MoP Blood DK Discussion

90 Draenei Death Knight
11090
Let me see how much of a pain that is to implement.
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100 Troll Death Knight
14920
If its too much of a hassle, dont bother. I'm actually curious to hear your opinion on the results you got. You made mention of the disparity of attacks landed vs DS output but didn't really expand on it.
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90 Draenei Death Knight
11090
I could borrow a lot of the structure from BT.

Your hypothetical RE (only using RS if it could proc):
Rune Refreshes: 2134 + 710 (proc) = 2844
DS's Landed: 1069
RS's Landed: 1581
RE Procs: 710
Pure Blood runes used: 528 (HS) + 183 (RT) = 711

Yours with blind-RS spam:
Rune Refreshes: 2134 + 721 (proc) = 2855
DS's Landed: 1074
RS's Landed: 1584
RE Procs: 721
Pure Blood runes used: 529 (HS) + 183 (RT) = 712

Small increase to number of HS's, but, again, the sim never uses death runes on anything but DS. If the other blood rune is a death rune, it's just going to sit there indefinitely until the F/U pair lines up to use it.
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90 Draenei Death Knight
15670

5. Can you use BT when you don't have enough stacks, and if so, what happens?
6. Similarly, can you use BT when it won't proc anything, and if so, what happens?

edit: added 5 & 6.


5. no, it gives you an error msg. (something like "you can't use that yet")
6. I believe you are asking if you can use BT without having a fully depleted rune, right? for example B# F# U#.

no you can't, it gives you a different error msg. (something like "you don't have runes available")
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90 Draenei Death Knight
11090
Thanks, Eflow.

04/07/2012 08:32 PMPosted by Deathtime
I'm actually curious to hear your opinion on the results you got.


I think it's rather remarkable that the DS throughputs are all fairly close, which wasn't what I originally anticipated. The DS throughput on the non-RE gaming one seems higher than I'd anticipate.

04/07/2012 08:32 PMPosted by Deathtime
You made mention of the disparity of attacks landed vs DS output but didn't really expand on it.


Obviously, it's getting a little overblown by being a 100m duration fight, but, just break it down by the uses/minute.

RE (gaming):
--DS: 10.41
--RS: 14.66
--HS: 4.84
= 29.91 offensive abilities / min

RC:
--DS: 9.81
--RS: 15.99
--HS: 7.70
= 33.50 offensive abilities / min

BT:
--DS: 9.76
--RS: 15.25
--HS: 5.39
= 30.40 offensive abilities / min

RC is the lazy route, leads to almost the same mitigation (or at least pretty close), and also deals the most damage. I don't think that's how it should be. The RE trials are assuming that the player is actually extremely good, and s/he's rewarded with more DS's, but just consider people who aren't that good with RE gaming. They'll waste opportunities and waste rune types. The BT trials are also capable of using BT lightning-fast, so I think in reality there will be more losses than shown.

The RC player is probably going to the be most accurate out of all the setups I showed. The rest will be somewhere lower, in my opinion.

Of course, my tuning mark is probably way narrower than the developers'. On any realistic fight, it's probably going to be like 20-25 extra abilities, which really isn't that huge (at least not right now), but I don't have an estimate on the variability for short-scale. But, it is still more damage, and I don't really feel like you're trading off anything for it.

I think the main problem with RE is that blood runes are still so useless that you're better off avoiding them.
Edited by Euliat on 4/7/2012 9:42 PM PDT
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90 Draenei Death Knight
11090
Beta changes:

DS supposedly can't be parried now, which is awesome. Taking the huge rating drop to hit/expertise cap won't leave you with a 7.5% chance to still fail to connect.

Blood Tap supposedly has been changed to add 2 stacks per RS, cost 5 charges per 1 rune, and cap at 10 stacks.

Results:

BT (simple):
Rune Refreshes: 2156 + 626 (BT) = 2782
DS's landed: 1034
RS's landed: 1567
BT casts: 626
Pure Blood runes used: 537 (HS) + 182 (RT) = 719

BT (advanced):
Rune Refreshes: 2157 + 626 (BT) = 2783
DS's landed: 1034
RS's landed: 1565
BT casts: 626
Pure Blood runes used: 534 (HS) + 185 (RT) = 719
Edited by Euliat on 4/10/2012 10:56 PM PDT
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100 Troll Death Knight
14920
I was noticing some odd behavior with runes on the beta. Occasionally all my unholy/frost runes would recharge at the same time similar to how runes worked in Wrath. This was with using runic corruption. I was able to repeat this several times in a row so something is going on.

Edit: It seemed to always happen if I used DS while the runic corruption buff was up.

Edit2: NVM its something else going on but I am able to do this quite frequently.
Edited by Deathtime on 4/13/2012 8:22 AM PDT
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90 Draenei Death Knight
11090
Then that makes RC significantly stronger if intended (which it probably isn't).
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100 Troll Death Knight
14920
I was able to do this with runic empowerment as well. But runic empowerment itself is acting weird. I think this may just be a bug.

Essentially when this happens, when you spend a rune, it inherits the remaining cd of its pair and then recharges along side it. So for instance, if you DS and your frost rune had 5 seconds left to recharge, the frost rune you just spent will have 5 seconds recharge and they will be available at the same time.

I think I have noticed this on live but it occurs very rare;y. I usually just claimed I was miss interpreting my runes but I wonder if this is a bug that carried over from live and the changes are making it occur much more frequently.
Edited by Deathtime on 4/13/2012 8:36 AM PDT
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100 Troll Death Knight
14920
Ok now this is just stupid. Using runic empowerment, occasionally I am able to spend depleted runes without getting a runic empowerment proc.
Edited by Deathtime on 4/13/2012 8:47 AM PDT
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90 Draenei Death Knight
11090
04/13/2012 08:27 AMPosted by Deathtime
I think I have noticed this on live but it occurs very rare;y. I usually just claimed I was miss interpreting my runes but I wonder if this is a bug that carried over from live and the changes are making it occur much more frequently.


I've never noticed any such behavior on live.
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100 Troll Death Knight
14920
I have it, when you miss with an ability that costs runes, the rune will recharge Wrath style. But only if the the other rune of that kind is already recharging.

This will make exp and hit a lot more important.
Edited by Deathtime on 4/13/2012 8:55 AM PDT
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100 Troll Death Knight
14920
04/13/2012 08:43 AMPosted by Euliat
I've never noticed any such behavior on live.


Did you notice on live that if you use blood tap and then immediately use the death rune is creates occasionally the rune will instantly be available again even if you connect with the ability? I havent seen that posted anywhere but I notice that all the time.
Edited by Deathtime on 4/13/2012 8:50 AM PDT
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90 Draenei Death Knight
11090
I've had that happen like once with RE, but never with BT.
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100 Troll Death Knight
14920
I think it happens mostly when I mess up the blood tap bug but I notice it at least every raid night if not multiple times in that night.
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100 Troll Death Knight
14920
Clarification: If you miss with an ability it will gain the recharge time of the other rune in its pair. If that other rune is not recharging than you will have to wait the full recharge time though this part is not being consistant.

This change seems almost intended.

Edit: If you miss with your primary target but connect with the cleave part of heart strike it will go on CD, otherwise if both runes are not on CD and you miss with an ability, you will get that rune back.
Edited by Deathtime on 4/13/2012 9:23 AM PDT
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85 Tauren Death Knight
9900
So (bugs aside) rc gives comparable survivability but higher dps, no rng factor and no rune tetris? I know what I'm choosing.....
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90 Draenei Death Knight
11090
04/13/2012 09:15 AMPosted by Deathtime
This change seems almost intended.


To be blunt, if it is intended, I find it to be completely dumb. That is the most awkward way to force DK tanks to get hit/expertise.
Edited by Euliat on 4/13/2012 12:02 PM PDT
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100 Troll Death Knight
14920
I have a post in the beta bug forums asking for clarification on if its intended or not. Hopefully they respond soon.
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100 Dwarf Death Knight
15510
Beta first impressions:

1 - Holy !@#$ playing with low/no hit and expertise is punishing. REFORGE ALL THE THINGS.
2 - Can confirm the random regen issues with RC. It also seems to randomly desync rune pairs which is mildly irritating.
3 - Death Strike heals for more than it hits for. Our damage in general still seems to be pretty pitiful, but it's hard to gauge with no meters.
4 - Roiling Blood is pretty great, mildly unintuitive (Pestilence effect seems to originate from your current target, which can prevent it from reaching all the targets in your Blood Boil).
5 - Finally having AMZ just feels good.
6 - Between Chilblains, Roiling Blood, and Glyph of Death and Decay, we may end up the kings and queens of the kite tanks.

Did a quick Temple run, despite being in full DPS gear I bored the healer to tears and never broke the minimum heal on DS. Hard to say if this is an artifact of instance tuning or ability tuning.
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