Any hope for fixing RNG Loot?

50 Goblin Hunter
11860
So since last week, I have killed Deathwing 17 times on Normal 10man. Currently working on Heroic DW but thats irrelevant. Anyway, I've killed Deathwing 17 times and Gurthalak has NOT dropped even ONCE. In fact, I was stuck with the LFR version up until 4 weeks ago, when I got Ataraxis. I can't even tell if its an upgrade honestly, which is quite depressing. Anyway back to Gurthalak, its one of 2 pieces I have left to get from DS and I have not even seen it once. I've never had so much bad luck with a desired item dropping and its really frustrating. Is there any chances that loot drops can be based off of what classes/specs are in your group? At least for 10man? Or increase the number of items they drop in 10man? Something?

I get that they don't want people decked in less than a month, but really we have gotten double drops of items no one in the group can even use. We have DE'D about 10 Hunter Staves (no hunters in our grp), 4-5 Bows, and the useless rogue daggers a couple times as well. Not to mention all of the healing maces, caster daggers, etc etc that people have gotten already and no longer need.
Edited by Pozzil on 4/10/2012 2:26 PM PDT
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85 Undead Mage
2170
It wouldn't "Random Number Generator" if they fixed it.
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50 Goblin Hunter
11860
So true, so how about adjusting it? =)
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85 Undead Mage
2170
Adjusting would be difficult because every boss drops 1 type of item, i.e. 1 melee dps, 1 spirit, 1 caster dps, 1 tanking, 1 hunter, 1 agility item, along with some weapons, shields, or off-hands.

Adjusting the system would making gearing characters too easy since people could possibly exploit it by just having a bunch of over geared players join the group to force certain items to drop.

The part of WoW is enduring the soul crushing experience of never seeing anything you want drop.

I've killed LFR deathwing 15 times, Normal Hagarra 8 times, and Normal Deathwing 2 times and NEVER SEEN ANY STAFFS DROP, let alone the effing dps caster off-hand off of trash.

Your luck is no better than mine.
Edited by Poppystick on 4/10/2012 2:32 PM PDT
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90 Human Paladin
16345
04/10/2012 02:27 PMPosted by Pozzil
So true, so how about adjusting it? =)


Charm of Good Fortune seem to help a bit with RNG loots in MoP (Google it if you don't know what it is)...
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50 Goblin Hunter
11860
Never said my luck was better or worse than anyone elses. Anyway, they could simply increase loot from 2 to 3 in 10mans and it would already help eliminate some of the useless drops. They could remove classes from loot tables that aren't actually in the raid; this only slightly affects the RNG simply because you still have to deal with loot of the other classes thats in your raid.

Just an idea that someone mentioned to me was implementing a token like system for weapons/loot off end bosses. Some people hate these systems but they're not going any where so yea. Anyway, using DW as an example, you get a point or token for each time you kill him. After say 10 kills, if he doesnt drop your desired item, you can purchase it or whatever item off sayyy Alextraza or someone. Obviously if you have killed DW 10 times (thats over 2 months of farming him) without any drops, you've clearly earned it.

inb4 someone claims it takes the epicness away, this is basically how the legendaries of this expac were handed out. Kill x bosses x times, you get legendary. I hope they don't do this for any other future legendaries, but having this possible option versus bad luck with no reward sounds decent to me (epic items that is, not legendaries).
Edited by Pozzil on 4/10/2012 3:21 PM PDT
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85 Dwarf Warrior
13030
04/10/2012 02:23 PMPosted by Pozzil
We have DE'D about 10 Hunter Staves (no hunters in our grp), 4-5 Bows, and the useless rogue daggers a couple times as well. Not to mention all of the healing maces, caster daggers, etc etc that people have gotten already and no longer need.


You listed everything on the loot table except 1 item.
That's fairly good RNG.
5 weeks for everyone to be geared out is a bad model, but it's the model that would end up happening.

10 man already gets more loot per person than 25, 2 weapons for 10 vs 4 for 25, make it 3 and you penalize 25 man even more.

04/10/2012 03:10 PMPosted by Pozzil
inb4 someone claims it takes the epicness away, this is basically how the legendaries of this expac were handed out. Kill x bosses x times, you get legendary. I hope they don't do this for any other future legendaries, but having this possible option versus bad luck with no reward sounds decent to me.


Yes, the legendaries sucked, I doubt anyone would deny. Grinding the daggers has been an unenjoyable experience.
Edited by Asane on 4/10/2012 3:13 PM PDT
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85 Human Warrior
8610
My guild has had a lot of Gurth's drop. We've looted Gurth 5 times off the last 4 kills. Next one that drops will likely be disenchanted unless a Holy Pally wants it for OS or something...

RNG is RNG, and 17 kills is not a large enough sample size.
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90 Human Paladin
16345
The 10-men rng loot "problems" basically boils down to:

Those who run 10-men know there is a problem, but don't understand the problem (The "let's have 10-men raid drop 3 loots" type)

Those who don't run 10-men think there is no problem, and don't understand the problem (The "both formats drop same loot per person, the system must be perfect!" type)

Devs (seem to) understand the problem but don't have a good solution to the problem (yet)...

At the end of the day it's just loots; it "may" matter for world first guilds but nowaday it's not like 1 or 2 pieces of gears would hinder progressions...
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80 Dwarf Shaman
15650
I get that they don't want people decked in less than a month, but really we have gotten double drops of items no one in the group can even use. We have DE'D about 10 Hunter Staves (no hunters in our grp), 4-5 Bows, and the useless rogue daggers a couple times as well. Not to mention all of the healing maces, caster daggers, etc etc that people have gotten already and no longer need.


Wait, so you've gotten everything BUT gurthalak?

Since we started killing Deathwing we've had nothing but pole arms, bows, and the rare rogue dagger drop. We've also had wrath of unchaining drop every single week from spine except once, we've probably sharded 10 of them now.
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85 Human Warrior
8610
Blizzard needs to fix the forums. Posters must get a license before complaining about loot (or anything else related to RNG), and in order to acquire the license, you must demonstrate an understanding of what exactly random is, because few people who post to complain about random actually understand it.There are 9 different weapons in the Madness of Deathwing loot table. If we assume that the 9 weapons all have an identically equal drop chance, then the odds of any one particular weapon dropping on any one particular downing of Madness are 2 in 9 (for 10man). This is slightly more than 20% (22.22%).

This also means for every 9 kills, any one particular weapon will drop, on average, 2 times.

This does not however mean that by the 9th time you've killed Madness, you've seen each weapon drop twice. It doesn't mean that by the 18th time you've killed Madness you've seen each weapon drop four times. These sample sizes are incredibly too small.If you've killed Madness 9 million times, chances are probably pretty good you've seen whatever particular weapon drop somewhere in the neighborhood of 2 million times (although there's still probably quite a bit of variance at this level, and we're still operating on the assumption of each weapon dropping with completely even odds).Think about it this way: Something that happens two times out of nine also FAILS to happen seven times out of nine. You're three and a half times more likely to see something not happen then you are to see it happen.

As other have pointed out, one or two pieces of gear aren't going to be a major hindrance on progression. And you'll replace it within the first few days of MoP anyway.Also, for what it's worth, if you're a warrior Ataraxis is worse than 390 Gurth, but Experimental Specimen Slicer (from Yor'sahj) is better than 390 Gurth.

If you're a paladin or death knight, I don't know, but it depends on how good Haste is for you.
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90 Goblin Mage
13670
The entire point of random loot is to keep you coming back every week for another shot. Teasing you is their business model. They're not going to change it.
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90 Pandaren Priest
12355
04/10/2012 02:23 PMPosted by Pozzil
So since last week, I have killed Deathwing 17 times on Normal 10man.


Ummmmmmm
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90 Human Rogue
12585
There's no real way you can fix an RNG loot system. It does suck. Everyone knows it sucks. But aside from making all loot available through VP or JP, what can they do to "fix" it?

Just as an example, my raid has received more than 10 Gurthalak's in 17 Madness kills. Our Warrior has 2, our Ret has one, our DK has one, our Holy Paladin has one. A few other randoms have gotten theirs that weren't part of the core.

But then, look at our trinket drops. We had our FIRST Cunning of the Cruel drop last week. That's 18 weeks without a Cunning drop. We've had one Vial of Shadows drop in 19 weeks.

RNG is RNG. It really sucks, but that's the way it is, and there isn't really a better way of doing it.
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85 Dwarf Warrior
13030
04/10/2012 11:28 PMPosted by Spug
But then, look at our trinket drops. We had our FIRST Cunning of the Cruel drop last week. That's 18 weeks without a Cunning drop. We've had one Vial of Shadows drop in 19 weeks.


That's more a "Firestone slot" system failure, Blizzard not taking feedback that shared loot table drops that EVERYONE NEEDS are awful.
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90 Draenei Warrior
14560
2 patches.

PvP weapons for the entirety of both since nothing dropped and the very very few times I saw something drop it was ninja-looted or I was barred from rolling because "lol DK tank".
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90 Human Rogue
10305
04/10/2012 05:23 PMPosted by Emmey
Devs (seem to) understand the problem but don't have a good solution to the problem (yet)...


The devs seem to acknowledge that there is already a solution to the problem. If you want better itemization run 25s. If you want the convenience of only having to coordinate 9 other people run 10 man. The choice is yours and it's a trade off either way.

You don't hear 25s QQ when a few people randomly don't show up and they have to 23 man warmaster (or not raid if its a lesser 25 man guild). You don't hear them asking for bots to fill in as subs. 25s get better itemization but have to deal with a world of BS in the logistical/management area. People who want to change the way 10 man loot works are asking for the best of both worlds and in a system where both formats are treated as equal there has to be some give and take on both sides or one side will completely die off (even more so then 25s are dying now).
Edited by Ninjablaze on 4/11/2012 6:56 AM PDT
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