Guide to Rath Strat AV's (Update Coming Soon)

90 Orc Hunter
16750
sorry
Edited by Dize on 6/15/2012 3:26 PM PDT
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90 Orc Shaman
5320
How does the great doctor join these? I was running these on my server till people quit showing up. Id love to join, you guys do summon Lokholar right? Send me a message ingame or something pleaseee
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71 Troll Mage
3850
It's pretty hard to take the whole "We just want to bring pvp back to world of warcraft" argument seriously when Rathamus attempts to park an alliance toon in every BG he does so he can look at the map and essentially maphack vs stealthies/etc. that try to sneak by.
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90 Troll Hunter
10405
06/17/2012 05:22 AMPosted by Såbinho
It's pretty hard to take the whole "We just want to bring pvp back to world of warcraft" argument seriously when Rathamus attempts to park an alliance toon in every BG he does so he can look at the map and essentially maphack vs stealthies/etc. that try to sneak by.


Not so. He happens to have a trinket or two that were removed from gear loot drops (but not removed from the game itself). Personally Rathamus hasnt led any groups for a few months now. So there goes your little claim right there. I personally ran with him when he was leading these groups.

The trinkets he has are perfectly legal since they are not removed from actual gameplay. So this means you cant do a thing about it. I personally dont remember the trinket names.
Edited by Sonsàku on 6/17/2012 9:32 AM PDT
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71 Troll Mage
3850
I can't tell if you're trying to be sarcastic or if you really thought "the trinket" was real. I'll assume the latter though since you seem pretty dumb. lool
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
8715
Sooooooooo I've been running with you guys for a little while now..... I like the set up.... I'd like to become a raid leader/mod if possible.... I understand how it all works and i have no problem following all the rules of Rath Strat =) Please let me know! Im almost always in Vent if you would like to talk with me or feel free to have one of the other Mods/raid leaders message me... Tnx!
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90 Troll Hunter
10405
06/19/2012 12:44 AMPosted by Ríckýrôss
Sooooooooo I've been running with you guys for a little while now..... I like the set up.... I'd like to become a raid leader/mod if possible.... I understand how it all works and i have no problem following all the rules of Rath Strat =) Please let me know! Im almost always in Vent if you would like to talk with me or feel free to have one of the other Mods/raid leaders message me... Tnx!


I would ask Rathamus, Sonny, or any of the other [Mods] or any other bracketed titles. Dont know who exxactly sets these up.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
5770
Unbeatable? When you guys went against open raids premade's you got rofl stomped it seems like an effective strat except when you hit another premade that doesnt straight run at you.
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90 Orc Warrior
15115
06/18/2012 09:25 AMPosted by Såbinho
I can't tell if you're trying to be sarcastic or if you really thought "the trinket" was real. I'll assume the latter though since you seem pretty dumb. lool


06/17/2012 05:22 AMPosted by Såbinho
It's pretty hard to take the whole "We just want to bring pvp back to world of warcraft" argument seriously when Rathamus attempts to park an alliance toon in every BG he does so he can look at the map and essentially maphack vs stealthies/etc. that try to sneak by.
I've run a lot of rath strats, and never once have I seen the a leader give directions that would suggest that they have or use "spy knowledge". The orders give are reactive, not proactive. They never send anyone to defend a location that hasn't been hit yet.

It's just not how it works. The preliminary strategy relies on alliance doing what they most frequently do. After that, we just react to what needs recapped, while moving to secure a choke point.

It's not inside knowledge. It's 40 people collectively using the layout of the land to their advantage against 40 people who are mostly not working in unison.
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85 Human Priest
1485
06/24/2012 09:19 PMPosted by Sesshomarü
Unbeatable? When you guys went against open raids premade's you got rofl stomped it seems like an effective strat except when you hit another premade that doesnt straight run at you.


Depends on strat. Rath Strat is counter to the zerg. So if there is no zerg then the strat isn't going to work.. Silly how that works right.... If you want I will gladly run a war game. The team that is going to play a lot more defense is going to win. If you read any of the thread or even run with them you would know they beat a lot more premades than lose to them. BG specialist have had encounters where they have had the best groups to run against. They have beaten us and also lost to us. I don't know if open raid really thinks they are undefeated because I know we have run IoC matches against premades and won. We sit in our base watched a crew run to WS looped around to hanger then just kind of sat around for 20min before coming at our base. Don't know who it was honestly because we don't try and figure it out but they lost terribly bad. I dont know many premade groups that run IoC personally why I would think it was them but we never did try and figure it out. Nor did we post on forums about winning against the premade.
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06/24/2012 09:19 PMPosted by Sesshomarü
Unbeatable? When you guys went against open raids premade's you got rofl stomped it seems like an effective strat except when you hit another premade that doesnt straight run at you.


Generally when we beat other premades we don't come to the forums and gloat about it (at least to my knowledge) Most of us find that kind of behavior a bit distasteful. I like to think that the majority of us are pretty good sports when we do lose (which is why I made the post when we did lose to the open raid group, it was a freaking awesome game from both sides)

And to clarify, we did not get roflstomped. We got overwhelmed by a superior healing team. I firmly believe if we hadn't had the number of pugs that we did we might have actually won (2 of them had over 30 deaths alone, when the rest of us had like 4 or 5). We put a good resistance up and held a number of coordinated chokes for 90% of the game. An declared HK farm ended up and pulling and killing Drek in order to beat us (not their priority, and we had Vann at 80% when they won). They outplayed us certainly, but they definitely did not 'roflstomp' us. All this said, props to that team and their leadership, they played an excellent game, and if I'm going to lose, thats the kind of team that I want to lose to.
Edited by Plurality on 6/25/2012 12:19 AM PDT
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Cool strat finally got to see it. We lost but having to actually think and use strategy even for pugs was a relief. Glad there is a counter strat to the mindless rush. Been playing Alliance since Pre-BC and glad someone came up with a new strat. I believe I will be queuing AV a lot more.
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90 Night Elf Hunter
14040
07/06/2012 02:51 AMPosted by Drjekil
Cool strat finally got to see it. We lost but having to actually think and use strategy even for pugs was a relief. Glad there is a counter strat to the mindless rush. Been playing Alliance since Pre-BC and glad someone came up with a new strat. I believe I will be queuing AV a lot more.


This strat was created about 6 or so years ago by horde when players realized how powerful the layout of the map was for horde and turtling. Rath copied this strat and moved the initial horde group from the IB choke about 100 yrds further down the road to behind galv. Even though Rath's strat is not as effective or powerful as the original strat it works well against pug groups, which is 99% of their competition in AV(as intended by the designers with a 5 man premade limit).

Basically the Rath strat is just scorched earth that forces the horde to use Galv to help kill the pugs instead of just doing it themselves at the chokepoint. This makes it easier for unskilled and low geared horde players to survive. It's not nearly as effective as Scorched earth, though, because it gives up the strongest choke in the game, lets alliance tower cappers to go all the way to Frostwolf keep, and doesnt stop the alliance from doing what they want. This isnt important, however, b/c when fighting a 30 man pug group(approx 10 afk/bots per AV) with a 40 man premade in vent in the most Horde favored BG in the game, a win is all but guaranteed.
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It's called scorched earth and the strat was made years before you.

Props on helping promote pvp in such a terrible BG, though.


That is a distinct possibility and something that has been brought up a number of times. However, at the time I had neither heard of that strategy, nor saw it in practice at any time within my realm OR within the Reckoning Battlegroup (when the realms were consolidated into such).

And thank you.


dude this has been a simple map mechanic since forever

you must've barely done any AVs
Edited by Minnopop on 7/6/2012 11:21 PM PDT
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90 Tauren Death Knight
21095
I just logged into the vent server after a couple of months away, and it looks like you're no longer using the Speex codec, which means Mac users can no longer participate, since we can't hear or talk on vent :( Booooooo.
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90 Undead Death Knight
14365
07/09/2012 09:14 PMPosted by Weetzie
I just logged into the vent server after a couple of months away, and it looks like you're no longer using the Speex codec, which means Mac users can no longer participate, since we can't hear or talk on vent :( Booooooo.


Yeah what's up with that. Is there a fix on our side we can use?
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3 Undead Mage
0
just my 2 cents on the rath...

All this while, I've thought the rath strat to be simply a loosely organised group of players who would agree to defend in AV to shut down the zerg. I guess you could say there was an element of competition and cooperation, but the main idea was to revert AV back to a PvP BG won by reinforcements.

I guess you could say that due to overwhelming success, the rath strat has evolved into something far more than it was before. Today, the rath is a full fledged 40-man premade that does not look out of place in a high-end RBG. The group has at least 5 or more extremely geared people, legendary rogues, legendary mages, 410 hunters...communication is very tight and everything is very well organised. Leader says go, everyone goes, leader says stay at IWB, everyone stays.

BUT...It seems clear to me that the current group is intent on 600-0'ing the alliance, with maximum HKs possible in a short time. The rath experience for the most part cannot be classified as PvP. It is like bringing a machine gun to a fist fight. There was no competition whatsoever, so I think that takes a little bit of the fun away.

Don't get me wrong: For farming HKs, the rath strat is great. Thanks for organising it. But if you are interested in actual PvP, then it is not so satisfying. You will literally need a very good 40 man premade to pose a challenge the rath strat.

All of the pug AVs that I won by turtling were actually fun, simply because the alliance actually fought back! (although turtles are by nature hard to come by)

I'm starting to think that a 40-man premade is overkill, and that a 20-man team that plays defense will instead result in more tense and exciting battles, bringing PvP back to AV.

Just my opinion.
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85 Orc Warrior
3970
The group has at least 5 or more extremely geared people, legendary rogues, legendary mages, 410 hunters...communication is very tight and everything is very well organised. Leader says go, everyone goes, leader says stay at IWB, everyone stays.

BUT...It seems clear to me that the current group is intent on 600-0'ing the alliance, with maximum HKs possible in a short time. The rath experience for the most part cannot be classified as PvP. It is like bringing a machine gun to a fist fight. There was no competition whatsoever, so I think that takes a little bit of the fun away.

Don't get me wrong: For farming HKs, the rath strat is great. Thanks for organising it. But if you are interested in actual PvP, then it is not so satisfying. You will literally need a very good 40 man premade to pose a challenge the rath strat.

All of the pug AVs that I won by turtling were actually fun, simply because the alliance actually fought back! (although turtles are by nature hard to come by)

I'm starting to think that a 40-man premade is overkill, and that a 20-man team that plays defense will instead result in more tense and exciting battles, bringing PvP back to AV.

Just my opinion.


I always viewed rath strat as akin to a bunch of tough guy persona swat guys suiting up and getting pumped like they were going to go to war...

And instead show up a 9 year old's birthday party to entertain.

They would come on here and proclaim ridiculous records aplenty...how they are all unbeaten in 7000 games against the alliance. And some of us took their superiority seriously...

...until they actually fought some premades, and then the losses started piling up.

"we don't brag everytime we beat a premade..."

yeah you do. this is the only group I know of on these boards that goes around bragging about their records...and their unbeaten streaks.

I don't read it from open raids peeps...or any other groups that form these large premades, who all most definitely have some ridiculous win/loss records.

I don't need to read up on the history of rath strat like it's some amazing special thing.

Rath strat people, get a ton of flack because they bring it on themselves. THEY create their threads to troll and brag, and then they get all giddy when we collectively say "shut up already...it's nothing special, enjoy farming bots and be done with it."

even CALLING it rath strat is ridiculous when it's scorched earth with very minor differences.

they sound like they are having fun, and bravo to them for going out of their way to organize such large groups consistently to benefit everyone, and creating a "society" of sorts. That's cool.

What's not cool, is reading "timmeh in greens" talk about how pro he is for being apart of some ridiculous 40 on 40 premade fight that one time, when we all know his part in the victory was merely to follow the rest of the cattle down the road to global that 112k mage.

Nobody in their right mind is taking you seriously, timmeh. You are still a crappy 390 geared, no ratings baddie who just happened to be smart enough to follow the most simple of tasks.

:)
Edited by Croak on 7/11/2012 6:30 AM PDT
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