Lock Meta tank: complete info consolidation

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90 Blood Elf Priest
9045
i like the idea of demo tanking...
85 Human Warlock
2590
04/18/2012 04:20 PMPosted by Dragontite
i like the idea of demo tanking...
85 Blood Elf Death Knight
2720
The reason I really Like the idea of lock tanking is except for bears no other tank has a ranged dps for a secondary spec, and I don't like druids because I don't like bears
Edited by Murcury on 4/24/2012 7:06 PM PDT
91 Night Elf Druid
9050
So, is the glyph re purchasable from the vendors?
85 Human Warlock
2590
Currently in beta premades start with all glyphs.
90 Pandaren Shaman
HC
9325
If they do lock tanking, i'd prefer they didn't butcher demo DPS in the process.
90 Human Warlock
10720
[quote]
We are still going to want boat loads of Int because it effects how hard both our auto attack and spell hit for, any tank will tell you that you can’t generate threat if you hit like a wet noodle.


Lol, threat is a joke now. I can tank DS with Thunderfury with 0 threat issues on my pally. Granted a large portion of threat on a pally is generated through a shield, but the point still stands you can use a weapon that is 25 levels lower and be fine on threat.
85 Human Warlock
2590
[quote]
We are still going to want boat loads of Int because it effects how hard both our auto attack and spell hit for, any tank will tell you that you can’t generate threat if you hit like a wet noodle.


Lol, threat is a joke now. I can tank DS with Thunderfury with 0 threat issues on my pally. Granted a large portion of threat on a pally is generated through a shield, but the point still stands you can use a weapon that is 25 levels lower and be fine on threat.


the difference is lock tanks don't have vengeance
100 Blood Elf Warlock
13340
Do warlocks need vengeance?

Vengeance was implemented to give threat scaling with Hit points so that Tank Threat had a multiplicative multiplier and wasn't left in the dust by DPS potential.

(Additive Stats are Strength, Agility, Intellect, Etc. Multiplicative Stats are Hit, Crit, Hase, Usually mastery, etc.)

Before all tanks got a 500% threat multiplier, threat became a serious issue for tanks in higher tiers of content (especially ICC when gear scaling kinda went a little bit crazy) when DPS was able to get to rediculous levels of multiplicative stats while a tank had only his Strength to keep up.

((Edit: Even more to the point, as tanking Warlocks will unavoidably have access to crit and haste on their gear, they won't have this issue.))

With the new tanking system, and a rediculous threat multiplier to match, is Vengeance really a necessary component to tanking?

I think we should focus our attention on getting Avoidance.
Edited by Orloth on 4/26/2012 4:36 PM PDT
85 Troll Warlock
4480
I have no extra $0.02 to add to this that is relevant or intellectual.

All I know is I want to see this stay and go official when MoP goes live, BAD
85 Human Warlock
2590
04/26/2012 09:32 AMPosted by Eein
If they do lock tanking, i'd prefer they didn't butcher demo DPS in the process.


Don't worry, IF warlock tanking goes live it will be as a 4th spec. They won't gut demo or modify it for tanking in anyway.
90 Goblin Warlock
6840

We are still going to want boat loads of Int because it effects how hard both our auto attack and spell hit for, any tank will tell you that you can’t generate threat if you hit like a wet noodle.


Lol, threat is a joke now. I can tank DS with Thunderfury with 0 threat issues on my pally. Granted a large portion of threat on a pally is generated through a shield, but the point still stands you can use a weapon that is 25 levels lower and be fine on threat.


You can tank an old raid in beta without an effective weapon, im so proud of you. Pallys get most of their threat now from magic and it doesnt really matter what weapon you have. You just disproved your own argument saying that a weapon is useless then claimed that you can tank without the weapon.
100 Human Warlock
10445
04/26/2012 08:01 PMPosted by Tedodor
If they do lock tanking, i'd prefer they didn't butcher demo DPS in the process.


Don't worry, IF warlock tanking goes live it will be as a 4th spec. They won't gut demo or modify it for tanking in anyway.


They're already gutting Demo pretty thoroughly, but it's not because of tanking. Demo has always felt ( to me anyway ) like the yawn-1-2-3 spec. It just hasn't been all that interesting to play in Cata, purple Illidan aside.

The new version of Demo dps is a lot more engaging to play, doesn't rely nearly so much on the pets for everything, and lets you be big and purple a lot more often. All in all I'd say it's shaping up to be more fun for DPS than it has been in the past.

The tanking aspect doesn't really affect the DPS aspect all that much; rather, it seems to be based around the DPS aspect. The abilities are nearly identical, but it's primarily the Fury resource and how you spend it that makes the difference in the rotations. Demo tanking still feels like Demo, and Demo DPS doesn't feel like you're tanking.

It's like a mocha cappuccino latte versus a mocha cappuccino milkshake. They have similar flavors, but one is a latte and the other is a milkshake. You don't treat them the same way - one makes you warm and the other makes you cold. They fulfill different roles. It's the same way for Demo. One build can Tank and the other can DPS, but they're both still Demo.
85 Human Warlock
2590
Very good analogy Derrek and your spot on. even if they don't create a 4th spec Like we'd assume and leave it as is, its still viable and functional and doesn't affect demo dps in any negative way.
Edited by Tedodor on 4/29/2012 3:47 PM PDT
90 Blood Elf Warlock
13570
To be fair I didn't read this entire thread. But from my understanding a blue already stated that demo locks would not be made tanks. That the glyph was just for fun, they wouldn't be able to queue as tanks etc...

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/4253968049#12

Did something change?

I am against demo lock tanks. I love the spec and do not wish to tank and do not want to lose a dps spec to it. I have two 85 locks both demo spec lol. If they add in a 4th spec as a tank then I guess it wouldn't effect me so IDC lol. But I don't see it happening. It would need to be built from the ground up which is alot of work. & I would see it having to go through a long run of nerfs/balancing again and again.

I guess I understand that people are all like ooo something new & shiny. But if people wanted to tank they would prob already be playing a tank & not a dps-lock. The game is always striving for balance and equality of the classes so they wouldn't make a lock tank stand out all too much from the other tanks and in the end it will be fairly the same. The cool newness factor will wear off.

I also see it as hurting alot of us. Being a hybrid class where you can tank/dps or heal/dps so often you feel pressured by guilds/runs to have you create and build an offspec.
85 Human Warlock
2590
To be fair I didn't read this entire thread. But from my understanding a blue already stated that demo locks would not be made tanks. That the glyph was just for fun, they wouldn't be able to queue as tanks etc...

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/4253968049#12

Did something change?

I am against demo lock tanks. I love the spec and do not wish to tank and do not want to lose a dps spec to it. I have two 85 locks both demo spec lol. If they add in a 4th spec as a tank then I guess it wouldn't effect me so IDC lol. But I don't see it happening. It would need to be built from the ground up which is alot of work. & I would see it having to go through a long run of nerfs/balancing again and again.

I guess I understand that people are all like ooo something new & shiny. But if people wanted to tank they would prob already be playing a tank & not a dps-lock. The game is always striving for balance and equality of the classes so they wouldn't make a lock tank stand out all too much from the other tanks and in the end it will be fairly the same. The cool newness factor will wear off.

I also see it as hurting alot of us. Being a hybrid class where you can tank/dps or heal/dps so often you feel pressured by guilds/runs to have you create and build an offspec.


One of the common misconceptions is that bliz said no and left it at that. They said it wasn't their initial intention. They went on to say this here: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/4253968049?page=2#25

"We appreciate all the feedback and passion on this topic. We expected this glyph would serve a pretty niche community and were surprised at how many players were excited about it. We are still in beta and are still very much experimenting with what kind of gamplay we can deliver in glyphs."

What has been seen by beta testers is a balancing of the glyph with 'true tank' damage reduction, not a balance with what you'd expect to see if a kitty went bear as they spoke of. This proves that bliz has heard what the players want and are experimenting to see what it could be like. No such thing has yet been announced though because bliz doesn't want to raise players hopes or make promises they may not be able to deliver on.

Another very common misconception is that making demo tanks live will in anyway affect demo dps. Currently on beta demo dps and demo tank act and feel completely different from one another and have no interaction what so ever aside from using the same spells. the functionality of the glyph and its interaction with mastery is incredible in how it separates the 2 forms of the demo spec. It would also be very easy to duplicate demo into a 4th spec with the glyph baked in and with a few less spells and couple added.
Edited by Tedodor on 4/30/2012 12:39 AM PDT
To be fair I didn't read this entire thread. But from my understanding a blue already stated that demo locks would not be made tanks. That the glyph was just for fun, they wouldn't be able to queue as tanks etc...

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/4253968049#12

Did something change?

I am against demo lock tanks. I love the spec and do not wish to tank and do not want to lose a dps spec to it. I have two 85 locks both demo spec lol. If they add in a 4th spec as a tank then I guess it wouldn't effect me so IDC lol. But I don't see it happening. It would need to be built from the ground up which is alot of work. & I would see it having to go through a long run of nerfs/balancing again and again.

I guess I understand that people are all like ooo something new & shiny. But if people wanted to tank they would prob already be playing a tank & not a dps-lock. The game is always striving for balance and equality of the classes so they wouldn't make a lock tank stand out all too much from the other tanks and in the end it will be fairly the same. The cool newness factor will wear off.

I also see it as hurting alot of us. Being a hybrid class where you can tank/dps or heal/dps so often you feel pressured by guilds/runs to have you create and build an offspec.


One of the common misconceptions is that bliz said no and left it at that. They said it wasn't their initial intention. They went on to say this here: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/4253968049?page=2#25

"We appreciate all the feedback and passion on this topic. We expected this glyph would serve a pretty niche community and were surprised at how many players were excited about it. We are still in beta and are still very much experimenting with what kind of gamplay we can deliver in glyphs."

What has been seen by beta testers is a balancing of the glyph with 'true tank' damage reduction, not a balance with what you'd expect to see if a kitty went bear as they spoke of. This proves that bliz has heard what the players want and are experimenting to see what it could be like. No such thing has yet been announced though because bliz doesn't want to raise players hopes or make promises they may not be able to deliver on.

Another very common misconception is that making demo tanks live will in anyway affect demo dps. Currently on beta demo dps and demo tank act and feel completely different from one another and have no interaction what so ever aside from using the same spells. the functionality of the glyph and its interaction with mastery is incredible in how it separates the 2 forms of the demo spec. It would also be very easy to duplicate demo into a 4th spec with the glyph baked in and with a few less spells and couple added.


If it stays the way it is and demo tanking/dps coexist in the same tree. Wouldn't we end up being the "Druids" of MOP? Having 2 specs in one tree i mean.
85 Human Warlock
3200
I'd happily become a druid in that way if it would allow me to queue randoms as a tank on my warlock :)
85 Human Warlock
2590


One of the common misconceptions is that bliz said no and left it at that. They said it wasn't their initial intention. They went on to say this here: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/4253968049?page=2#25

"We appreciate all the feedback and passion on this topic. We expected this glyph would serve a pretty niche community and were surprised at how many players were excited about it. We are still in beta and are still very much experimenting with what kind of gamplay we can deliver in glyphs."

What has been seen by beta testers is a balancing of the glyph with 'true tank' damage reduction, not a balance with what you'd expect to see if a kitty went bear as they spoke of. This proves that bliz has heard what the players want and are experimenting to see what it could be like. No such thing has yet been announced though because bliz doesn't want to raise players hopes or make promises they may not be able to deliver on.

Another very common misconception is that making demo tanks live will in anyway affect demo dps. Currently on beta demo dps and demo tank act and feel completely different from one another and have no interaction what so ever aside from using the same spells. the functionality of the glyph and its interaction with mastery is incredible in how it separates the 2 forms of the demo spec. It would also be very easy to duplicate demo into a 4th spec with the glyph baked in and with a few less spells and couple added.


If it stays the way it is and demo tanking/dps coexist in the same tree. Wouldn't we end up being the "Druids" of MOP? Having 2 specs in one tree i mean.


Yes and No. Yes we will have that functionality but no we won't be pigeon holed as such.
91 Night Elf Druid
9050
If it stays the way it is and demo tanking/dps coexist in the same tree. Wouldn't we end up being the "Druids" of MOP? Having 2 specs in one tree i mean.


If it's still present, the 10 second CD is a fairly big step to combat this. But again, the problem with Druids wasn't two specs in one tree exactly. It was that cat and bear form were to powerful independent of talents.
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