Dual-Wielding 2.6 speed weapons.

90 Human Rogue
13295
First, I would like to link a post from MMO-Champion to show that there is support for this subject.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/1106593-New-Combat-Potency-Dual-wielding-swords-again

The changes to poisons, and their procs support this.
The most recent change to combat potency supports this.
The Community supports this.

Please, oh please allow us to dual-wield 2.6 swords/axes/maces/fist weapons as combat come MOP. Leave the daggers for the assassin's and subtlety rogues!

Many rogue's dont like feeling like they "have" to be combat just for the cleave with blade flurry. If blade flurry is made to be similar to a warrior's raging blow, or a frost DK's obliterate, an enh shaman's stormstrike, then the use of 2.6 weapons would be gaurenteed AND will be meaningfull to the class. This would aslo make Killing Spree be a much more appreciated CD to use too!
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90 Human Rogue
12135
i dont know if i care so much about weapon speed and what they decide to do with it so much as my freedom to trans my items more freely. if i could make my items look like i wanted i wouldnt care about game mechanics so much.
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
14930
03/29/2012 05:05 PMPosted by Corayo
The changes to poisons, and their procs support this.


Actually, they don't. If anything the changes to poisons is strictly against the idea of double slow weapons. All poisons are now proc per hit, which means that fast weapons are always better for poisons because more swings will mean more procs.
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90 Human Rogue
13295
03/29/2012 10:10 PMPosted by Pancakê
The changes to poisons, and their procs support this.


Actually, they don't. If anything the changes to poisons is strictly against the idea of double slow weapons. All poisons are now proc per hit, which means that fast weapons are always better for poisons because more swings will mean more procs.


they were changed so that slower weapons have a greater chance to proc them though, so yes it does.
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85 Orc Rogue
11425
Deadly Poison:

Coats a weapon with poison that lasts for 1 hour.
Each strike has a 30% chance of poisoning the enemy for (127 * 4) Nature damage over 12 sec. Stacks up to 5 times on a single target. Once stacked to 5 times, each application of Deadly Poison also causes the poison on the Rogue's other weapon to apply.


A faster weapon will still yield more poison damage.

They changed the scaling of Combat Potency to scale with weapon speed, because they aren't going to have 1.4 daggers anymore in MOP. If they didn't do this, everyone would still use the 1.4 speed daggers from this tier for quite a long time, because even with worse stats, the poison damage and Combat Potency procs would blow away higher ilevel 1.8 daggers.

They only way dual 2.6 weapons might be superior is if it happens to be vastly higher ilevel than the 1.8 offhand you currently have equipped in MOP.
Edited by Blacksad on 3/31/2012 5:54 PM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
14930
03/31/2012 04:44 PMPosted by Corayo
they were changed so that slower weapons have a greater chance to proc them though, so yes it does.


No, that's the way instant, and wound poison currently work. In MoP they're making ALL poisons have a flat proc chance that is always the same regardless of weapon speed. Which means that faster weapons will be universally better for all poisons.
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
12460
Also killing spree is now 7 assaults instead of 5 so a 2.6 OH will deal even more damage now during KS.
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85 Orc Rogue
11425
03/31/2012 10:53 PMPosted by Nbkilla
Also killing spree is now 7 assaults instead of 5 so a 2.6 OH will deal even more damage now during KS


They still haven't implemented the new version of Killing Spree. It's supposed to be much like the Legendary Daggers proc, where you do multiple 5 point finishers every second for the duration of Killing Spree. Weather that is going to be implemented or not remains to be seen, but as of the last info on it's revamp, that is what they said.

Even if Killing Spree stayed similar to how it is now, having a 2.6 offhand wouldn't boost KS damage enough to overtake the large amount of raw poison damage you would put out with a 1.8 offhand.
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85 Human Rogue
1900
I agree, the talents are forcing us to use a specific set of weapons that makes no sense. Who the hell would even fight with a sword and a dagger, its like trying to run with a high heeled shoe on one foot and a running shoe on the other.
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85 Orc Rogue
11425
Fighting with a short offhand dagger for parrying is actually significantly more common than dual wielding two long swords.

Kind of like our mastery's namesake:

The main-gauche (French for "left hand"), is used mainly to assist in parrying incoming thrusts, while the dominant hand wields a rapier or similar longer weapon intended for one-handed use. It may also be used for attack if an opportunity arises. The general category includes two more specific kinds of weapon: sword breakers and trident daggers.


It made more sense when they came up with the mastery, considering it uses a main hand strike now. But, yeah, that's where the idea came from.
Edited by Blacksad on 3/31/2012 11:40 PM PDT
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85 Human Rogue
1900
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parrying_dagger

This article made the concept of a fast off hand make more sense, but I still like the option of choosing between two different options as opposed to having only one choice.
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85 Orc Rogue
11425
Nah, I understand that, and really wouldn't mind at all if they implemented a means for offhands to be equal, regardless of type. I just don't want to see a bunch of Combat Rogues running around with inappropriate weapons in MOP due to misinformation.

It's still early however, so they might change things around to make that happen, who knows.
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
12970
03/31/2012 11:04 PMPosted by Blacksad
They still haven't implemented the new version of Killing Spree. It's supposed to be much like the Legendary Daggers proc, where you do multiple 5 point finishers every second for the duration of Killing Spree. Weather that is going to be implemented or not remains to be seen, but as of the last info on it's revamp, that is what they said.


I think they are giving up on that idea and it's remaining how it is on live. Same with Vendetta. It seems that way, since the recently buffed it.
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85 Orc Rogue
11925
04/01/2012 09:15 AMPosted by Knocrogue
They still haven't implemented the new version of Killing Spree. It's supposed to be much like the Legendary Daggers proc, where you do multiple 5 point finishers every second for the duration of Killing Spree. Weather that is going to be implemented or not remains to be seen, but as of the last info on it's revamp, that is what they said.


I think they are giving up on that idea and it's remaining how it is on live. Same with Vendetta. It seems that way, since the recently buffed it.


Buffed in the sense of damage output, but now we'll be even more prone to death in a raid environment while using it.
So many close calls as it is. QQ
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
12970
Nevermind it is working atm.
Glyph of Killing Spree
Minor Glyph
Your Killing Spree returns you to your starting location when the effect ends.

That will fix pretty much everything, I think.
Edited by Knocrogue on 4/1/2012 11:47 AM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
Vex
9280
Nevermind it is working atm.
Glyph of Killing Spree
Minor Glyph
Your Killing Spree returns you to your starting location when the effect ends.

That will fix pretty much everything, I think.
It shouldn't need to be a glyph - even a minor glyph. No class should have to glyph one of their primary CDs, and a talent tree ending choice CD at that, just to remove the liability of it killing you. I've played just just about every class in the game, none but rogue have I ever had to go through the thought process, "Will this kill me?" Before every time I'm activating a major DPS cooldown.
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
12970
Yah, is shouldn't. Shame all Combat Rogues are going to have to waste a minor glyph slot with this.
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90 Human Rogue
13295
Fighting with a short offhand dagger for parrying is actually significantly more common than dual wielding two long swords.

Kind of like our mastery's namesake:

The main-gauche (French for "left hand"), is used mainly to assist in parrying incoming thrusts, while the dominant hand wields a rapier or similar longer weapon intended for one-handed use. It may also be used for attack if an opportunity arises. The general category includes two more specific kinds of weapon: sword breakers and trident daggers.


It made more sense when they came up with the mastery, considering it uses a main hand strike now. But, yeah, that's where the idea came from.


Using a dagger in the offhand is for defense. We are rogues, not tanks. We focus on killing.

Just to use skyrim as an example, although many other games are like this. When you are sneaking you usualy use 2 daggers and do a power attack while stealthed to get a nice sneak attack off. If there is more then 1 target you have 2 options, either use invis / shadow dance till you are able to get behind him and sneak attack again (sub rogue) or pull out 2 swords keep fighting (combat rogue). There is no reason to fight with daggers without a sneak attack bonus, because their damage is very low without it. Not to mention, DW'ing swords just feels more badass as a Combat Rogue.
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90 Blood Elf Rogue
Vex
9280
04/01/2012 01:40 PMPosted by Corayo
Using a dagger in the offhand is for defense. We are rogues, not tanks. We focus on killing.
Using a dagger in the off-hand allows for better balance, quicker striking, and easier parrying (you know, getting their weapon out of your way) than wielding a larger, slower weapon. Wielding two full-size weapons is awkward at best and wasn't implemented in many fighting styles for a reason. An opponent using a smaller off-hand weapon had a sizable advantage over you. Later it was realized further that using only a single blade actually was even more advantageous allowing for even more precise, nimble movement. Which is why more modern (relatively) sword styles use a single blade.
Edited by Caera on 4/1/2012 1:47 PM PDT
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