Demonology H e l p...

85 Human Warlock
1565
Hello all demo locks. I finally decided to level this guy (untouched since 2007 /still have my Olympic tabard, lol) and boy how incredibly easy it is to level nowadays (sad in a way). My mains are a Rogue/Warrior and so this caster stuff is definitely new to me.
Having said that... I have fallen in love playing this toon and have grown attached to all my minions. I even /cry when one dies.

Ok, Just some questions that I could use help with. I've checked forums/sites and seems like some questions have two answers. So I just need a what is the correct thing for a Demo Lock:
Here goes:

1. I know hitcap is 17%-ish (1700+), but I've also noticed that this stat is completely different "in-game" versus "battle.net", ummm so which one do I follow?

2. Do you guys ever use "Seed of Corruption"? or only"Corruption"? I read that "Seed" is good for AOE, but I've never read a demo priority list with SoC in there. So I guess only Detruc/Afflic uses it?

3. Is the Doomguard that more efficient on a boss? I still prefer my Infernal, so am I missing that much on the boss?

4. So in demonology we rely heavily on our minions, but still haste over mastery? I mean as a fresh 85... 1900 haste is a load to get to. Is it ok to load both haste and mastery at the same time?... or just load up haste until I cap.

Finally, I'm NOT looking for sarcastic comments or a complete tear down. I've been playing this game a very long time and been there and seen that. Again, I just hit 85 on this guy- so my gear is still fresh 85 with cheap enchants- In a few weeks I should be more into epic. I am only looking for answers to the above.
Thanks in advance and I have to say Demo locks absolutely rock:)
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90 Dwarf Warlock
17395
1. Ingame. You want to aim for 1742 hit which is the 17% hit cap.

2. No, SoC is Afflictions AoE. For Demonology AoE, you use Hellfire, Shadowflame, Felguards Brostorm (if you have him out) and Immolation Aura if you blow meta.

However, if it's unsafe to AoE in melee for whatever reason, then you would use SoC. But I can't think of any situations where that would be so.

3. Yes. In an AoE situation, an Infernal may do more damage, but in most situations the Doomguard is far superior.

4. As Demonology you want to build on Haste and Mastery, while I'm a tad rusty on the actual numbers (being playing Aff/Destro this tier), Haste is superior until you get to the softcap, then it's value is lowered so Mastery is better.

Basically, Int>SP>Hit(17%)>Haste(Softcap)>Mastery>Haste>Crit.
Edited by Awkward on 4/5/2012 10:22 AM PDT
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85 Human Warlock
1565
Thanks for response, Awkward. Yes, I rely heavily on my felguard- reminds me of having an arms warrior next to me. That's my minion of choice for trash.
Ahhh ok, SoC can now be placed on the leftside of my very full spell bar.

*rightside
Edited by Kublaikhan on 4/5/2012 10:31 AM PDT
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88 Undead Warlock
5600
I am recently 85 myself, you can check my feed and see how long ago I hit it. Anyway I was playing demo primarily and just recently switched to Aff, in my experience as far as dungeons go you might as well just throw seed out there but keep throwing it on multiple targets, make sure you throw hand of gul'dan out and felstorm on your felguard.

2. No, SoC is Afflictions AoE. For Demonology AoE, you use Hellfire, Shadowflame, Felguards Brostorm (if you have him out) and Immolation Aura if you blow meta.

However, if it's unsafe to AoE in melee for whatever reason, then you would use SoC. But I can't think of any situations where that would be so.


I am not disagreeing with any of this, just sometimes in dungeons it is easier to stay at range, maybe run in for a quick shadowflame but Hellfire has got me killed to many times (maybe I am just bad).

The reason I say to throw hand out is that it will buff your felgaurds damage (in theory) by him critting more, I have almost consistantly topped AoE pulls in dungeons so far when his felstorm is off CD.

For the rest, everything else Awkward said.
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90 Dwarf Warlock
17395
I am not disagreeing with any of this, just sometimes in dungeons it is easier to stay at range, maybe run in for a quick shadowflame but Hellfire has got me killed to many times (maybe I am just bad).

The reason I say to throw hand out is that it will buff your felgaurds damage (in theory) by him critting more, I have almost consistantly topped AoE pulls in dungeons so far when his felstorm is off CD.

For the rest, everything else Awkward said.


Good point that I missed. For Demonology AoE (and Max DPS in general) HoG is crucial, as the crit = more demon pewpew.

A good way of making sure your demon sits in the HoG and doesn't wander is using a macro like this.

#Showtooltip Hand of Gul'dan
/cast pursuit
/petattack
/cast Hand of Gul'dan

Turn your Felguards pursuit off auto and when you use that macro, he will charge to whatever you put HoG on.

However, on a note of demons. The Felhunter does superior single target damage to the Felguard. At the start of a fight, I send my Felguard in, use his brostorm, demon soul and then Soulburn and summon the Felhound.

Edit: And yes. Close range AoE can get you killed. It's a judgement call that depends entirely on your healer, your tank and your own experience. Ranged AoE is much safer, but it isn't anywhere near the close range AoE damage.
Edited by Awkward on 4/5/2012 10:49 AM PDT
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85 Human Warlock
1565
Thanks Domias. Yes, I toss HoG everytime it's there. Awesome special effects too:)

I only AOE in melee range when in meta form. I'm a chicken in cloth.

So, SoC can be effective at range for a demo lock? Seems like they explode before I can plant another seed into multi-targets.
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90 Dwarf Warlock
17395
Thanks Domias. Yes, I toss HoG everytime it's there. Awesome special effects too:)

I only AOE in melee range when in meta form. I'm a chicken in cloth.

So, SoC can be effective at range for a demo lock? Seems like they explode before I can plant another seed into multi-targets.


That's the whole point. Just keep chucking seeds and stuff will die.

Not as potent as it used to be (unless you're aff. SB+SoC is awesome), but it's still passable. However, Shadowflame and Immolation Aura are still your strongest AoE's since they aren't affected by the AoE cap.
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90 Dwarf Warlock
17395
04/05/2012 11:26 AMPosted by Jowan
pro tip! the pro warlocks only lurk in the warlock forums


I lurk in ALL the forums.

But they will say the much the same as I will. (Even if they know more about the nitty-gritty of min-maxing demo).

But yeah OP, if you have questions, head to the Warlock forums. More knowledgeable people than I reside there.
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85 Human Warlock
1565
I rarely post in forum. So apologies if there's some science to location, but seems like the responses I received are positive. Tyvm:)
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90 Dwarf Warlock
17395
04/05/2012 11:38 AMPosted by Kublaikhan
I rarely post in forum. So apologies if there's some science to location, but seems like the responses I received are positive. Tyvm:)


If you're considering getting better at demo, bookmark these websites.

http://elitistjerks.com/f80/t110366-demonology_cataclysm_4_3_release/
http://www.noxxic.com/
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/1012670/

They are probably the best resources you can get. If you can understand the Elitist Jerks website, then it has the best information on it.
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85 Human Warlock
1565
I've used EJ on my warrior and rogue, but yeah it gets hard to read sometimes.

Been away for awhile and noxxic looks like a keeper, but I just noticed they list secondary stat (after hit cap) as mastery over haste? Hmmm.
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90 Dwarf Warlock
17395
04/05/2012 11:51 AMPosted by Kublaikhan
Been away for awhile and noxxic looks like a keeper, but I just noticed they list secondary stat (after hit cap) as mastery over haste? Hmmm.


They do that, but that's the issue with guides. They're simply that, guides.

I don't think Noxxic really takes into account the gear scaling and whatnot. Once you get enough haste for the corruption tick (1994 I think it is), Mastery becomes better.

Until then, haste beats it.

You could always download simcraft and check for yourself though.
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
14375
Great advice so far.

Starting out, and in 5 mans, you don't really need to switch the felguard out for the felhound. But if you get into any serious raiding, it's worth doing what the post said above of using felguard, demonsoul him after his bladestorm is over, and soulburn summon the pup.

Honestly, in 5 mans, though, you aren't going to see enough of a difference to pull out the dog.

My AoE as demo, depending on the pull:
Felguard charge -> Bladestorm (I have it macro'd)
Hand of Gul'dan on tanks target
Demon form (if there isn't a boss for awhile)
Demonic Leap
Inferno (the demon form AoE)
Shadowflame
Hellfire

Obviously, if a boss is coming up, or if it's on CD, don't do the demon form stuff.

The only time I use Seed of Corruption is if it's too dangerous to get close, like lots of melee range AoE or cleaving.

Also, if you only have 2 or 3 targets, you'll likely do more DPS just multi-doting everything and single target everything. Still use bladestorm on the felguard, however, and use shadowflame if you are close enough.
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93 Orc Warlock
12300
I'd say use Metamorphosis sparingly, save it for the annoying mages who try to icelance you.

that icelance spam gets really annoying.

if you can, use deathcoil on mages, and then follow up with Fear, if one trinkets or blinks, use the felguard's pursuit, and if they use blink to get out of that, use the axe toss, and stay within reach of your demon leap. use immolation aura, Demon Soul, and then Hellfire while felguard is felstorming with your infernal stomping on them. it works so much, mages cant flee from it without a healer. make sure you got curse of the elements on that mage first so you'll hit for more.
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85 Human Warlock
1565
@ Gornok, you obviously have a distaste for mages, lol. Sounds like a Pvp response?
I'm more interested in PVE encounters (having too much Pvp w/ my rogue).

@ Awkward, yes seems the majority of suggestions have haste over mastery. Just tempting to go for master first, being a demo, but I'll refrain and cap haste.

@ Thingolo, Indeed being a new 85 demo... I'll be in more 5-man stuff until I get stronger.
Also, "if you only have 2 or 3 targets, you'll likely do more DPS just multi-doting everything"... good advice.
Edited by Kublaikhan on 4/5/2012 12:42 PM PDT
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
14375
04/05/2012 12:41 PMPosted by Kublaikhan
@ Awkward, yes seems the majority of suggestions have haste over mastery. Just tempting to go for master first, being a demo, but I'll refrain and cap haste.

This is another of those areas that in 5 mans, it's not much of a difference. The extra tick of your DoTs won't matter much on most of the content you are hitting, since it's only on bosses that you are likely to get more than 1 cast of the DoT. If I wasn't dual specced, I would definitely do mastery over haste for just 5 mans because it's going to make meta so very very much stronger. But it's also completely wasted when you aren't transforming, which took me forever to learn :)
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85 Human Warlock
1565
@ Robinwilliams (Btw I loved Mrs. Doubtfire), seems like that's my nagging question. It seems like guides and players have demo haste/mastery split.
Logically, being a pet dependent demo lock... I would think having much more mastery over haste would be more the answer, but I also have seen more guides that suggest haste:/
Kinda back to square one, but now I'm thinking dumping everything into mastery since I exceeded the 1007 haste. Do you have a source for the 1007? Ty in advance.
Edited by Kublaikhan on 4/5/2012 1:26 PM PDT
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