If you thought getting geared from our current LFR was bad now wait- if you have !@#$ty dice (like me) not only wont you win anything but nobody can give you anything if they win and already have it they will have to vendor. I regret daily signing the annual pass because I am quite sure that once MOP is out I wont be playing very much as I have a hard time dealing with the issues we address daily that never seem to get fixed. Seems like each expansion makes the game worse to play I honestly liked BC the best even without sparkly herbs and !!!! allover the map etc. ppl wouldnt care so much about new content if the content we had now were more fun to play and if issues were addressed when they are found rather then changing everything around with each expansion and just having to tolerate it till then.
90 Blood Elf Priest
6370
Honestly I think it takes the responsibility of the players out which is ridiculous, and it's ridiculous that you can't trade an item you get. Personally, I think it should still involve need, greed, and pass, but you can only need on spec-based items. Like, I was on my mage but our feral-druid TANK won the CASTER dagger because he had a fit that he didn't win an agility item. -- So, what I'm saying is that he can -only- need on that dagger if he was in resto spec or balance spec at the time. Though, due to being feral at the time, the option was taken from him. This is how it works in normal server raids, yes? You roll on main spec with a master looter. Well this is the -exact- same idea, but in raid finder the game is the master looter. Also, what if a player already has Boots-of-the-Awesome and they won 'em again? Obviously they'd want to give them to someone else. Though, due to the lack of looting options they couldn't pass on it and therefore that guy with Hey-My-Boots-Suck never got his upgrade, and an already geared person just got fodder. ~~ Either this idea, or add an offspec roll as well which is available to the people who -can't- roll on the main spec because they weren't in the spec appropriate for that roll. So a caster dagger drops, the feral druid can need as offspec, but he can't roll mainspec. (Of course mainspec rolls would have a roll bonus, but I've ocassionally seen items get passed by all 25 players and that's a great opportunity for an offspec roller to win it.) And hey, I've felt generous enough to trade people things I've just won. I have 378 boots, this other guy has 333, I just won a 390 boot; I feel nice enough to give it to him. Therefore, WTB trade ability back. Another thing is that; what if this guy won priest helm, but I won priest gloves? Maybe I wanted the hat instead so I'd ask him if he'd like to trade me the hat for the gloves. :P Trade option should exist. If one of the raiders has a 5-yr-old fit, let 'em. People, no matter what age are going to be babies. Either be the mature player and ignore them, or report them. If not? Oh well, life is life and people take responsibility for their own actions.
90 Gnome Death Knight
6715
Say I ran a raid on the raid finder in MoP. I get chosen to win loot but I already have superior items from time raiding on normal mode. Should another person win the chance at loot or should I be able to trade in my loot for say an enchantment or epic raw gem? Just a suggestion.
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