04/19/2012 08:19 AMRathamus, given the advantages a pre-made group has over a PuG group, it seems to me the most effective counter to Rath Strat/RealID is another pre-made group. With that said, what do you feel would be the minimum amount of players required to work in (a) pre-made group(s) to be significant opposition to your group?
Posted by Helayne
Our Premade groups "usually" don't start until we have at minimum 23 players. It is what I have suggested to the others. This used to be 15 but due to gear scaling and the lack of buffs to the NPC's to counteract this, I had to adjust this. (Galv dies, Drek can be nuked)
So it is hard to say how many exactly you would be opposed against. We accept queues when 28-30 are shown to theoretically get into the same game. (The system isn't perfect and it is rare that everyone in the premade actually gets in)
The real key is to play to the PUG'ers. What do puggers do? They mindlessly zerg to the end in the race they come to expect AV to be.
I would say 25 alliance in a premade, PLANNING for the puggers to zerg south as usual, and a coordinated strike at the important mechanics of the strat by those in the premade could do damage and tip the odds.
We generally flex to meet any deviation from the mindless zerging we expect the alliance to do.
The puggers in our game, we expect them to rush north. We count them as our offensive split. Those in the premade, we seek defense.
Deception would be surprisingly easy to pull off with some planning on a premades behalf.
When we roll back for a tower that has been capped, we try to get a sense of how many Alliance are there. Early game, we can respond swiftly to send an adequate number of matching players to "purge" the tower (we don't like losing towers because it grants honor and diminishes our resources to which we rely heavily on to win). However, late game this becomes more difficult because of the time required to send back forces (greater distances).
This can be used to the advantage of an Alliance premade. Once you cap a tower, nearly immediately we send at least 1-2 guys back for it. If two towers are capped in too close of a span of time, we send 2-4 back because we know there could be more than 1 defender.
If you can get a group to a tower (3+), don't immediately reveal the entire group. When we realize there are more than the expected 1 and the 1-2 guys we send back are not enough, we send more.
Assault with 1, then when the 1-2 show up, do what we do to the Alliance @ Galv. Once the defenders engage you, have the extras show up behind them (have them hidden nearby out of sight or stealthed) and only match the force that was brought up.
You essentially only need to defend against 2 waves of us doing this before there just isn't enough time for us to ride back with a measured response. By the time the 3rd wave arrives (and assuming you have a healer), you will be out numbered but the timer will be so dangerously close to capping that all you have to do is defend at that point, live or die.
This tactic will allow you to chip at our towers and dwindle the resources that way.
Another often overlooked aspect from a Rath Strat AV (depending on the leader and their value of the nodes), mines are a great thing to keep control of and can over the course of a game, provide an advantage often missed. Each of the mines grant 1 resource every 45 seconds. 2 mines consistently held through an average game of Rath Strat would yield about 100 reinforcements. This could easily counteract the loss of a bunker.
In my personal games I lead, I place high importance on these mines and I am persistent in sending back 1-2 guys to take them depending on how difficult the Alliance player that's there is to deal with. In the events I cannot find volunteers (I rarely tell anyone what to do, I ask for heroes to step up), I go personally.The most important thing to know against a Rath Strat AV is that when you take a tower (because the towers should be your priority if you want to beat it), if the first 1-2 guys that show up to retake the tower fail, it is communicated to the raid what kind of opposition was seen (intelligence) and a more appropriately measured response is sent.
Use that to your advantage. Deception (and stealth classes) can do irreparable damage and tie up valuable resources (horde players going back to hunt them) that could be used elsewhere.