Lock Meta tank: complete info consolidation

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90 Blood Elf Warlock
7580
If meta tanking goes live in some fashion I would play this lock as my main. Just sayin.
Man, I seriously hope this makes it live. I'm kinda bored by existing tanks due to the lack of flashy visuals and paint-by-numbers tanking mechanics; warlock tanking might be the shove I need to roll and level a tank (plus, warlock is one of the few classes I haven't given an honest go at, so there's that!).
80 Orc Warrior
580
My accounts have been inactive for a while. I finished up reg Dragon Soul and called it. My lock has been my main since BC (on another account, utilizing rez scroll for the 80s :) and honestly I had become bored.

I can honestly say this would be a breath of fresh air if it went live. I know it is a little OP, but just bringing a new tank class and change to my favorite class would definitely net you one subscriber back.
85 Human Warlock
2590
With the outcry there has been for this it would be a bad move for them to not make it happen.
85 Human Warlock
7370
I would definitely demo-tank if I had the option. Back in Wrath, I tanked the one blood prince with this lock in our 10 man runs...in fact, the first time I DPS'd that fight instead of tanking it I had no idea what to do since I was so used to trying to keep my threat up on the one boss, rotating my protective cooldowns, and chasing after orbs.

I also tended to off-tank in pugs in Wrath when demo form still had a taunt, and before threat was normalized. (Warlocks used to have crazy-high threat.) Or sometimes I right out-tanked when the real tank died.

Fun times.
90 Undead Warlock
9690
Turning an already tankey spec into a true tank via glyph is pretty freakin awesome. I just hope they go all out and let us truly function as tanks (altho they might need to implement some kind of vengeance mechanic or disable the glyph in pvp to balance the dmg).

With the new on-use CDs, meta 'tank' armor, Shatter-taunt, Demon leap and Portal for mobility, Sleep/Pet Specials/Shadowfury for utility, and Shadowflame turning into Carrion Swarm and functioning as an interrupt, I think we basically have all the tools we need already.

I am already drooling at the thought of not having to wait for slow pulling, target marking, time wasting tanks to get through 5mans while lvling/grinding valor/etc. Joy. Letting us Q as tanks also makes me warm and fuzzy.
80 Blood Elf Warlock
7325
I have to say, I am 100% in favor of this (and have been preaching a melee or tank demonology build since I knew what the PvE roles were). So, in the interest of seeing Demonology tanking become a reality, I feel I need to point out the single glaring hole I see in its current implementation, that it may in turn be rectified.

Tanking is currently balanced around a certain level of avoidance vs passive mitigation vs active mitigation. Blizzard tried having specialized tanks in BC and early Wrath and ultimately ditched the idea due to the problem of having some tanks trivialize encounters while also preventing some guilds from advancing without a specific tank class. Therefor, in order for the Demolock to be a fully implemented tank, it needs to have some form of Avoidance that can be scaled with Gear and scale down the passive and active mitigation to be more in line with current tanks.

Now, Cloth armor currently has:
Stamina ~ Already a tanking stat
Intellect ~ A threat stat and based purely on item level, therefor it would be a boring avoidance stat
Mastery ~ Active Mitigation Stat
Haste ~ Would currently help with Fury generation
Critical ~ Some threat but otherwise a low priority for tanking
Spirit ~ Healer Regen Stat.

Looking at this list, I believe the best candidate to be transformed into an Avoidance Stat would be Critical, as that would give a stat already on our gear some use in tanking. This could be done by something like:

Dark Premonition: Your Critical Strikes give you insight into your opponent's future actions, increasing your chance to Dodge by x%. This effect Stacks and is consumed upon dodging. Can not occur more then once every 1.5 seconds.

... and would cause Critical, Haste and Mastery to have an interesting Trichotomy. (Critical increasing Avoidance, Mastery Increasing Active Mitigation and Haste helping with both)

Once Avoidance, Passive and Active Mitigation are all in line with current tanks, Demolock tanking becomes a plausible option. I can't wait to see it in action.
Edited by Orloth on 3/25/2012 3:35 PM PDT
80 Blood Elf Warlock
7325
Spellpower is largely derived from Intellect, which is a set value based on item level. Thus, it would be a very boring stat if our Dodge was derived from our Intellect.

If Dodge were derived from Critical Strikes, (or any other non-set-by-item-level-stat) then you have a reasonably diverse set of stats and gearing options. Critical was my choice for the simple reason that it currently does not contribute to tanking in any way.
90 Blood Elf Warlock
14255
I think the demo tank can be tuned around a lack of avoidance (well besides the dodge everyone gets), and they seem dead set on moving away from sole passive tanking. between insta armor cap, the crazy scaling of our damage reduction, and our veritable bleeding sieve of sell healing and CD based damage reduction we just get to be old fashioned soak tanks. I can see this model of tanking being hard on undergeared/not paying attention healers kind of like DKs were when they first came out and no one really knew what to do or what to expect. Really doesn't seem anything like say in BC where you just got tat if you didn't have a pally hanging around.
90 Undead Warlock
13680
Not really, it needs fury to work, and while it's being channeled you aren't generating fury (or threat, for that matter).

You can maintain it indefinitely if you aren't taking damage, but what's the point in that?

ok ty, I didn't know it was channeled or that you can't generate fury while its active.


Actually, in retrospect I'm a bit mistaken. Your primary fury generator is Demonic Slash, which you can't use while channeling Fury Ward. However, you could still generate fury via pet basic attacks and Wild Imps (assuming you pop it before you start channeling).

Still, it's pretty weird for a 30% reduction tank cooldown that forces you to do nothing.
Edited by Fallensaint on 3/25/2012 6:20 PM PDT
85 Human Warlock
2590


ok ty, I didn't know it was channeled or that you can't generate fury while its active.


Actually, in retrospect I'm a bit mistaken. Your primary fury generator is Demonic Slash, which you can't use while channeling Fury Ward. However, you could still generate fury via pet basic attacks and Wild Imps (assuming you pop it before you start channeling).

Still, it's pretty weird for a 30% reduction tank cooldown that forces you to do nothing.


Corruption too, 12 fury per tic.

I think they might have mixed up the duration and cool down. If it lasts 10 seconds and has a 30 second cool down it might make a teeny bit more sense. If this is the case I think '10' might actually be an arbitrary testing number it may end up coming out to 8 or 12 seconds we'll have to see what happens.
Edited by Tedodor on 3/25/2012 6:57 PM PDT
90 Undead Warlock
13680
03/25/2012 06:56 PMPosted by Tedodor
I think they might have mixed up the duration and cool down. If it lasts 10 seconds and has a 30 second cool down it might make a teeny bit more sense. If this is the case I think '10' might actually be an arbitrary testing number it may end up coming out to 8 or 12 seconds we'll have to see what happens.


Actually, it might be intentional because of the increasing cost. For example, if you're taking 3% health damage every second, and you're using Fury Ward to mitigate it, over the full duration it'll spend 1430 fury.

Of course, currently there's no reason to not just stop channeling and recast it every 10 seconds, what it probably needs is an initial fury cost on cast.
85 Undead Warlock
4820
I certainly hope Blizzard isn't trolling us. :|
100 Blood Elf Warlock
11345
If they do take all of this away, I will rage. I will also expect SOME kind of LONG WRITTEN, WELL WRITTEN apology and REASONING behind such cruelty.
85 Blood Elf Warlock
8805
Thanks op for an awesome gathering of all the available info.

I've been demo main since towards the end of wrath, always loved the concept and playstyle. Occasionally popping meta when the tank dies and managing to survive for half a dozen hits before wiping, always fun. This has me so excited, especially that because its a glyph, I can still have 2 dps specs.

also



I will actually have meaning and a direction besides just a watered down affliction and destro. I will actually be DIFFERENT than the other two specs.



since I think 4.1, demo has been highest single target and aoe dps out of the 3 specs. check elitistjerks. Not to mention a completely different rotation and style, which is way more fun imo. Haven't been 'watered down' for a very long time.
Edited by Cotan on 3/26/2012 12:02 AM PDT
11 Tauren Warrior
160
This is cool, now all they need to do is make Mages, Hunters, and Rogues able to tank as well, then every class can que as either tank or heals and they can quit QQing about the long que times. Oh yeah but then who will dps?
100 Blood Elf Warlock
11345
03/26/2012 06:07 AMPosted by Tankerbull
This is cool, now all they need to do is make Mages, Hunters, and Rogues able to tank as well, then every class can que as either tank or heals and they can quit QQing about the long que times. Oh yeah but then who will dps?


Hunter tanks don't make sense mechanic wise.

Rogues either.

I can argue for either a mage tank or healer in the lore. Tank = BLood Mage a la Warcraft, or a healer would be some twister of time to heal wounds, I don't know. But yeah.
11 Tauren Warrior
160
My point is, do we really need another tanking class? With the addition of Brewmaster, there will be 5 already. I love the idea of this for something to do occasionally, or for PvP it sounds awesome. But When I log onto my Lock it is to get away from tanking on the numerous other tanks that I already have. It's hard enough to gear a lock when you have to deal with other cloth wearing dps and heals. now you want the chance of having all 5 spots in the dungeon to be wearing cloth? It doesn't sound like very good logic on Blizz's part.
Of course this is just the opinion of one person, so it really doesn't count. I would just not get my hopes up too much. It is really close to 4/1 anyways.
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