Raid ID and Rules of Conduct

90 Blood Elf Priest
0
04/12/2012 09:25 AMPosted by Fluffypanda
I think I remember something similar to this happening where a guild lost most of their attempts on a boss because of someone using that same method, back when end bosses had limited attempts. Can't remember if it was Anubarak or Lich King, or what guild, but it got a lot of attention at the time, so someone may be able to provide the details of that event to see if the offenders were actioned against.
Yeah, this used to happen way back with ToC, quite a few posts on it. At the time, iirc, it was a douche guild being griefed so no one cared.@OP:

Totally sucks, but i don't think they'll do anything about it.edit:

And next time, start with the full story. It's much less confusing.
Edited by Arianity on 4/12/2012 10:45 AM PDT
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85 Draenei Shaman
11510
it really sucks that you guys lost your server first, which it sounds like you rightfully deserve, however, wouldn't this be a situation that you are responsible for rather than blizz? blizz can't control who you invite to your raids or who invites you to their raid.

if only the original 10 ppl saved to a raid id could continue that raid id, there'd be no way to swap new ppl in to replace absentees or change your raid composition for better attempts. you need to perform due diligence regarding your raid id and be aware of who you invite as well as who is inviting you to their raid and for what reason. i'd say you have prolly learned your lesson and this won't happen to you again; i just don't see what blizz could do to help you out in this case or in the future. protect yourself.
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90 Human Paladin
6780
I don't know how Blizzard would fix this programmatically, but they could bring down the ban-hammer on the group of players that took the ID and used it to bypass Spine. Clearly, they deceived the OP in order to take something of his, his Raid ID. It happened through the chat interface, so it's all recorded and Blizzard could review it. If they can ban ninjas and hackers, they can ban these yahoos. Personally, assuming the story we heard is accurate, I think they should. You shouldn't have to worry about losing your Raid ID just by helping someone out. Do I have to worry about my Raid ID if I'm enchanting something for a player or buying an epic gem from them? Apparently I do.
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86 Troll Druid
13745
Good luck trying to prove you got scammed and did not sell your raid ID and are trying scam those you sold it too out of the achievement.

It's like those who sold their accounts and then claim they were hacked.

How do you expect Blizzard to know who's telling the truth.
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90 Human Paladin
6780
04/12/2012 11:56 AMPosted by Kormakino
How do you expect Blizzard to know who's telling the truth.


Ummm ... chat log? (Again, assuming we're getting the real story, the chat log would be plenty of proof.)
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
12090
This is a very old trick. It goes all the way back to Vanilla. Guilds would zone into their partial raid to discover all their bosses were dead. There is no good way to counter it.

Blizzard needs to implement a system so this can't happen. They could start by implementing the current flexible lockout system for heroic modes. I have no idea why this isn't already done.
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100 Human Rogue
11320
I'm almost surprised Blizz is not willing to help you guys out. I guess technically no rules where broken, however, that is a problem in itself. You where essentially scammed. Blizzard rectifies scams when they involve loot disputes (where evidence is shown in the chat logs) so you could try and argue that this should be handled no differently. It's a long shot, especially since you've already had a response from Blizzard but what else can you really do?
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90 Tauren Paladin
9450
If you havent already post this on the realm forums, and be very vocal about it. If blizzard will not do anything kill the guilds reputation.
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86 Troll Druid
13745
04/12/2012 12:02 PMPosted by Biggby
How do you expect Blizzard to know who's telling the truth.


Ummm ... chat log? (Again, assuming we're getting the real story, the chat log would be plenty of proof.)


Let's say a chat from somebody asking for a summon to Org is probably not a good proof of anything.

But like the last poster said, I'm surprised this is not all over their realm forum already.. I was hoping for good drama action there, but nothing.
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85 Troll Hunter
LSI
11665
I'm also a member of his guild and have made a post here:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/1011646/

This explains a way that guild with the intent to steal a lockout (like what happened to us) would still have to go through the necessary means to obtain an acheivement like this.
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85 Night Elf Druid
17665
was expecting this to be a necro from 2005,

Raid IDs have been the players' responsibility since they were introduced. That was a well established rule that was cited often years ago (mostly attunement skipping in SSC/TK).As much as it sucks, and as underhanded as it was, you're out of luck most likely.
Edited by Asanenine on 4/13/2012 12:44 PM PDT
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85 Undead Rogue
6390
04/12/2012 11:22 AMPosted by Drakulich
it really sucks that you guys lost your server first, which it sounds like you rightfully deserve, however, wouldn't this be a situation that you are responsible for rather than blizz?


No, it wouldn't. Being invited to a group isn't a free invitation to be able to raid on someone's raid id. You're all missing the point of how this happened. They completed the raid with no one from the original group in the instance due to a deceitful summon request. There are other scenarios where this would apply, and none of them justify the actions of the other guild.

How about this for an example? You're flying around Durotar on a Vial of the Sands mount, and someone requests group just to fly on your mount for a second. You accept group to be a cool person, while someone unknowingly runs into DS and snatches your raid ID so they can bypass a boss and take your weeks worth of work. (I understand they didn't lose their lockout, but it allowed someone else to do something they couldn't have done otherwise.)

What if you're friends with someone in that guild and they ask you to do some arenas or BG's something of that nature? Then they run into DS to copy your raid id. That is not how the mechanic is meant to work. If anything this is a sign that the lockout system needs attention. Something like a dialog that allows someone to be extended to your lockout when they zone in, would completely stop this from happening.

Is that acceptable? Should a player have to constantly be thinking about all possible motives from a seemingly harmless request? The answer is no.

If Blizzard doesn't do something about this, when they go on and on about supporting fair competitive play, then I will definitely think less of them as a company. World firsts aren't the only things that matter to competitive players, server firsts are also very much desired.

The fact of the matter is, even though the world first achievement only requires you to kill Madness, the instance IS gated in that you have to kill spine first. Someone was deceived with a copied name and an innocent request in order to get a raid lockout that they could not otherwise achieve. That is the clear definition of cheating, and I sincerely hope that all the accounts that were involved get actioned. The account that impersonated the name of the player in the guild, should realistically be perma banned as well as that directly violates the ToS.
Edited by Scrotiusstab on 4/13/2012 2:33 PM PDT
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85 Dwarf Warrior
13030
04/13/2012 02:29 PMPosted by Scrotiusstab
If Blizzard doesn't do something about this, when they go on and on about supporting fair competitive play, then I will definitely think less of them as a company. World firsts aren't the only things that matter to competitive players, server firsts are also very much desired.


To be fair

the realm first is to kill Heroic Madness.

Not Spine + Heroic Madness.
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85 Undead Rogue
6390
The instance is gated requiring a spine kill to even fight Heroic Madness. The achievement requires the Madness kill, which in turn requires the spine kill. Clearly the gating in itself is a requirement. The only reason the entire raid group doesn't have to have spine is due to min/maxing and allowing players in the group to switch toons for more efficient raid comps.

It was absolutely not designed to allow an entire group of players who have not killed a gated boss, access to a later boss. In fact, Blizzard has openly stated they wanted to prevent that from happening when they implemented the Flexible Raid Lockout system in the first place. It was intended to "lock groups to heroic" when in this situation it allowed a full group access to it.

If they wanted groups to be able to get realm/world first's without killing spine, they would not have gated it.
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85 Dwarf Warrior
13030
04/13/2012 02:38 PMPosted by Scrotiusstab
The achievement requires the Madness kill, which in turn requires the spine kill.


It does not.

As is demonstrated by the fact this topic exists.
Edited by Asane on 4/13/2012 2:41 PM PDT
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85 Undead Rogue
6390
It does not.

As is demonstrated by the fact this topic exists.


Fighting Heroic Madness requires a Spine kill. The group that deceitfully hijacked the raid id, did not kill Spine. If it wasn't for that act they would not have been able to even get to Heroic Madness. That is the point that you are so unwilling to comprehend.

Here I'll put it into perspective for you. On an old account I was given a 72 hour suspension for summoning someone in Druid flight form making them fall to their death. I made up a story about the reason I needed them there, and they believed me. The reason I was suspended wasn't for griefing that player, it was because of how I manipulated them to group up and take the summon.

This situation is the same as that. A member was misled into joining a group, and that allowed 10 people to enter a gated instance that they hadn't cleared. The intent was the same as mine above, only instead of a brief moment of amusement watching someone fall off the violet citadel, they got a Realm first kill they didn't deserve.

Tell me how it's different, and tell me how this is even remotely justified.
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85 Dwarf Warrior
13030
04/13/2012 02:48 PMPosted by Scrotiusstab
Tell me how it's different, and tell me how this is even remotely justified.


You seem to be blindly making a point, so I'll let you continue.
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90 Troll Druid
10710
With the stance Blizz has taken in the past on raids and progression I'm fairly surprised they didn't investigate and automatically take a way the realm first achievement (assuming this is all true). Just looking at wow progress you know something is up. I'm glad I know about it now to not fall for it, but sry to you guys.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
14475
this guy had 1 vowel was ASCII version.

I can see in the future using an ASCII i with slant dot to trick future people like this.


You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Here is the entirety of ASCII (excluding non-printable control characters): !"#$%&,()*+,-./0123456789:;<=>?@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ[\]^_`abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz{|}~

Letters like í are NOT ASCII. You could call it a "non-ASCII character".
Edited by Lusignan on 4/14/2012 6:19 PM PDT
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1 Troll Priest
0
04/13/2012 02:48 PMPosted by Scrotiusstab
Fighting Heroic Madness requires a Spine kill. The group that deceitfully hijacked the raid id, did not kill Spine. If it wasn't for that act they would not have been able to even get to Heroic Madness. That is the point that you are so unwilling to comprehend.

Just so you know, fighting Heroic Madness does NOT require a Spine kill. You can do it with a 6/8H, Spine normal clear + soft-reset. Some people actually posted a thread asking if that's legit before and the answer from Blizzard was "yes, it's not illegal".
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