Haste = God?

100 Night Elf Death Knight
16280
Before anyone says anything, I have seen that haste isn't EVERYONE's god-stat, so don't bother saying so.

Now Blizzard, I can see from the new talent system that you're indeed opposed to min-maxing, hence the removal of the old talent system. Now, another question. What about the substats, haste, crit, mastery? Why do so many classes/specs only do well if Haste is their main stat? I personally find haste a boring stat, and would much prefer Mastery or Crit in my personal play style (hence why I played unholy for a while and only switched back to frost when it was discovered that Mastery was indeed competitive). It still seems that you're making the god-stat haste for several specs. The flurry talent in the Fury tree (and the various other forms of it in other trees), once relying on crits, now procs based off of white hits, once again making either haste or hit the god-stat, and looks like it'd penalize any player who decieded that he wants to see more crits or see nice numbers from his mastery. I recently discovered that Mages get a skill that that increased their mana regen based off of their haste rating, mana regen being much more important now with static pools. I'm not bombing on players that enjoy stacking haste rating, more power to them. I'm simply tired of having to stack haste to compete dps-wise, because for the most part, I find Haste a boring stat. I'd much rather up my frost damage, or proc Main Gauche, or have a bigger shield from Illuminated Healing. You want customization? Let us decide what we want to reforge after capping our accuracy.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Paladin
11915
Really? I'd love haste to be my best stat, it's the one that actually changes how you play. Other stats are just bigger numbers, haste lets you hit more or better buttons.
Reply Quote
90 Human Paladin
8390
More is better than stronger for most classes.
Reply Quote
100 Blood Elf Paladin
12735
03/27/2012 07:27 PMPosted by Nakara
Now Blizzard, I can see from the new talent system that you're indeed opposed to min-maxing, hence the removal of the old talent system.


Really? Because I see the new talent system as being the exact opposite, you're going to min/max your talents based on the specifics of the encounter. From what I see, this game is quite the opposite.

As for the rest of your post, there's nothing stopping you from doing all those things other than the fact that you'll do more damage stacking haste instead. I hate inquisition and the entire Holy Power system, doesn't mean I don't utilize those things to the best of my ability because I like doing good dps.
Reply Quote
85 Troll Hunter
7950
As a hunter I feel that all 3 secondary stats are really really boring. ):
Reply Quote
94 Night Elf Rogue
11975
03/27/2012 11:23 PMPosted by Pruney
As a hunter I feel that all 3 secondary stats are really really boring. ):


Bu-bu-but, THREE steady shots!
Reply Quote
100 Troll Warrior
19435
03/27/2012 09:40 PMPosted by Templa
Now Blizzard, I can see from the new talent system that you're indeed opposed to min-maxing, hence the removal of the old talent system.


Really? Because I see the new talent system as being the exact opposite, you're going to min/max your talents based on the specifics of the encounter. From what I see, this game is quite the opposite.

^
Min/Max was not choosing say, Annihilation over Icy Reach and Lichborne. That's called "not being an idiot." There isn't a min/max in the current talent system, there's a right way, and a few filler talents that work on a fight by fight basis. The new system just gives us the talents included in the "right way," and then lets us pick a few cool talents. And the cool talents are infinitely better than Endless Winter vs On a Pale Horse.
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Death Knight
12055
03/28/2012 12:18 AMPosted by Sildas
Min/Max was not choosing say, Annihilation over Icy Reach and Lichborne. That's called "not being an idiot." There isn't a min/max in the current talent system, there's a right way, and a few filler talents that work on a fight by fight basis. The new system just gives us the talents included in the "right way," and then lets us pick a few cool talents. And the cool talents are infinitely better than Endless Winter vs On a Pale Horse.

This.

Pre-4.0, everyone had one (maybe two) talent builds that were considered optimal. Those generally had a couple "pick up X or Y depending what you're doing most" points, but that's basically it.

4.0 tried to fix that by vastly consolidating the mandatory talents and making it harder to sacrifice utility for damage, but you had the same problem.

5.0 says "okay, here's all your damage stuff, now pick the cool utility you want." It's a better system, because it more closely matches what they're actually doing.
Reply Quote
90 Draenei Hunter
12990
03/28/2012 03:13 AMPosted by Krinu
Min/Max was not choosing say, Annihilation over Icy Reach and Lichborne. That's called "not being an idiot." There isn't a min/max in the current talent system, there's a right way, and a few filler talents that work on a fight by fight basis. The new system just gives us the talents included in the "right way," and then lets us pick a few cool talents. And the cool talents are infinitely better than Endless Winter vs On a Pale Horse.

This.

Pre-4.0, everyone had one (maybe two) talent builds that were considered optimal. Those generally had a couple "pick up X or Y depending what you're doing most" points, but that's basically it.

4.0 tried to fix that by vastly consolidating the mandatory talents and making it harder to sacrifice utility for damage, but you had the same problem.

5.0 says "okay, here's all your damage stuff, now pick the cool utility you want." It's a better system, because it more closely matches what they're actually doing.
And the way the new system is, all the cool utility choices are available to every spec (see: Silencing Shot for hunters). As long as you have damage vs. anything, damage wins. Which is one reason I really don't care for ToR.
Reply Quote
100 Night Elf Death Knight
16280
Elidra: Like I said, if you like haste, go for it. Just don't force me to play haste to do good dps.

Templa: Class design/mechanics isn't something that you can decide: stats are (or as the point of my post is, should be).

The point being, I think that stats of course should have a meaningful effect on gameplay, but I'm tired of some of my favorite styles requiring haste-dominance when I'd rather be scoring crits or taking advantage of a unique spec power. I find Main Gauche/Wild Quiver/Strikes of Opportunity rather interesting, but according to everyone, it's Haste or nothing. Same with most casters (Fire mages being the only exception that i know of due to their Hot Streak mechanics)
Reply Quote
85 Blood Elf Mage
11080
Arcane mages have a very very low haste ceiling
some where around 1250 approx
Reply Quote
I'm very glad that i'm not at the mercy of the haste leash that so many other classes have to deal with. enhancement gearing is very simple and fun i.e. not requiring a math degree to figure out what's best with what.
Reply Quote
85 Orc Warrior
3510
um... dont play a dk then? not like this is a recent stat weight change
Edited by Gorbank on 3/29/2012 2:57 AM PDT
Reply Quote
As a Combat Rogue, I agree. I am TIRED of haste. I like my character hitting fast and I like my energy pool to go up quickly, but it's really getting out of control for Combat. I think Mastery and Crit are also interesting stats that I barely ever get to think about.
Reply Quote
100 Orc Warlock
15585
03/27/2012 08:46 PMPosted by Judgesyou
More is better than stronger for most classes.


Actually, the reason haste is better for a lot of classes is because it takes a lot less rating to get 1% of it. 1% haste is 128.06 rating, compared to 179.28 rating for 1% crit or 1.00 mastery. If crit and haste rating took the same amount of rating for 1%, crit would be better in virtually all cases. This is due to the meta gem that increases crit damage, as well as the fact that abilities with short cooldowns (like Hand of Gul'dan or Conflagrate for Warlocks) don't have their cooldowns reduced by haste.
Reply Quote
90 Human Paladin
8390
03/29/2012 08:17 AMPosted by Vreivai
Actually, the reason haste is better for a lot of classes is because it takes a lot less rating to get 1% of it.


Not really. Getting more attacks and resources is better for the classes that stack haste.
Reply Quote
85 Gnome Warlock
2130
Actually, the reason haste is better for a lot of classes is because it takes a lot less rating to get 1% of it.


Not really. Getting more attacks and resources is better for the classes that stack haste.


It's actually a combination of both. It's one of the reasons why Haste is so great for caster DPS specs. It's not so much that Crit or Mastery are bad, it's how incredibly cheap Haste rating is. Haste is worth 1% at 128 rating, while Crit and Mastery are around 179 per point. This means that Haste is giving you its stat benefit for 50 rating cheaper than alternatives. That adds up quickly when you start reaching 2000+ in a secondary.

I guarantee if Haste required 179 rating, Haste's priority would drop for many. For others like Combat Rogues, sure Haste would stay ahead just due to their design. But for Death Knights and many casters for example, Haste would drop to the number 2 and possibly even number 3 stat based on your spec.
Edited by Eviltime on 3/29/2012 10:30 AM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Undead Death Knight
6740
Elidra: Like I said, if you like haste, go for it. Just don't force me to play haste to do good dps.

Templa: Class design/mechanics isn't something that you can decide: stats are (or as the point of my post is, should be).

The point being, I think that stats of course should have a meaningful effect on gameplay, but I'm tired of some of my favorite styles requiring haste-dominance when I'd rather be scoring crits or taking advantage of a unique spec power. I find Main Gauche/Wild Quiver/Strikes of Opportunity rather interesting, but according to everyone, it's Haste or nothing. Same with most casters (Fire mages being the only exception that i know of due to their Hot Streak mechanics)


Unfortunately, as a DK, the play style for either DPS tree is horrendously frantic. And stacking haste only makes the matter worse.
Reply Quote
90 Troll Hunter
6100
Crit is more fun and less confusing for most people. With haste breakpoints being important to so many classes, it makes it a stat that doesn't always benefit as much as it says it does due to strict rotation requirements. You could have 3000 more haste than the next guy, but if you are messing up your rotation, which can strange drastically from one haste level to the next, you might actually be doing less damage.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)

Reported!

[Close]