Who are the Horde factions in debt to?

58 Undead Death Knight
120
And why are they in debt? Silvermoon I could understand, but the Forsaken? The Tauren? What have they been doing that has put them in such a bad financial spot?
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85 Blood Elf Warlock
3965
04/10/2012 02:27 AMPosted by Gandred
And why are they in debt? Silvermoon I could understand, but the Forsaken? The Tauren? What have they been doing that has put them in such a bad financial spot?


Silvermoon I dont understand. The only tangible thing I can think of thats been done for Quel Thalas by the Horde is manpower in the Ghostlands. Beyond that...what? Anveena cleared Eversong...and the rebuilding of SMC? Really? Are we to believe that while they are fighting a war of aggression in Ashenvale for survival goods the Orcs have been sending all their building materials and resources to SMC?
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Orgrimmar from the sounds of it.

My guess is it's a sign that Garrosh is pushing the other Horde races much too hard and they can't keep up on their own. This could be part of the reason most of the Horde rebels against Garrosh late in the expansion really.
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90 Troll Hunter
12970
I assume you mean honorable debt.

The Forsaken are members of the Horde thanks to the Earthen Ring and the Tauren who thought they could find a cure for Undeath. Since, the Horde has given the Forsaken much support. They are indebted to the Horde as such.

The Tauren are indebted to the Orcs specifically, when Thrall and his Orcs rescued them from extermination by the Centaur.
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90 Blood Elf Warlock
10540
04/10/2012 02:46 AMPosted by Pyronaptor
I assume you mean honorable debt.


No, Garrosh screams that apparently all the other races are behind in their hommage to the Horde in the opening MoP sequence.
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85 Worgen Rogue
13435
Night Elves.

For, you know. The whole saving their asses shenanigans.
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Dunno. First I've heard of the Horde even using money, seems like.

I have to assume its the debts accrued for rebuilding Orgrimmar. Though who the money is owed to and why are unanswered questions.

Goblins most like.

And I think Baine got himself a debt with one of the Cartels for something involving the retaking of Thunderbluff.

Other than that I can't imagine.

Monetary wealth hasn't really been a focal point for the Horde... at all, really.

Seems a little out of the blue.
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If I had to take a guess, I'd figure Garrosh the mobster is trying to collect his protection money to use in the war.
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Dunno. First I've heard of the Horde even using money, seems like.

I have to assume its the debts accrued for rebuilding Orgrimmar. Though who the money is owed to and why are unanswered questions.

Goblins most like.

And I think Baine got himself a debt with one of the Cartels for something involving the retaking of Thunderbluff.

Other than that I can't imagine.

Monetary wealth hasn't really been a focal point for the Horde... at all, really.

Seems a little out of the blue.

The goblins of Ratchet gave Baine the bombs for free because they liked and respected Cairne. And Garrosh wasn't trying to fund a massive war machine before.
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90 Tauren Druid
19270
There are other ways of paying outside of raw currency. Look at the short stories for example.... Mulgore is supplying Ogrimmar with fresh water... despite the war and the fact Mulgore is cut off due to the Alliance offensive.

Garrosh could be meaning anything from food for his troops to more troops themselves and could be seeing disagreement as to the amounts needed or that could be provided in the timeframe as disent or outright treason.

We've already had a glimpse at how fast Garrosh jumps to conclusions. Look at his attitude when Ettrig tells Garrosh that Vol'jin suspected poison on Gorehowl during the Mak'gora. He didn't think to discuss this with Vol'jin, he immediately assumed that Vol'jin was going to rebel or at least stir up discontent.

In a way he was right, with the Trolls leaving Org, but that was Garrosh's doing not Vol'jins, and Vol'jin only spoke that way to Garrosh because the orc was being too pigheaded to listen to reasonable concerns.

So that could be a reasonable thing to assume... that + whatever else he gets up to will tip them over mild annoyance to 'lets get rid of him now!' I assume.
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Silvermoon I dont understand. The only tangible thing I can think of thats been done for Quel Thalas by the Horde is manpower in the Ghostlands. Beyond that...what? Anveena cleared Eversong...and the rebuilding of SMC? Really? Are we to believe that while they are fighting a war of aggression in Ashenvale for survival goods the Orcs have been sending all their building materials and resources to SMC?

Even if the Orcs weren't sending raw materials to Silvermoon they're probably bankrolling the city's reconstruction. Without the Orcs' help the entire city would look like the western half is now. Couple with the fact that the blood elves likely didn't have any infrastructure following the Scourge attack nor little access to fresh, clean food and water and I can definitely see the Horde propping them up economically.
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90 Human Paladin
15265
I would think the Blood Elves would owe a debt to the Draenei, Velen kinda did reignite their Sunwell for them.
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85 Night Elf Druid
1890
Well the Alliance did choose to house and feed the Orcs instead of wiping them out after the Orcs failed to genocide the Alliance races.
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85 Night Elf Druid
1890
Even if the Orcs weren't sending raw materials to Silvermoon they're probably bankrolling the city's reconstruction. Without the Orcs' help the entire city would look like the western half is now. Couple with the fact that the blood elves likely didn't have any infrastructure following the Scourge attack nor little access to fresh, clean food and water and I can definitely see the Horde propping them up economically.


Except Silvermoon was rebuilt before it was a part of the Horde. The explanation given was that they used magic learned from Outland, through Rommath, to rebuilt the eastern half.

As for water and stuff? Sure, I guess. Except Orgrimmar certainly isn't providing any water, and what's wrong with the water Quel'thalas already has? Why would they need to import from Mulgore?
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04/10/2012 10:09 AMPosted by Drailen
Except Silvermoon was rebuilt before it was a part of the Horde. The explanation given was that they used magic learned from Outland, through Rommath, to rebuilt the eastern half.

Except Silvermoon wasn't rebuilt. In fact they're still not done rebuilding it. They've fixed less than half of the city. Even within the part of Silvermoon that's actually labeled as a "city", there are still destroyed and half finished buildings.

04/10/2012 10:09 AMPosted by Drailen
As for water and stuff? Sure, I guess. Except Orgrimmar certainly isn't providing any water, and what's wrong with the water Quel'thalas already has? Why would they need to import from Mulgore?

Ever hear of something called the plague?
Edited by Omacron on 4/10/2012 10:13 AM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
9305
Hm, not really certain of the debt Silvermoon would have with the Orcs given that reconstruction of part of the city was completed before the sequence where the Elves are officially admitted into the Horde. I don't see Silvermoon's reconstruction being a matter of Orcish assistance until then.

Their debt to Lordaeron given Sylvanas' support is self evident, and, I... guess it might be possible that Orgrimmar is providing funds for the rebuilding of the SECOND half of Silvermoon (but, like all things with the Blood Elves since TBC, is consigned to offstage development), but other than that...

While I can see a legitimate sense of debt perhaps between the other races of the Horde and Orgrimmar (though I suspect it's more a question of Garrosh being Garrosh rather than any legitimate form of payments owed), Silvermoon is such a neglected outlier that from what we know of it, it just doesn't seem to fit into the mold of directly owing Garrosh anything.
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85 Blood Elf Warlock
3965
04/10/2012 10:13 AMPosted by Omacron
Except Silvermoon wasn't rebuilt. In fact they're still not done rebuilding it. They've fixed less than half of the city. Even within the part of Silvermoon that's actually labeled as a "city", there are still destroyed and half finished buildings.


It is true that they didn't complete it...but the part that was completed was done "almost overnight" by the magisters.

http://www.wowpedia.org/Silvermoon_city
04/10/2012 10:13 AMPosted by Omacron
Ever hear of something called the plague?


It stretches credibility that the Western Horde has been sending sufficient water to support the thousands of elves of Quel Thalas across the ocean...and through what ports? Portal magic as it works in game is a matter of game-play-convenience, not the dangerous and difficult way that it really works. So it would have had to have been shipped. But through what avenue? And this ignores the lack of fresh water that Durotar already faces. And in any event, Anveena cleansed Eversong...why would she leave the water plagued?
Edited by Galindruhek on 4/10/2012 10:31 AM PDT
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Durotar wasn't in a drout and Anveena didn't immediately cleanse Quel'thalas. The BElves could've worked up quite a debt during TBC alone, simply because they have absolutely no industry or economy to speak of to repay the orcs. The tauren, at least, seem to be sitting on a lot of resources, the undead are a well oiled conquest machine, the Goblins are producing a bucketload of machines for the Horde and the trolls... I'd imagine they're also in quite a lot of debt as well.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
5735
1.)
The waters north of the Runestones should be clean of the plague because we specifically altered them to keep the plague out.
2.)
Silvermoon probably owes a debt to the Horde for the failed excursion to Outland and the lack of support from Kael'thas Blood Elves and their subsequent betrayal.
3.)
The Horde has gone through arguably four wars since the beginning of WoW. Wars cost money and drain the economic progress of a nation as we're seeing now.

That's where the debts from.
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85 Blood Elf Warlock
3965
04/10/2012 10:35 AMPosted by Omacron
Durotar wasn't in a drout and Anveena didn't immediately cleanse Quel'thalas. The BElves could've worked up quite a debt during TBC alone, simply because they have absolutely no industry or economy to speak of to repay the orcs.


Repay them for what? They didn't rebuild SMC. The Magisters did. As to the water and food stuffs, even if we accept that Anveena did leave the water and animals plagued, for arguments sake...1) How did the Western Horde ship goods to isolated Quel Thalas? 2) Why couldn't the magic users and fisherfolk tend to their needs even with hunters and farmers out of the picture.

The only tangible debt I can see are troops. A debt they repay as do all other Horde races (even if they have to be pushed into it at times).
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