Dev Watercooler – MoP Looting Explained

100 Troll Druid
17215
03/27/2012 02:39 PMPosted by Ninetales
Here’s how the new Raid Finder system will work in Mists of Pandaria:
If you want to save up your Charms for heroic bosses, go for it.Please explain?
Explain what?

I'm guessing the Charms don't have expiration timers or stack limits, in which case if you wanted to continue doing dailies "in case you need gear for your third spec" or if you get lucky one week and don't need to use them at all, you can still save it for next week, at which point you will have 2 instead of one.


The watercooler was about LFR but he implies that the bonus roll is not LFR specific when he talks about saving them from heroic boss's

To the poster with the question
Please explain?
He added in bonus things as well as explaining the LFR loot system:
AOE loot
Bonus Roll
Valor Changes

If this is not the case the wording needs to be fixed because it comes across as bonus rolls are going to be global not lfr/world boss specific.

It sounds great. All of it sounds great. I'm particularly excited about the valor being used to increase power instead of purchasing items.
Edited by Reveries on 3/27/2012 2:49 PM PDT
90 Orc Shaman
19875
03/27/2012 02:40 PMPosted by Greedi
So, in what way is getting gear for our offspecs detrimental to the rest of the players?


It's not, but it's the easiest way to determine what gear you want. Currently it is my choice to pass on enhance gear as Resto. If Enhance gear was included in my possible drops, it would halve the chances of me getting gear for the spec I queued as: Resto.

That's not to say they couldn't come up with a way to set your raid role, and also set your desired roll spec.
90 Worgen Warrior
7545
This is going to end badly:

Selling Run through Heroic Raids, Bring your Charms and get double the loot!


LOL you can't drag ppl through heroics you need all the raiders to be on the ball to be-able to get close at downing a boss XD
90 Draenei Shaman
13805
03/27/2012 02:41 PMPosted by Katsup
But if you are so lucky that you actually do win a piece theres a chance it will be vender trash for you. which I understand that its somewhat like that now, but I like the idea of seeing my look before I decide if I want it or not.
You do understand that under the new system you can't "pass" the item to someone else, right? Their chance of winning loot is completely independent of yours. You're not beating someone anymore. You're just rolling against the game. If you roll a 100 and someone else rolls a 99 you both win something. So you can vendor your loot with a clear conscience because you're not depriving anyone of anything. Also note that this is only for LFR. The raids you normally run with your guild will continue to drop loot in the same manner they always have.
90 Pandaren Warrior
12740
I still dont understand why blizz can't just give is a simple answer. because there is a HUGE difference between "The top X hidden rolls receive loot" and "All hidden rolls above X get loot".

If it's the former, players will actually have LESS OF A CHANCE at loot than they do today.
Edited by Phthonus on 3/27/2012 2:48 PM PDT
90 Draenei Shaman
13805
I still dont understand why blizz can't just give is a simple answer. because there is a HUGE difference between "The top X hidden rolls receive loot" and "All hidden rolls above X get loot".

If it's the former, players will actually have LESS OF A CHANCE at loot than they do today.
They gave us a simple answer:

For those looking for more detail, here's what's happening behind the scenes:

  • The boss dies.
  • Each player has a chance to win loot, independent of the other players.
  • For each player who wins loot, the game randomly assigns them a spec-appropriate item from that boss’s loot table. This subset contains only items that the game (meaning the designers in this case) thinks are appropriate for your class and current spec.
  • Notice that you aren’t rolling Need or Greed. You don’t have an option to Pass. The game just says “Take this.”
  • You can’t trade this item, or that would defeat the purpose of removing the social pressure on groups of strangers. If you don’t want the item, you are free to vendor, delete, or disenchant it.


TL;DR - It's not the former. It's all rolls above X get loot.
Edited by Ronduwil on 3/27/2012 2:51 PM PDT
90 Blood Elf Paladin
17515
I think you should allow the option to roll on offspec since youre removing the ability to need,greed,pass. This would still give us a choice. There's some inherent problems with not being able to roll on offspec loot that I think that could remedy.
85 Blood Elf Rogue
Eka
11070
I simply disagree with this band-aid fix. There are so many flaws with LFR it's clear it's yet another beast. All this will do is repeatedly give you the same item you don't want over and over and over again.

The real flaw is the players it caters to, and their lethargic laziness. That aside, LFR will turn into Molten Core 2.0. 40 people, 2 pieces of loot, and 80% of the loot table is garbage. I remember a story about a raid that got Priest gloves once, and then never again in a year. Hell, armory my rogue. I still haven't upgraded from LFR belt, among other items. But damnit if our alts don't all have heroic Conc Gloves. We've got heroic Conc Gloves. Anyone in the market for heroic Conc Gloves? We're selling heroic Conc Gloves. We're also selling that @#$%ty dodge trinket off spine. We've gotten our 6th dodge trinket. Anyone? DODGE trinket! Hear it's good in the pvps.
100 Human Paladin
17295
03/27/2012 02:19 PMPosted by Tripinbubble
Now I do know that you can always just Que up in your off spec, but some people just do not have the gear needed, so they want to gear it up using RF.


We understand some players are interested in off-spec or transmogrification loot, and we will consider future changes to the system to accommodate those desires. However, we’re not sure fundamentally that Raid Finder is the best avenue for acquiring that loot. You would either need to take it from another player who actually desires it for their main spec, or a conversation would have to take place to make sure nobody else needed it more than you do


Presto!
85 Tauren Druid
6775
I'm hoping that there will be a unique tag put on things such as rings, weapons, trinkets etc. So that you don't keep getting the same loot over and over.

There is also the problem say in 10man groups when there's 1 tank fights, but for others you need 2 tanks. Do you have to switch the tanks every week so they can get tank loot of the boss? The system your putting in place makes perfect sense for raid finder. It couldn't be much better for it.

It does run into problems with 10mans were some classes are changing rolls depending on boss fights and strategy. Biggest problem is going to be with weapons, but trinkets will also be pretty troublesome.

At the moment I'm tanking maybe half of DS, dpsing the rest. Is this not going to happen at all in MoP? Cause if loots just handed out based on your current spec it will cause problems. It also forces and pigeon holes people into the spec they raid as, even if its not the spec they don't want to play, raid comp availability will never be ideal.
100 Troll Druid
17215
I still dont understand why blizz can't just give is a simple answer. because there is a HUGE difference between "The top X hidden rolls receive loot" and "All hidden rolls above X get loot".

If it's the former, players will actually have LESS OF A CHANCE at loot than they do today.


Less of a chance to win loot but a guaranteed chance if they win that it is usable for that spec. They will be able to tweak the chances people have at winning something. If they want people to win less they will lower the chances if they want them to win more they will raise them. Its not something blizzard has to set in stone on implementation.
Edited by Reveries on 3/27/2012 2:53 PM PDT
85 Draenei Paladin
5100
Well what if your on a hybrid class, and your gearing up your OS, and you play your main spec because it is better geared, will I not be able to get OS armor. ex. Me playing holy in LFR or Heroic dungeons to get prot armor.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
12090
This is going to end badly:

Selling Run through Heroic Raids, Bring your Charms and get double the loot!


LOL you can't drag ppl through heroics you need all the raiders to be on the ball to be-able to get close at downing a boss XD


This happens all the time on my server, actually. Guilds that have cleared the content can easily carry others through. They're even selling Ragnaros and Deathwing dropped mounts for mountains of gold.
90 Tauren Hunter
8340
I am so far interested in the changes ^~^

also in this mantid queen...oh yes, there will be mantid queen blood

Happy Hunting:D
100 Human Rogue
17175
Was "perhaps because you went all Bladestorm on a bunch of hozen" also dirtier than you intended, Ghostcrawler? I thought it was hilarious.

Anyway, yeah, the only issue I can see is if say, a Rogue wanted the lfr color of the int leather from the raid, but you addressed that. I have to say, I don't see any problems with it, and it should ease a little bit of the tension in lfr raids and stop pugs for the World Bosses from having a ninja raid leader.
90 Pandaren Shaman
14030
Looks like a great change! Look forward to it!
100 Human Priest
19865
Well, at least hard mode raiders won't have much of a reason to run LFR past the first week of the expansion, so I guess it's a decent change. Too bad I'm not excited about anything else in the expansion.
90 Human Death Knight
9035
Suggestions:
1) make AOE looting instant instead of looting items one by one
2) provide a visual queue prior to looting to make it easier to determine whether it is worth looting or not (i.e. is there a purple in that loot? a blue?)

I haven't played SWTOR or Rift, but some of the comments at MMOP mention those distinct benefits of their AOE looting scheme.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/2700-Mists-of-Pandaria-Beta-AoE-Loot

The AOE looting concept sounds pretty cool, but it brings to mind the limited bagspace problem.
I have used addons in the past to auto-delete greys or items that I pre-specify.
http://www.curse.com/addons/wow/loot-filter / http://lootfilter.com

Not sure if there is an API hook for it to toss items prior to storage into bags.

Related to the limited bag space issue, why not increase the stack count on various items?
As a healer, I want to have like 80 mana foods on me when healing random 5-mans. This means I have 4 bag spaces occupied. If I am a skinner or herbalist the craziness compounds as all my bag spots fill up during a 5-man. I have won rolls and not realized until later that the loot didn't go into my bags. Now I always double check.
21 Goblin Hunter
9060
03/27/2012 02:52 PMPosted by Shendor
Now I do know that you can always just Que up in your off spec, but some people just do not have the gear needed, so they want to gear it up using RF.


We understand some players are interested in off-spec or transmogrification loot, and we will consider future changes to the system to accommodate those desires. However, we’re not sure fundamentally that Raid Finder is the best avenue for acquiring that loot. You would either need to take it from another player who actually desires it for their main spec, or a conversation would have to take place to make sure nobody else needed it more than you do


Presto!


And again, I just pointed out the hypocrisy in that post. Their reasoning is that we would take it away from another player.

Based on what we've been told, No We Wouldn't.

The Raid Finder would duplicate loot as needed.

It also removes what I currently do: Queue as Healer with a DPS friend who wants healing gear. I get the DPS gear, they get the healing gear. It's no more unfair than anyone else. We both still only get 1 shot at each piece of gear, it's simply the fact I enjoy healing, he enjoys DPSing, we just want the other side of gear.

This system will DRASTICALLY increase queue times, and soon blizzard will realize that. You think the 17-30 minute queues for DPS in LFR are bad now? Just wait until half the healers queue as DPS in order to get DPS gear. Say hello to 2 hour queues.
90 Blood Elf Paladin
12090
03/27/2012 02:53 PMPosted by Driiha
Well what if your on a hybrid class, and your gearing up your OS, and you play your main spec because it is better geared, will I not be able to get OS armor. ex. Me playing holy in LFR or Heroic dungeons to get prot armor.


Blizzard is aware that some people want to queue as one spec and get gear for another spec. The current implementation does not allow this, but Blizzard will consider methods of doing it.
Edited by Kathuckae on 3/27/2012 3:13 PM PDT
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