Ferals: immunity to poly & instant CC?

90 Undead Warrior
7390
Why do they get instant CC without a cooldown that is undispellable and they can't be polymorphed while in form? so the only way to CC them is when they are out of form for 1.5 seconds?

Why?! it's so wrong.


Not that blizzard will do anything about it until mists, but ferals need to either lose some survivability + have a reduced proc rate via internal cooldown on PS, OR reduced survivability + the choice of spending cb points on a finisher or PS, OR finally they could leave their survivability alone but remove PS completely, as it's never really been necessary.

I remember season 6, the first serious effort in 3s I had ever really made even though I'd been doing 2s since BC. I ran feral warrior disc to 2300+ ? or something and I hadn't even really come close to mastering warriors yet. As SOON as I heard they were giving ferals PS @ the start of S7 I called overpowered and unnecessary, they were fine hard casting it from S1-6. No reason for that ability, instant CCs like that only serve to reduce the skill-cap of this game... which is NOT something blizzard should be striving for IMO.

Easy to learn, difficult to master should always be their design motto.
Edited by Babypuke on 4/5/2012 3:12 AM PDT
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85 Blood Elf Rogue
4505
Why do they get instant CC without a cooldown that is undispellable and they can't be polymorphed while in form? so the only way to CC them is when they are out of form for 1.5 seconds?

Why?! it's so wrong.


Not that blizzard will do anything about it until mists, but ferals need to either lose some survivability + have a reduced proc rate via internal cooldown on PS, OR reduced survivability + the choice of spending cb points on a finisher or PS, OR finally they could leave their survivability alone but remove PS completely, as it's never really been necessary.

I remember season 6, the first serious effort in 3s I had ever really made even though I'd been doing 2s since BC. I ran feral warrior disc to 2300+ ? or something and I hadn't even really come close to mastering warriors yet. As SOON as I heard they were giving ferals PS @ the start of S7 I called overpowered and unnecessary, they were fine hard casting it from S1-6. No reason for that ability, instant CCs like that only serve to reduce the skill-cap of this game... which is NOT something blizzard should be striving for IMO.

Easy to learn, difficult to master should always be their design motto.


i totally agree with this
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86 Human Warlock
9375
Stupid rogue ignores posts proving him wrong and only acknowledges posts agreeing with him.
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You are running enhance/ret. Basically what I got out of this is: FERAL CAN SURVIVE INITIAL BURST. NERF PLEASE.

As to cyclone, if you aren't dispelling predator's swiftness you are doing it wrong.

I like how you pretend that ret/enhance has amazing burst compared to the other comps in the game.
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04/02/2012 09:07 PMPosted by Unbound
Because we have zero defensive abilities against casters?


Other classes can't barkskin while in a deep freeze. Survival instincts affects all incoming damage. Feral's excellent mobility is another constant defensive combined with a superior interrupt. This keeps the enemy casters kiting instead of freecasting into you.

Feral survivability is more than fine. You have no room to complain about it.


Which was my point...if we gave up some of our mobility / CC immunity we'd have to be compensated with some type of defensive CDs for casters, because right now (again, ignoring high mobility / immunity) we're behind the other melee in terms of their actual CDs to be used vs. casters.

edit: oh and, lol @ the mage that said bear form is the answer
Edited by Unbound on 4/5/2012 11:10 AM PDT
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85 Goblin Shaman
3680
When PS procs just use 1-2 purge 3 at most if you get it great if not don't keep spamming.
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04/05/2012 12:16 PMPosted by Kreyyn
When PS procs just use 1-2 purge 3 at most if you get it great if not don't keep spamming.


l2 play arenas
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Other classes can't barkskin while in a deep freeze. Survival instincts affects all incoming damage. Feral's excellent mobility is another constant defensive combined with a superior interrupt. This keeps the enemy casters kiting instead of freecasting into you.

Feral survivability is more than fine. You have no room to complain about it.


Which was my point...if we gave up some of our mobility / CC immunity we'd have to be compensated with some type of defensive CDs for casters, because right now (again, ignoring high mobility / immunity) we're behind the other melee in terms of their actual CDs to be used vs. casters.

edit: oh and, lol @ the mage that said bear form is the answer


if you gave up your cc immunity you would be in the exact spot that i am as an ENHANCE shaman, i have to out play every team i play, i cant just lolcyclone all day, i have to think about when i need to hex, and then i have to worry about it being dispelled, and i cant avoid cc by sitting in cat form, i have to shear or los like everyone else
Edited by Moltke on 4/6/2012 12:08 PM PDT
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90 Worgen Druid
10575
You are running enhance/ret. Basically what I got out of this is: FERAL CAN SURVIVE INITIAL BURST. NERF PLEASE.

As to cyclone, if you aren't dispelling predator's swiftness you are doing it wrong.

I like how you pretend that ret/enhance has amazing burst compared to the other comps in the game.


Of course their are other comps with better burst. They generally involve a mage and a rogue. I like how you pretend your comp isn't a burst comp at all, even though it's a straight up zerg cleave with retarded off healing.

Basically, this whole post is still FERAL CAN SURVIVE INITIAL BURST, NERF PLEASE.
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86 Human Warlock
9375


Which was my point...if we gave up some of our mobility / CC immunity we'd have to be compensated with some type of defensive CDs for casters, because right now (again, ignoring high mobility / immunity) we're behind the other melee in terms of their actual CDs to be used vs. casters.

edit: oh and, lol @ the mage that said bear form is the answer


if you gave up your cc immunity you would be in the exact spot that i am as an ENHANCE shaman, i have to out play every team i play, i cant just lolcyclone all day, i have to think about when i need to hex, and then i have to worry about it being dispelled, and i cant avoid cc by sitting in cat form, i have to shear or los like everyone else


Different classes are different. I'm sorry that you're too slow to realize that. You act like cat form is an immunity to all cc when it's an immunity to 2-3, which is no where near all of them.
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2 Tauren Priest
0
i never really saw the immune to poly/hex a big issue but the thing that was extremely retarded is just poping bear form and its pretty much "you cant kill me", i do realize druids can shapshift but bears are different from other tanks, dks, wars, rets can just pop def stance or bp and instantly become a tank, hopefully in mop this issue will be fixed
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90 Worgen Druid
10575
Here's is where it comes down to L2P.

When a druid goes bear and uses Frenzied Regeneration, stop hitting them. CC them. That is all. It is as literally as simple as that. Hard switch to their healer, do whatever you have to do, but get off the druid.

The thing is that if you hit the druid, he gets rage which is converted into health. If you don't hit the druid he gets no rage staying at his current low health. The druid will sit there at low hp not getting any heals and will be forced to go caster to HoT up or just go back to cat. They then lose the Frenzied Regeneration buff by shifting out of bear form.

I'm sure this strat will get argued with, but that is simply the best way to counter FR.

As to CC immunities, this expansion ferals are the hardest countered by Fear out of all the melee classes/specs. One of the two most common cc's? Fear. We even have an extra class that can fear us. You really gib a feral? Hex his healer, wait until he shifts out to decurse and then global his butt in a HoJ.
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85 Human Warrior
8770
04/06/2012 12:07 PMPosted by Moltke
if you gave up your cc immunity you would be in the exact spot that i am as an ENHANCE shaman, i have to out play every team i play, i cant just lolcyclone all day, i have to think about when i need to hex, and then i have to worry about it being dispelled, and i cant avoid cc by sitting in cat form, i have to shear or los like everyone else
But you can lolshear all day..so should ferals complain about that?

I mean every class has a different ability, you have to synergize with your team mates to win...
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I like how you pretend that ret/enhance has amazing burst compared to the other comps in the game.


Of course their are other comps with better burst. They generally involve a mage and a rogue. I like how you pretend your comp isn't a burst comp at all, even though it's a straight up zerg cleave with retarded off healing.

Basically, this whole post is still FERAL CAN SURVIVE INITIAL BURST, NERF PLEASE.

Where did i ever say we weren't a burst comp? Aren't most comps now a days burst comps? As in get in a good spot, CC and burst something down? With the exception of a few, that is how most 3s work now.

We really aren't a straight up zerg cleave, if we were we would be TSG or ret/dk/priest, which are both completely different playstyles. The point of the post isn't the fact that feral can survive initial burst, its the fact that classes such as feral have many tools that combined together are pretty ridiculous.

The main reason Moltke posted this was because we lost to a FMP that the feral we have fought many times before, and stomped. However, with the combination of the instant CC that a mage and a feral have, it becomes a nearly unwinnable game. The way most games would go is we would avoid CC for a few minutes while attempting to put out as much pressure onto the mage as possible. Once they got 1 cyclone off, we get extremely behind on heals, and have to play extremely defensive, trinket, or pop CDs like bubble.

If i bubble, easy MD. If we PS out of clone, i can get bursted down anyways. Anyways back to the point. We can avoid a lot of CC for a decent amount of time by watching things, i.e kicking poly casts, CCing/slowing priest when he goes for a fear, and dispelling the feral. However, one CC on our priest, and the chain begins and it is extremely difficult, if not impossible to stop.

TLDR: Instant CC needs to be toned down, when it's combined in comps like FMP, the true ridiculousness of it is shown.
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100 Tauren Druid
20410
04/06/2012 02:51 PMPosted by Trywa
Instant CC needs to be toned down, when it's combined in comps like FMP, the true ridiculousness of it is shown.


Thing is, though it's not instant (as it takes combo points to set up) and it can be countered in regards to feral at least. 20yd range... what is your team doing? All stacking together? Have your healer a short distance away....

How about having someone purge the druid when the PS buff comes up on them? How about CCing or even using a blanket silence on the druid? (to stop the cast happening altogether? )

If your healer gets CCed and then the chain starts, then that is being outplayed.. not that the CC is too strong. You allowed yourself to get into the position where they are going for a kill. You really think it would be easier to face a rogue instead of a feral in a comp with a mage and priest? FMP is weaker than RMP by miles.

Ferals do not have many tools that = OP... they have less tools than most other classes in regards to PvP... it's just that because feral was a joke of a spec for years... now that it's viable, people don't have the slightest clue how to counter the moves a feral makes. (Just look at all the whining about bearform coupled with FR heals.... when the simple solution there is to ignore the bear for the duration)
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85 Night Elf Druid
7215
A feral should never get a clone on your healer in 3s if you run as enh, not to mention feral should never get a clone at a very crucial moment vs you. clone is 20yard range, he has to get proc off you then run all the way to the healer, pretty sure you can dispel the clone during that time, if you dispel, he has to hard cast, you windshear off cd, if you get juked your healer will los another clone by then, not to mention grounding and other dispelers on your team...

I pray to god i dont face a good enh shaman as feral in 3s...
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90 Worgen Druid
10575


Of course their are other comps with better burst. They generally involve a mage and a rogue. I like how you pretend your comp isn't a burst comp at all, even though it's a straight up zerg cleave with retarded off healing.

Basically, this whole post is still FERAL CAN SURVIVE INITIAL BURST, NERF PLEASE.

Where did i ever say we weren't a burst comp? Aren't most comps now a days burst comps? As in get in a good spot, CC and burst something down? With the exception of a few, that is how most 3s work now.

We really aren't a straight up zerg cleave, if we were we would be TSG or ret/dk/priest, which are both completely different playstyles. The point of the post isn't the fact that feral can survive initial burst, its the fact that classes such as feral have many tools that combined together are pretty ridiculous.

The main reason Moltke posted this was because we lost to a FMP that the feral we have fought many times before, and stomped. However, with the combination of the instant CC that a mage and a feral have, it becomes a nearly unwinnable game. The way most games would go is we would avoid CC for a few minutes while attempting to put out as much pressure onto the mage as possible. Once they got 1 cyclone off, we get extremely behind on heals, and have to play extremely defensive, trinket, or pop CDs like bubble.

If i bubble, easy MD. If we PS out of clone, i can get bursted down anyways. Anyways back to the point. We can avoid a lot of CC for a decent amount of time by watching things, i.e kicking poly casts, CCing/slowing priest when he goes for a fear, and dispelling the feral. However, one CC on our priest, and the chain begins and it is extremely difficult, if not impossible to stop.

TLDR: Instant CC needs to be toned down, when it's combined in comps like FMP, the true ridiculousness of it is shown.


So wait, the feral that made him make this post is a feral that you had farmed repeatedly in the past... however when coupled with a mage the feral is now OP?

Maybe you should rethink your nerf post, and join the rest of the thousands of people on these forums making the OMG NERF MAGES threads.
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I like how you pretend that ret/enhance has amazing burst compared to the other comps in the game.


Of course their are other comps with better burst. They generally involve a mage and a rogue. I like how you pretend your comp isn't a burst comp at all, even though it's a straight up zerg cleave with retarded off healing.

Basically, this whole post is still FERAL CAN SURVIVE INITIAL BURST, NERF PLEASE.


you act like my comp is easy when my comp is the second highest that exists, the only higher comp that runs this is at 2400
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We purge the druid as much as possible in order to get off PS. However, when the priest has the slightest clue what he's doing and is constantly throwing out trash buffs, it comes down to RNG to get PS. As i said, we are able to avoid CC for a decent bit of time, HoJing when PS comes up in order to get more time to purge, Max range priest in order to get us more time since the feral has to run towards to get in range etc.

The feral can get clones in very crucial moments because a lot of the time when we are in crucial moments, we are playing a bit near each other, in order to LoS and get heals. Or he gets Pain supped in order to stop the purge, and can get it off. Also

[quote="43432607941"]Ferals do not have many tools that = OP... they have less tools than most other classes in regards to PvP... it's just that because feral was a joke of a spec for years... now that it's viable, people don't have the slightest clue how to counter the moves a feral makes. (Just look at all the whining about bearform coupled with FR heals.... when the simple solution there is to ignore the bear for the duration)

If we leave the feral alone, he goes on us and has full uptime, making us use our usually offensive CC in a defensive way. If we go on the feral, he bears up and we stop the pressure from him, swap off of him only in order for him to go back cat and get right back on us. The few games we won against the FMP we won because i pulled the feral out of position without trinket and killed him in cat form with HoJ and full CDs. He got punished for making a few mistakes, such as not having trinket, not having SI or barkskin, and being in awful positioning.
If me or partners made one of those mistakes, its pretty much a loss.

If i don't have defensive CDs when they have any sort of CD, we lose. If i'm in awful positioning at any point, we lose. If me or my priest don't have trinket when they have any CC up like a blanket CS into a clone, we lose. Feral druids have a ton of tools that other classes do not, the combination of them make em a bit ridiculous.
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