Serious problems with tanking

90 Orc Warrior
5100
Im so pissed off i cant see straight....

I've leveled this toon(warrior) via lfd...I was doing great from what i can tell.Never had issues per say. I hit level 84 and noticed very few issues but nothing i couldnt over come.

Now i turned 85 yesturday and started gearing him up only to find that I'm droping grps because I cant hold aggro for sht. Im not sure what wrong. I wouldn't image its my rotation/priority...charg>rend>thunder shock are my openers . I hold aggro just fine when its just one or 2 but u add any more im done.

can someone take a look at my spec and gear and possible give me some suggestions for a new tank. thanks in advance
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90 Human Paladin
7310
I would ask your DPS to hold off for a few second and maybe throw a skull and cross up on the targets you want focused.

Some people may be queuing for content that they over gear in order to get quick JP, if that is the case you will have a hard time keeping aggro if they are focusing a target other than the one you are.

Whatever happens don't sweat it too much. If you have problems with initial aggro I would recommend double checking to make sure Rend is applied before you spread it. I remember on my baby Warrior charging in and hitting rend then TC and being really confused when the mobs went straight for the healer. As it turns out I was missing the initial Rend application and therefore not spreading it to the surrounding mobs #newbmoment
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90 Human Paladin
8860
Not to be offensive, but one thing tanking has taught me is, if you're getting mad about something, you're doing something wrong.

One run I was accidentally in my DPS gear, pissed off at my healer for OOMing every pull. One time I couldn't get anyone to volunteer for Hourglass--turns out they were all in the same guild on vent, and didn't need ONE person to be responsible for it. One run (more like 50 runs) I left RF off after switching specs and couldn't figure out why I couldn't hold aggro. (These have happened over the course of 5 years, so I've had plenty of time to look back and ponder my mistakes.)

Sometimes it won't be something simple and overt like that. Sometimes it will be your DBM announcing green phase 2 seconds early, despite orange slime still on the ground. And you walk right into it and die and don't know why, until it's happened 4 times in a row, and then you realize you can't trust DBM with your life.

Sometimes you'll never figure it out, but looking for potential problems and reading up on other people's experiences and guides and double-checking your gemming and glyphs will help.
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85 Night Elf Druid
9355
Noxxic.com has good information as well.

It can tell you how to gem and enchant your gear, as well as gives specs. I find it a lot easier to work with than trying to weed through the threads on Elitest Jerks.
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92 Undead Rogue
13700
When im on my warrior tank, i find that for large mobs i will use shockwave first to keep them grouped up so i can rend/thunderclap, tab target some cleaves and aggro shouldn't be a problem.

Edit: Some spec work will also help with aggro problems, mainly making sure u get the deep wounds talent in the arms tree.
Edited by Svindler on 4/5/2012 12:09 PM PDT
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90 Human Warrior
13005
Prot warriors have several options for opening a pull. First off, you'll need rage. Charging in will get you some rage, as will Battle Shout or Commanding Shout.

The first priority is to get Rend ticking on all of the enemies with Blood and Thunder. Charge in, Rend a target, then Thunder Clap. Using Cleave to get some aggro until the Thunder Clap is a good idea if you have enough rage to do that and apply Rend at the same time.

Alternately, you can open up with Heroic Leap. You won't be able to do this for every pull, since it has a 1-minute cooldown, so you may want to save it for particularly messy pulls. Or, you can use Heroic Leap to pick up adds that spawn at a distance, like Fragments on Lord Rhyolith.

Once you've spread Rend, then Shockwave. From there, the priority is simple:

Shockwave>Thunder Clap>Revenge>Shield Slam>Devastate

You should get enough rage to use Cleave almost nonstop.

When you're down to the last one or two enemies in a pull (and they're about to die), start saving up some rage for the next pull if you have enough of a threat lead. Just don't use any abilities for a few GCDs, and you should have plenty once the enemies die.
Edited by Muspel on 4/5/2012 1:09 PM PDT
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90 Human Warrior
13005
Oh, also... change your talent spec. For 5-man heroics, use this: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/tool/talent-calculator#Zc02!kaY!!VSkTeedTgQ!aYcXVfRjN

You can change out the minor and major glyphs if you want, I just find those ones to be the most useful options when you're dealing with trash mobs.
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Its been quite a while since I tanked on his toon but probly my fav tanking style class. I did things a tad different. Use your rage gain abilities, heroic throw, charge and hit shield block (no gcd iirc), rend and cleave (again off gcd iirc), thunder clap, revenge is likely up so hit it,group them up and shockwave. Proper spec gives you rage for blocking so rage is plentiful. Just a suggestion of other things dont work.
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55 Dwarf Death Knight
13010
500% threat :(

but in practice, shield block when shockwave wears off
charge, clap, shockwave, rend clap
Edited by Lostaroll on 4/6/2012 11:26 AM PDT
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100 Dwarf Warrior
9865
Some observational comments:

If you're doing normal 5-mans and having a hard time holding agro on trash pulls, the problem likely has very little to do with your gear. Your gear is going to influence your survivability, not your threat generation (blah, blah, hit/expertise, blah). Instead, it's going to come down to two types of mechanics: the mechanics of the pull and the mechanics of the rotation.

The mechanics of the rotation are the things others have mentioned. Rend, Tclap, Cleave, Shockwave and Revenge liberally. In pack-related pulls, there's very little reason to use any threat move other than these. This leads me to believe that your issue is more related to the mechanics of the pull, which can be simply remedied.

Mark an X. End of lesson.

Your issue is largely that the three DPS players in your groups are all targeting different mobs, or the Mage and Warlock are AOEing, and the Rogue is single-targeting something other than your primary target, and the overall pack is behaving like three kittens chasing five crickets, with you trying to control all the little critters.

If you're still having issues, start using some CC. This will cut down on the number of mobs you have to worry about holding threat on, and is generally good practice anyway.
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85 Dwarf Paladin
7010
04/06/2012 11:42 AMPosted by Sceilence
Your gear is going to influence your survivability, not your threat generation


Really? He has a 272 weapon. You're talking some major differences in ability's dmg, since many are based on weapon dmg.

Last time i checked, str. impacts threat.

If he held threat at all, I would be amazed.

OP, you have access to the Crucible of Carnage. Go there, get a group, and get yourself a 333 weapon. /youwontbesomad
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90 Draenei Death Knight
6890
2 things have happened.

1.) Geared level 85's helping friends out doing high dps. ( 43k and up from Arcane mages for example )
2.) Stat effectiveness reduction

Each level you gain, you get less out of the gear than the level before with the one exception being Stamina. So 120 STR did more for you at 84 then 85.

So you are going to struggle at first until you get more gear, then it will get better. As other have mentioned getting a weapon upgrade would be a good place to start.
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1 Human Warrior
0
04/06/2012 01:18 PMPosted by Bashface
OP, you have access to the Crucible of Carnage. Go there, get a group, and get yourself a 333 weapon. /youwontbesomad


CoC doesn't give a tanking weapon. You can use the axe but this quest:

http://www.wowhead.com/quest=28133

will give you a better deal.

If you can pick up a Soul Blade or an Obsidium Cleaver for cheap (under 1k gold) that would be a good option. Unbreakable Guardian is good but not worth the price in my opinion (all of these weapons will just be replaced by 378 heroic HoT weapons, so you don't really want to overspend).
Edited by Ancayson on 4/6/2012 3:46 PM PDT
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90 Tauren Warrior
4790
04/05/2012 09:51 AMPosted by Padreoleary
Some people may be queuing for content that they over gear in order to get quick JP


This is it in a nut shell. Im bored of HOT heroics so im queing for regular cata heroics to get VP and JP and to put it simply when i'm running as arms and can put out 40k+ dps on aoe trash pulls.... Well yeah threat will be an issue.
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85 Tauren Warrior
9495
AoE Threat Priority:
Rend > Thunder Clap > Shockwave > Revenge


This is incredibly wrong - I understand the source is EJ, and believe me when I say I use EJ - but, initially, rend does absolutely nothing for you in the ways of agro.

The rotation should always be for AoE:

CS > Heroic Leap > Thunderclap > Shockwave > at this point, worry about getting a rend up and then thunderclap again for rolling rends. Tauren have a bit longer because we can stomp and stun the mobs for a bit longer.

Believe me when I say it will be much harder for your party to pull agro off after you HL > TC as an opener.

If you're doing normal 5-mans and having a hard time holding agro on trash pulls, the problem likely has very little to do with your gear. Your gear is going to influence your survivability, not your threat generation (blah, blah, hit/expertise, blah). Instead, it's going to come down to two types of mechanics: the mechanics of the pull and the mechanics of the rotation.


I can't really agree with this... I mean, you 'might' have a bit of a point, but it's a muted point. Just about 7 pieces of his gear has absolutely no tanking stats... instead, it has crit, expertise, or in the case of his second trinket: agility.

Before you start running heroics, if you're not carrying a lot of cash, spend a few days and finish up a bunch of the Cata zone quests - you'll find quite a few tanking pieces that will set you up nicely for 85 heroics. Also, quests can only help you to get the reputations you need for tanking enchants - they are a ton of reasons to do the quests, and very few reasons to not do them.
Edited by Smearblood on 4/8/2012 1:04 AM PDT
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100 Draenei Warrior
14180
It depends on timing really. If you can rend quickly enough, getting that in before Thunder Clap is usually more helpful, because of how powerful Rend is, though for beginning tanks, and for overly hasty dpsers, getting that initial TC off is more important.
-----
Attack tables, diminishing returns and you!
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2489160859
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85 Tauren Warrior
9495
04/08/2012 01:04 AMPosted by Waniou
It depends on timing really. If you can rend quickly enough, getting that in before Thunder Clap is usually more helpful, because of how powerful Rend is


Okay... put up a tank that follows this against a bunch of dps that will invariably target different mobs and end up targeting the mob you don't rend initially. Also, consider that you might miss on the rend; there's just too much gambling going on when you rend vice using a more AoE-based ability.

I suppose we could use target markers, and verbally ask the party to attack a particular target, but judging by your achievements, it's fair to assume that you've run into plenty of dps that attack their targets on their own terms.
Edited by Smearblood on 4/8/2012 1:12 AM PDT
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100 Draenei Warrior
14180
Is there any particular reason you cut off the rest of my post, where I addressed those issues?

And no, I don't usually have problems with DPSers.
-----
Attack tables, diminishing returns and you!
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2489160859
Edited by Waniou on 4/8/2012 1:15 AM PDT
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85 Draenei Shaman
4755
Warriors always seem like the worse tanks to me. Never played one though.
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