Raid ID and Rules of Conduct

90 Blood Elf Paladin
15305
Under your rules of Conduct

C. Rules Related to Game Play.
(i) Using or exploiting errors in design, features which have not been documented, and/or "program bugs" to gain access that is otherwise not available, or to obtain a competitive advantage over other players;

Please PLEASE show me where the documentation of how raid ID's function is found in game or easily accessed outside of game. That's all I want. It would also be nice if it mentions in this documentation that one use for the raid ID system is that you can take someone elses raid ID without their knowledge or consent and legitimately use it.

An official Blizzard response to this would make me happy. The standard ticket reply is not satisfactory.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Priest
11535
Everyone involved in the raid to start that get saved to a specific raid ID have equal rights to it.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Paladin
15305
04/10/2012 05:16 PMPosted by Flatspriest
Everyone involved in the raid to start that get saved to a specific raid ID have equal rights to it.

That's 100% not what I'm talking about.

This is what I'm talking about from my main post.
04/10/2012 05:14 PMPosted by Sardius
documentation that one use for the raid ID system is that you can take someone elses raid ID without their knowledge or consent and legitimately use it
Reply Quote
90 Human Death Knight
10320
Raid ID's do not "belong" to any particular player. By design, they are meant to be shared so as to accommodate group needs.

If you have an issue with the way the game is designed as far as raids go, you want the Dungeons and Raids forum.

If you are upset that Game Masters cannot second guess or override the way the game is designed, then your issue is with the devs and they are not on this forum.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Paladin
15305
Thank you for that reply, maybe I should rephrase my question to make it clearer. I'm talking about taking an entire groups raid ID. So an 11th person not within the group that cleared XXX bosses taking that raid ID without the knowledge or consent of the groups raid ID.
04/10/2012 05:32 PMPosted by Maul
If you have an issue with the way the game is designed as far as raids go, you want the Dungeons and Raids forum.

Yes I have a major issues with how the raid ID system is designed, but I'm trying to fix a problem rather than keeping this little known "use" of the raid ID system hidden from the general WoW playerbase. However to do that I'd like an official Blizzard response to the rules and uses of the raid ID system. I don't want to take my case to the court of public appeal if Blizzard's official response is it's ok, you can do whatever you want to "borrow" and "use" some other groups hard earned raid ID without their knowledge or consent.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Priest
11535
So what you are wanting to know is, if someone else that was in your original group later groups with someone else and that person gets saved, do they have the right to use that ID? The answer is yes they do.
Reply Quote
36 Blood Elf Hunter
210
It depends whether you are talking about old raids, heroic DS, or regular DS/ICC.

Regular DS/ICC have no raid lock, per se. They go by ecounter and anyone can mix and match.

Heroic DS/Old Raids have a Raid Lock ID that is instantiated when the first person enters the raid instance. That ID is shared among all players in the group. If the group disbands, then one player goes back and gets further, they impact the ability of all others in the group to do the rest of the raid.

Social convention says your communicate to the raid leader that you intend to go further on the lock. Is it required to do that? No. Anyone who is saved to the lock can use it. Choose your raid mates with care.
Edited by Alethìa on 4/10/2012 6:28 PM PDT
Reply Quote
86 Goblin Warlock
4380
Please PLEASE show me where the documentation of how raid ID's function is found in game or easily accessed outside of game. That's all I want. It would also be nice if it mentions in this documentation that one use for the raid ID system is that you can take someone elses raid ID without their knowledge or consent and legitimately use it.

An official Blizzard response to this would make me happy. The standard ticket reply is not satisfactory.


Anyone attached to a Raid ID can invite anyone they want and clear said lockout.

The Raid ID is owned by everyone and anyone with the Raid ID.

There are very few direct rules connected to it. Any rules deal with exploits.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Paladin
15305
Based off responses here I'm guessing there may not be any official rules on how the raid ID system works. So I will explain the whole story to keep the thread alive in hopes of a Blizzard GM response to why this is a legitimate tactic to do.
So March 31st my guild became the first on our realm to defeat heroic Spine and be 7/8. We failed to down Madness that night, but we were planning on trying again Sunday/Monday. Monday (I believe, altho maybe Sunday) a few hours before raid I'm just logged into WoW playing the game and I get an unannounced invite from someone I'll call Guildmember. We have someone in the guild named EXACTLY Guildmember except this guy had 1 vowel was ASCII version. I don't accept, he whispers can I get a summon to Ogri. I figure 2 hours until raid I won't need it sure so I invite him, but he's in a group. He says there's 2 of us. So he invites, now I'm in a raid group (still not thinking anything is up). I summon and drop group within 15 seconds of joining.
NOW MY GUILDS FIRST ON REALM 7/8 HEROIC LOCKOUT IS STOLEN. I was not aware of this tactic, no one in my guild was aware of this tactic, but after the other guild downed Heroic Madness to get Realm First the next Lockout (they spent all week working on it) they bragged and said that's how they got the Raid ID. So we put in tickets, GMs say they will investigate, but one guild member got a GM response saying this is legit. Others have tickets still open, I have 2 myself because I want Blizzard to say whether this is ok or not in their game. No one in my guild knew you could "Steal" a raid ID by just zoning in with someone else who has a heroic lockout. We most definitely did not CONSENT to them using our lockout as well we were unaware this was going on because we have no way to see who else is on the same Raid ID.

So in conclusion Blizzard my question is, is this type of behaviour acceptable and 10 people who try and cheat and scam the system using any trick necessary in the right? or is it the 10 people who are playing the game the way WE THOUGHT you had intended in the design in the right?

Also involving "tricking" people into joining a group to "steal" their lockout is it ok they used a very similar named character as a current guildmember? I can see in the future using an ASCII i with slant dot to trick future people like this. Or maybe ask a mage in another guild for a port for you and your buddy. Or maybe just random invites until someone accepts. etc..

I use " " around some terms because if Blizzard decides this is legit, those should be changed from "steal" to borrowed and "tricking" into nicely asking.

Sorry long post, thanks for reading.
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Paladin
15305
I should clarify how the tactic works. One person the inviter can be anyone. The other sits outside the instance (Dragon Soul in this case) waiting. As soon as the inviter gets the person with the Raid ID they want to join the raid group the other person zones in AND has now "stolen" the raid ID.

We tested this with alts to confirm.
Edited by Sardius on 4/10/2012 9:59 PM PDT
Reply Quote
59 Gnome Death Knight
160
I dont get it. They stole ur raid ID and got realm first H DW. That sucks. But u got there first and had more time on him. So they were better than you? Dont see the problem
Reply Quote
86 Goblin Warlock
4380
I should clarify how the tactic works. One person the inviter can be anyone. The other sits outside the instance (Dragon Soul in this case) waiting. As soon as the inviter gets the person with the Raid ID they want to join the raid group the other person zones in AND has now "stolen" the raid ID.

We tested this with alts to confirm.


You cannot steal a raid id.

04/10/2012 09:53 PMPosted by Sardius
We have someone in the guild named EXACTLY Guildmember except this guy had 1 vowel was ASCII version. I don't accept, he whispers can I get a summon to Ogri. I figure 2 hours until raid I won't need it sure so I invite him, but he's in a group. He says there's 2 of us. So he invites, now I'm in a raid group (still not thinking anything is up). I summon and drop group within 15 seconds of joining.


If you didn't accept the invite then you were not in their group.

You have already received a Blizzard response on your question.
Reply Quote
22 Human Warlock
8970
04/12/2012 02:37 AMPosted by Hathios
You cannot steal a raid id.


You can steal raid ids he just explained how it was done did you not even bother reading what he wrote.

If you didn't accept the invite then you were not in their group.

You have already received a Blizzard response on your question.


Again reread what he said, at first he declined cause the name was off just a bit, He then messaged him and asked for a summon, He was in a group so he invited him but when he invited him it was to a raid group so, the other person in group zoned into the instance and got the raid id from him. when it was to be just simply summons. They used a version of the guild members name to do it. To me this is should be considered a scam. The guild that done it should be stripped of all loot achievement removed and 72hour ban or longer applied to each involved.
Reply Quote
90 Night Elf Druid
14390
04/11/2012 09:34 PMPosted by Maliena
I dont get it. They stole ur raid ID and got realm first H DW. That sucks. But u got there first and had more time on him. So they were better than you? Dont see the problem


The raid group that "Appropriated" the Raid ID were able to bypass Heroic Spine since they could not complete it. They then completed Heroic DW on a Saturday.

The Raid group that completed Heroic Spine were not able to raid again til Sunday, where they did complete HDW

The non-heroic Spine raid was able to bypass a boss encounter that they could not complete on their own, and since they went a day earlier were able to complete the easier HDW encounter, and were awarded the {Realm First} achievement on HDW without ever completing Heroic Spine.

Hard to say the raid group that got realm first was better than the other raid since they used the current Raid ID system to completely bypass a "stage" of Heroic DS.

OP,

you won't get the answer you want here, besides reminders that its they way it currently works.

Best bet will be to post in the Raids forum to bring this to the attention of the Developers, they don't read this forum.

Good luck, and sorry for your loss.
Edited by Frostbringer on 4/12/2012 6:15 AM PDT
Reply Quote
61 Worgen Priest
10505
04/12/2012 05:12 AMPosted by Averro
You can steal raid ids he just explained how it was done did you not even bother reading what he wrote.

No you cannot. Anyone who was there and participated, thus being locked to that raid id, is perfectly entitled to extending that raid. They can get more member and continue it they want. They are lock to it just like anyone else. Just like anyone else they can do the same things as anyone else. There is no exploit here.

If you would like them to change the rules on raid ID's and lockouts then you need to post in the dungeons and raids forums. The SFA's in the CS forums have no control over any in game function nor are they liaisons to the development staff.

When posting your feedback in the proper forum please remember a few things. In order for it to get read it needs to be positive, on topic, and about your personal experience. Mainly due to legal reasons community managers and/or developers are not able to reply to our feedback but they do read it. Many many changes have come about in this game solely based on our feedback.
Reply Quote
36 Blood Elf Hunter
210
You can steal raid ids he just explained how it was done did you not even bother reading what he wrote.

No you cannot. Anyone who was there and participated, thus being locked to that raid id, is perfectly entitled to extending that raid. They can get more member and continue it they want. They are lock to it just like anyone else. Just like anyone else they can do the same things as anyone else. There is no exploit here.

If you would like them to change the rules on raid ID's and lockouts then you need to post in the dungeons and raids forums. The SFA's in the CS forums have no control over any in game function nor are they liaisons to the development staff.

When posting your feedback in the proper forum please remember a few things. In order for it to get read it needs to be positive, on topic, and about your personal experience. Mainly due to legal reasons community managers and/or developers are not able to reply to our feedback but they do read it. Many many changes have come about in this game solely based on our feedback.


Tinkr, you misunderstood. The people who appropriated the raid ID were never in their raid group participating in the raid. Two of the thieves got into a raid group and whispered one member of the raid team that had the ID and asked for a summon. The person was nice, accepted the group invitation and did "Have Group Will Travel", then left group. While IN group, the two thieves were actually standing outside the raid and one ran in and took the ID, while the other took the summon.

It used to prevent that by activating the raid id of the first person to enter the raid instance. So if the thief ran in, their lock would be active, then anyone trying to enter after them with a further lock wouldn't be allowed in. Not sure why it took the id of the furthest this time.

That wasn't the intended way for it to work.
Edited by Alethìa on 4/12/2012 6:52 AM PDT
Reply Quote
90 Blood Elf Paladin
10680
04/11/2012 09:34 PMPosted by Maliena
I dont get it. They stole ur raid ID and got realm first H DW. That sucks. But u got there first and had more time on him. So they were better than you? Dont see the problem


The didn't complete spine, they couldn't complete it and STILL can't complete it. So no, they weren't better.
Reply Quote
10 Blood Elf Priest
0
I think I remember something similar to this happening where a guild lost most of their attempts on a boss because of someone using that same method, back when end bosses had limited attempts. Can't remember if it was Anubarak or Lich King, or what guild, but it got a lot of attention at the time, so someone may be able to provide the details of that event to see if the offenders were actioned against.

In that situation, it was a simple wasting of the attempts rather than a raid group bypassing an encounter they could not complete themselves, but there are similarities.
Reply Quote
85 Troll Druid
6310
It happened to both bosses, albeit not to the same guild. The people were infracted IIRC but the attempts were not returned.
Reply Quote

Please report any Code of Conduct violations, including:

Threats of violence. We take these seriously and will alert the proper authorities.

Posts containing personal information about other players. This includes physical addresses, e-mail addresses, phone numbers, and inappropriate photos and/or videos.

Harassing or discriminatory language. This will not be tolerated.

Forums Code of Conduct

Report Post # written by

Reason
Explain (256 characters max)
Submit Cancel

Reported!

[Close]