Guide to Rath Strat AV's (Update Coming Soon)

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85 Undead Priest
6015
Hmm. Considering Paetheas and Jadei's posts well.

So it looks like where we stand now is this. Setting aside any claims about fairness of the AV map and NPC differences, the most substantial explanation we have for why the Horde has been losing the majority of zerg-vs-zerg AV runs is that the Alliance has been doing a better job of abusing the BG (skipping everything and PvEing down the end boss as fast as they can), while Horde groups have this unfortunate tendency to try to complete the original objectives of the BG (much to the chagrin of the PvE zergers amongst them).

That's a pretty good echo of Rathamus' main justification for his years of operating his premade strategy : Because we can't keep allowing the Alliance to win by perverting the battleground and turning it into a PvE zergstomp, and we don't want to win by becoming even better than the Alliance at abusing the BG. Because we don't want a six minute win and a stats chart that reflects only the quality of PvE gear (and the number of Paladins and DKs) that we brought to this PvP battleground. Because we want to turn the entire map red and win one player death at a time.

I'll stop there and add that I'm not 100% sold on Rath Strat because I really do not enjoy farming anyone any more than I enjoy being farmed. What I'm really looking for is a consistent, repeatable group effort that first paints the whole map red and then destroys the boss. I understand Rathamus made an agreement some time ago to leave Vann's room alone as a last sanctuary for Alliance players during his runs. My opinion is they can make do with the Harpy caves or the Druid grove, we've got business to do. >:][
85 Undead Priest
6015
Dinpik, that's exactly what I'd like to see, heavier bosses and anything else that would make zerging simply impossible even in PvE gear. I was posting about that in the previous stack of this ongoing thread but it scrolled by amidst other arguments.

IMO it would be cool if the designers just made all major NPCs in AV (maybe bosses/generals, captains, warmasters/marshals, and commanders?) all scale up in health as each new gear level rolls out, or even just scale up at an even rate over time.
Hmm. Considering Paetheas and Jadei's posts well.

So it looks like where we stand now is this. Setting aside any claims about fairness of the AV map and NPC differences, the most substantial explanation we have for why the Horde has been losing the majority of zerg-vs-zerg AV runs is that the Alliance has been doing a better job of abusing the BG (skipping everything and PvEing down the end boss as fast as they can), while Horde groups have this unfortunate tendency to try to complete the original objectives of the BG (much to the chagrin of the PvE zergers amongst them).

That's a pretty good echo of Rathamus' main justification for his years of operating his premade strategy : Because we can't keep allowing the Alliance to win by perverting the battleground and turning it into a PvE zergstomp, and we don't want to win by becoming even better than the Alliance at abusing the BG. Because we don't want a six minute win and a stats chart that reflects only the quality of PvE gear (and the number of Paladins and DKs) that we brought to this PvP battleground. Because we want to turn the entire map red and win one player death at a time.

I'll stop there and add that I'm not 100% sold on Rath Strat because I really do not enjoy farming anyone any more than I enjoy being farmed. What I'm really looking for is a consistent, repeatable group effort that first paints the whole map red and then destroys the boss. I understand Rathamus made an agreement some time ago to leave Vann's room alone as a last sanctuary for Alliance players during his runs. My opinion is they can make do with the Harpy caves or the Druid grove, we've got business to do. >:][


I'm not saying it's the ideal way to play AV. I'm just giving my thoughts on why everyone presumes AV favors alliance in a zerg, when in reality, it doesn't.

"Punishing" alliance for playing the map in the way that offers them the best chance at a win and then claiming it's to bring PvP back to AV isn't really a credible solution to me. Alliance don't have a tight little chokehold at SH to make a defensive game a solid strat. I've been in SH turtles, some that were successful, but more often than not, ended up with alliance on the wrong side of IW. Is this what "PvP back to AV" horde honestly think alliance should be doing?

I haven't enjoyed AV since they added resources. If I get in an AV, it's not by choice.
85 Tauren Death Knight
5370
Aww, horde only? Drat.

That public WoW vent sounds like fun, though....


My understanding is there are a few people in Rath's group who are working on developing an Alliance subgroup. There are also several existing pre-made Alliance groups floating around the forums too.


I know that one of those leaders is actually lvling an alliance toon just for that reason,.......to make a counter strat to rath strat. He was also training a few alliance players in this style as well. How hes training them, that I do not know.
90 Tauren Shaman
8395
I was in a bg today and had some one tell me to check out rath strat. He said i had to get an invite. How do i get into a rath strat group?
81 Tauren Warrior
1030
AV is purely horde favored?

Did they take out Alliance bridge? Did they make all the alliance guard archers into melee like the horde have?

I have been away awhile, but when I left WoW, it was general knowledge that Alliance had an upper hand in AV due to the bridge choke points and the archer guards requiring they all be killed for ninja caps.

Did they change something, or has Alliance simply adapted no strategy other than Rush BoSS KiLL first? It was /is (barring no changes) clearly favored for Alliance in a zerg vs zerg meta game.

Outside of that, it sounds to me like the strategy is so viable as you are "synch" queueing as a premade and getting into pug queues. Which I can understand not wanting to wait Forever to get a game, but to me the most successful sounding part of the strategy is that you get a Huge premade against pugs.
25 Blood Elf Paladin
0
04/23/2012 10:16 AMPosted by Mintjelly
Did they take out Alliance bridge? Did they make all the alliance guard archers into melee like the horde have?


If the Alliance is in a position where they need to use the bridge then they've already lost.

The reason Horde guards melee is because there's far less room in towers than there is in bunkers.
81 Tauren Warrior
1030
In a zerg vs zerg game, where teams are rushing to kill bosses, 4 people being able to choke a team for even a minute and delay bunker caps, and the archers keeping stealthies from doing it, those two talking points are a huge advantage for alliance. Kudos to horde for not being beat by the same thing everytime, wonder if alliance can shift their meta game as well?
04/23/2012 10:40 AMPosted by Vyrin
Did they take out Alliance bridge? Did they make all the alliance guard archers into melee like the horde have?


If the Alliance is in a position where they need to use the bridge then they've already lost.

The reason Horde guards melee is because there's far less room in towers than there is in bunkers.


False
85 Dwarf Paladin
10075
Too bad there isn't an Alliance group that's active and running
85 Human Warrior
11200
I go with Alliance groups as well but have some dignity.

Horde players spamming /emotes and /spit on my chat log when being slaughterered by 20+ Horde is quite shameful on you all's part.
85 Tauren Druid
2180
Last night I caught a Horde premade player emoting /spit on one of the unfortunate Alliance casualties when we were camping SPGY. The issue was called out in Vent and raid chat and stopped immediately. Hopefully other premades (from either faction) police themselves as well at least some of the time, and not just ignore their own members' behavior.

Occasional teasing emotes is fine (not in spam quantities). The occasional /gloat or /victory, or /pat or /tickle on someone. But I'm not really into seeing teammates /slap or /spit anyone in a premade. We're winning and the enemy is having a bad battle, that's more than enough. The more pointed emotes are for random runs.
90 Night Elf Hunter
13740
AV is purely horde favored?

Did they take out Alliance bridge? Did they make all the alliance guard archers into melee like the horde have?

I have been away awhile, but when I left WoW, it was general knowledge that Alliance had an upper hand in AV due to the bridge choke points and the archer guards requiring they all be killed for ninja caps.

Did they change something


If the alliance has to use the bridge as a choke point, they have already lost. This is because they have to give up 250 reinforcements by abandoning 2 bunkers and Balinda.

Horde tower's have archers, not melee NPC's. The mere fact that you are trying to claim the bunkers have ally archers while the towers have horde melee just goes to show that you are either blatantly lying or you have never even played AV before.

Alliance bunkers do NOT require that you kill all their archers before capping, just like the horde towers, you have to use LoS to preform a cap if you dont feel like killing ONE archer for an easy cap.
90 Night Elf Hunter
13740
04/23/2012 01:02 PMPosted by Chéwnok


The reason Horde guards melee is because there's far less room in towers than there is in bunkers.


False


Thank you for backing me up. The horde tower NPC's are not melee, they are archers exactly like their alliance counterparts.

If the Alliance is in a position where they need to use the bridge then they've already lost.


If a team cant win AV with a 250 resource advantage plus a 20% health bonus, then they have no place in competitive pvp.
90 Blood Elf Rogue
9160
Great thing Rath is doing for the WoW - PVP community. TY to him and all the great leaders we have! Sonny, Xaeva, Devoo, Slayer, Borath, Crazylegs...
Edited by Checkursix on 4/23/2012 9:39 PM PDT
90 Troll Mage
5370
these are so damn fun, I encourage all hordes to join these. I've been around for 3 days and I plan on coming back ever day I can. Much respect Rath and all other leaders.
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