Unless I'm mistaken, there are still only so many items that will be handed out when a boss is downed though correct? I mean, true RNG would imply that possibly every raid member in say DS 25 could get a spec specific epic item every boss. Each of the 25 people would roll against the RNG once the boss goes down, and theoretically all of them could get an item.
However, unless I read wrong, what is going to happen is the boss dies, and everyone rolls, and a few lucky are selected for an item, which will change depending on their class and spec. As a byproduct of this, if my guildies (which are fully geared) help me, by running DS with me, the boss will die and we will all be rolling against the RNG for items. If my guildies are already geared and just running it to help me, there is a chance they would get items, and not myself. They wouldn't need the items, or want the items, but once the boss dies they will have to roll just like I do. Theoretically we could then run DS multiple times and only the people without the need for gear would get it. There should be an option to bypass rolling against the RNG, so just the people that need gear roll to see if they get items.
Then run normal/heroic instead of LFR? Besides, even with the current LFR system, the RNG already determines what drops. The only reason for the Need before Greed system in the first place is because people were competing for items.
The latter is correct.
The whole point of the new system is that each person's chance to win loot is completely independent from another's. If there were only x number of winners, then as you say, they demonstrably wouldn't be ndependent.
So unless GC grossly misworded his blog, then we have to assume that, yes, there's a miniscule chance all 25 LFR members could win loot off the same boss.
Unless you were reading some other blue text more recently that implied the other method?
6 Troll Shaman
Edited by Horotzarn on 5/16/12 11:29 AM (PDT)
The changes to valor, i think, may be horrible.
There are so many adverts for people doing PuG raids and if the only way you have to gear up for those regular version raids is LFR gear, you are potentially very screwed.
Valor points provided a great way to subsidize the RNG factor of loot drops. If Blizzard takes this away, it's potentially going to be a mistake which will cause raiding to be more inaccessible to the more casually inclined player base who are currently able to log on and get into a iLvl-required pug because they have VP gear.
TL;DR : VP Changes potentially suck hard
I do not know if this has been covered but the group "Disenchant button... will it be staying or going?
O.P. mentioned that you will be able to vendor, equip or disenchant but did NOT specify if non-enchanters will be able to disenchant repeat gear.
An arcid hate hangs in the haze and a question hangs in the air...
When will you RAGE?
Sigh, so apparently I have to wait till MoP to get a feature (Loot Nearby Corpses) that's been in all of the recent MMOs.
//Saying this while killing trash in Kara for the D%#@! of the Righteous (it'll look awesome in my T1!)
I think Blizz is looking at this all wrong. It's not JUST the fact that you're rolling against other players who potentially have better gear, do not require the items in question, or simply feel the need to make others lives miserable; see quotes Troll and Umadbro on wiki. Essentially not all players expect option c, but it would be nice to have a little more to work with.
Example Model A: Boss goes down for the 100th time this expan, still has yet to drop 'Sword of Ogre Slaying', rest of raidgroup sees redundancy to run outdated raid.
Example Model B: Boss goes down for the 10th time this expan, dropped 'Sword of Ogre Slaying' for the 10th time, someone else always wins roll.
Example Model C: Boss wipe #13 and no sign of looking good, and then on attempt 14 you down him, AHHH! Awesome sword that is great for... my class... that... the tanking... DK... won.
Example Model D: Boss dropped 4 of the same item that only 1 person in the raidgroup needed.
These are all redundant in nature. The new loot system shows signs of progress, but is inheritly limited by the boss model itself. The current is Trash -> Boss -> Trash -> Boss. Regardless of how much time you've vested into the game or raid instance, you inevitably fall victim to the RNG. Even in the new model the boss is limited in giving items to 4 (10m 2) people, with an average chance of 5.625% of receiving an item, based on the assumtion the game decides that you specificly get an item. If the game decides that these 4 items dropped, and the 3 players can use it, your chances actually don't change.
Allbeit these numbers are drawn up based on Raid Finder, as a raidgroup can be tailored, Raidfinder seems to like pitting 7 hunters against each other, and then dropping no hunter loot. LOL. Another LOL worthy moment would be the amount of rogue only weapons in DS not to mention the legendary daggers? Rogue love <3
i dont like the dea of spec cherry picking.
i say select a spec at the start of the run and your rolls will all be considered that spec.
if chooisng a spec as opposed to 'your current spec' were ever implemented
While this new loot system seems like it may work, does it take into account players having higher iLvL tier pieces or items? The other day a couple of guildies from a different server in full heroic went into an LFR and received a lot of the LFR items to DE or vendor leaving the people that actually needed them high and dry. Will this not be the case in MoP?
Silly question I am sure. But is this only for the lfr stuff? Or will this looting be applied to full guild runs outside the lfr? If so, will there be an option to turn it off?
I can see this killing guild raids, I only say this since the guild I run with shares the loot that drops.
Again, silly question I know, but can someone fill me in here.
Edited by Quilland on 6/12/12 7:04 PM (PDT)
You didn't have to wait until MOP to fix the stupidity you created by not only allowing but actively rewarding anti-social abuse of the loot-trading system.
Fix it now, or better yet build the time machine and fix it 5 months ago like you should have. Make the LFR loot non-tradable. That fixes most of the abuse. Not all but most the people are needing on stuff to abuse the loot trading system so they get more than one roll on loot.
Another problem I see from the description you only get spec applicable loot...ever. Jim Bob is currently a fury warrior who wants to switch to tanking. Unfortunately Jim Bob will only see fury gear drop so long as he is fury specced. So Jim Bob has to switch to protection spec without any protection gear. Unfortunately for Jim Bob, and any poor sots who get stuck in random groups with him, Jim Bob is gonna be about as sturdy as a wet tissue paper for quite a while as he gets gear.
Edited by Jujubiju on 6/12/12 8:00 PM (PDT)
You aren't rolling against anyone- what the other person's ilvl is will not matter.
Because people can't play fair. The change is needed. It'll hopefully eliminate a lot of the forum outrage at the current looting system.
A few things:
1) If a guild took their alts through then, once saved to loot, rotated in X players per boss where X is the number of drops... every player would receive a spec-related item?
2) Who decides what is spec appropriate? I highly doubt Guardians would be given a Vial of Shadows as a tanking item under the rules because blizzard are atrocious at designing and categorizing items. (I bet if darkmoon card: volcano was in there smite priests would not have seen it as an option).
3) If we dont get offspec loot from lfr and we dont get offspec loot from raid (because it's busy going to the boomkin and resto for example) and now we dont get it from valor... where do we get it from?
This will cause a lot of issues for players who do play multiple roles but share no items (ret/holy, enh/resto, guardian/boomkin etc)
The simplest thing would be let us pick a "loot role" whenever we enter LFR. If someone queues as dps/heals but wants shadow gear, allow them to select the loot role and then whatever they do they'll still receive the appropriate items.
The other option would be to allow us to pick which loot categories we can receive from (this'd be slightly more complicated but ultimately similar to above just more advanced). I could queue as a tank but choose, say, guardian and boomkin, or just feral, or even bearcatchicktree! This would definitely help improve the quality of players in lfr, by not forcing them to use a mishmash or poor gear just to gear up in lfr.
I do fear I shall receive the short end of the shaft on loot drops regarding gearing my main and offspecs unless a change is implemented to your plans... please get on to it asap!
Edited by Redfurs on 6/20/12 10:22 PM (PDT)
This is the link to my thread
anyway giving an item directly as in LFR MOP Loots are actually bad idea.
For better explanation read this threads,
the TS really a pro at explaining things....
Anyway, your solution for this matter is giving us a lucky charm. However it is also a bad idea in my opinion, why ? Because with this, again we, the player playing by RNG, and of course it won't make us happy if we don't get the gears that we want. And it's actually bad for Blizzard, because it will make more items drops per run. The more items drops per week, meaning it will make less player to queue at latter time. And the expansion time will be shortened.
But the way it is now, in LFR, ninja are everywhere, they press on the need, even they didnt know what the item is, and yes, this also need a solution.
The solution is simple, instead of making the lucky charm gives random items from the boss, why not making the lucky charm adding the base roll ?
When the person using lucky charm, s/he increasing he/her base roll number only for the next items that s/he needs, the concept is the same as role bonus in nowadays LFR roll, 75 bonus point per charm is good. With this you can still lost roll with the person that are extremely lucky and not using a charm, but you can counter it by using 2 charms at 1 roll. The right price of the lucky charm is 1/4 of average usage of VP Gears. In Cata, it aprox 300-500 VP.
My added suggestion is to limit the charm usage per items, like 3 per roll. You still compete in order to win with RNG, but it will make more a fair fight. I mean VP is limited per week, and when you lost, you lost your VP. While adding that, Blizzard also need to give all the raids members a warning if someone using a charm to win the roll, and ask if you are also want to compete by using your charms.
To redeem the lost of the people which is losing their roll while using charm, give them a half of the VP cost of the charm in return, or anything that less than the gears like gems, but again not the gears.
Why this is a better solution ?
1. With this solution, people will get the gears that they really want, not the random thing.This will eventually make them to stop breaking their keyboard/mouse when for a 3 month in a row they rolling on the same boss and get nothing (this is a sarcastic joke, but you know, this is my second month trying to get the healing shield in LFR raid, and always lost at rolling)
2. There is still a competition between players that really want the gears. This actually make the game more chalenging. I mean, if you want to get the gears faster, you have to sacrifice your VP.
3. Ninja have to sacrifice their VP to get the gears. I mean which kind of stupid person that will sacrifice his/her hard work, only to be sold to NPC ? Well the NPC won't be happy with this, but Blizzard need more happy player, not a HAPPY NPC....
4. Everyone will have a proggression by going thru LFR, with this, your chance of getting a gears in LFR is up by the number of the charm that you have. If no one using a charm, roll happens as usual, and someone still getting the gears. But incase there is a gears/items that we really want, we have our power to change our roll number. There is still RNG here, but it is more fair, since the one that using charm is sacrificing their VP to get the items.
5. Constant drops rate per run on a week, meaning players will extend the times they are using LFR. This is a benefit for blizzard, because the game will stayed longer before the next expansion arrive. It will make people spent their VP either at trying to win the rolls by using charms, or choose to dump their VP for a moment and buying the gears at VP Vendors. For the player, it means a faster queue, because most people still need LFR either to win gears, or getting VP.
6. Every man for himself, it means, even if you bring 20 people to the LFR, your chance of winning will be the same. Because again,people have to sacrifice their charms in order to compete with the man that using his charms. So it is useless to bring a guild members in the LFR when none of the guild members bringing along a charm to compete.
7. Offspec can compete to win the rolls. With role bonus system, the priority is still given to the spec that goes to the LFR, however with a sacrifice of using charms, offspec still can compete to win the roll.
This solution is also good to be implemented on world boss drops, or in LFG.
Oh and for another player that perhaps share the same idea, please give feedback to the link i provide
Diablo 3 is a terrible terrible game, but the one thing it does very well is its item hunting (the game revolves around it).
Has any thought gone into a hybrid wow/d3 system where stats are randomised (and made more appealing to all classes e.g int gives resits to tanks)? Where raid bosses drop the best ilvl loot, but through itemisation jackpots and just downright extremely rare world drops there is an overlap in gear?
I.e a really good roll on stats for a world drop is better that a really poor roll on a heroic raid drop?
Obviously raid bosses would always drop loot for everyone similar to D3... I dunno it just seems like a more rewarding/impressive system, if you can make a variety of stats appealing without having your BIS list setup in advance.
Edited by Jhynn on 6/20/12 11:43 PM (PDT)
The changes to valor, i think, may be horrible.
Welcome back to Vanilla looting. You either get the piece you want or you do not. Period. But in this case, you won't be able to farm the dungeons for the item you need. These are raid rewards, which are only able to be ran once a week.
If your gear doesn't drop, too bad. Try again next week.
If the gear is for a class you don't have in raid, too bad. Try again next week.
If you don't get the gear you needed in this patch prior to the next one, to bad. Try again next patch.
If you are trying to gear alts, I feel sorry for you. The Grind is back.
Having played in Vanilla where LBRS/UBRS runs were the norm for quite a bit, I am struggling to see why the reward system is a step backward, not forward. That didn't work in reverting to Vanilla/TBC level difficulty in Heroic dungeons.
When it stops being fun, people stop participating. For many, that 'fun' is wrapped up in rewards.
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." ~ Albert Einstein