World of Warcraft®

Because when you moderate a community where half it responds to anything you do with "YOU HATE US!" it gets to feel forced. Like the response has become a meme. Like Blizzard could make the Horde hell to play by removing zones, cities, quests, kill off all their faction leaders, transfer some of the races to the Alliance.. even make entire dungeons and raids Alliance only and the response would still be "Blizzard favors the Horde!"

When has anything even remotely like this EVER happened? You try to negate real player frustrations with hypothetical scenarios that WILL NEVER happen, and yet wonder why the frustrations persist?

Alliance players are angry at what HAS happened. No posturing with false results will change that.

Sooo should we be getting our pitchforks and torches ready for a raid on George lucas as well? i mean his movies are obviously jedi biased! and don't try to say darth vader counts as sith, he goes back to the light side at the end!

but in all seriousness, this is a game yes, but its heavily focused around a story, and unfortunately its focus as of this point in time IS heavily horde focused, but look at our world we live in, can you say that at EVERY point in time in past wars, you would have something meaningful and interesting to say for both sides of the conflict? or would one sides actions draw more attention at one point over the other?

and as for the thrall argument... are people really as blind as they are making themselves out to be? they claim to care about story but pay no attention to the context of the elemental bonds quests... the fury part of that is just that HIS FURY! unrestrained by other emotion.
if you can't understand just how volatile someone would be if their personality was ruled SOLELY by anger/rage then you probably should not be using this quest as a argument point, but lets just say that for most people it would take A LOT less than someone threatening to wipe your race off the face of the planet to get them to hold even a bit of anger inside them!

but in the end this is a ongoing developing story that is not going to be completely 1-1 balanced, one side or the other is going to go through periods of underdevelopment and also, our characters can't be everywhere at once story-wise, would i prefer to take place in some of these defenses/battles? yes, but i can overlook some of these issues with the knowledge that in the past alliance has had the better development, the onyxia quest-line comes to mind as a specific example, alliance got a really cool version compared to the horde one. just learn some Patience none of us really know how mop is going to turn out.

Ok, I'm getting really sick of these threads.

1. We now NOTHING about the Ally side of Theramore
2. You attack a HORDE city in the final raid... and it's Horde favoritism. What a joke.
3. THERE IS NO FAVORITISM, Get it through your head already. Pre-Cata, Ally had it pretty good, and even had 2 parts of WoW where they were slightly more well done than Horde (Classic, Wrath). Just because there was ONE bad expansion doesn't mean there's favoritism.

Look, I understand why Alliance are upset, but all these threads and the screaming and crying only continues to further the stereotype that Alliance players are childish and complain-y. Here's my response to another thread...

This is what has happened:

Ally: OMG BLIZZ GIVE US AN ANSWER
Blizz: Alliance will strike back in MoP
Ally: OMG BLIZZ, WHY SHOULD WE TRUST YOU
Blizz: We have big plans for Alliance in MoP
Ally: OMG BLIZZ, GIVE US A BETTER ANSWER
Blizz: We've already given you an answer...
Ally: OMG BLIZZ, WHY SHOULD WE TRUST YOU
*rinse and repeat, over and over again

*Now do you see why people are getting frustrated by these kinds of threads?

I agree with Zarhym. This is getting annoying and stupid.

So is your argument. It doesn't matter that the raid is in Org. What matters is that it's a story about the Horde. We're just being used to progress your story. It's as simple as that.

You're not locked in to playing Alliance, if you want to experience the full story the option is there.

Personally, I'm quite fond of it, not only does it increase replay value, but it further distinguishes the factions from one another.

04/13/2012 02:01 PMPosted by Grandron

Sooo should we be getting our pitchforks and torches ready for a raid on George lucas as well? i mean his movies are obviously jedi biased!

Star Wars is what amounts to a single player game via that analogy. all viewers are on the same side. You would have a point if SITH SIDE MOVIES were also made, separate and parallel to the same story, with lesser content, and viewers were still charged the same amount.

That's what Blizzard's TWO fraction game does. In movies, it is always one faction.

This is the problem when you lean too heavily on one faction for an expansion. Expansions last for two years. If you dump on one faction, you are going to hear about it for two years. Alliance players don't like complaining about it for two years. Horde players don't like hearing about it for two years. Blues don't like hearing about the argument from both sides for two years.

This isn't some book or movie where large shifts in balance can be beneficial because they can be shifted back or resolved in a matter of hours or days. In a game like this a shift is going to last for years. That's fine I guess for your lore's progress but don't whine when you have to listen to complaints for two years.

So is your argument. It doesn't matter that the raid is in Org. What matters is that it's a story about the Horde. We're just being used to progress your story. It's as simple as that.

Except that that's nothing but your assumption. Blizzard has never said anything to confirm that the Orgrimmar raid is all about the Horde. In fact, they've mostly been talking about Varian Wrynn's major role in it whenever they talk about specific factions at all.

Yea, I'm just kinda done empathizing with this uber-skeptical, "we've been burned before" type of response to anything regarding faction content and story. The cynicism and sense of despair coming from Alliance players whenever story progression is discussed in any capacity is starting to come off a little forced. It's definitely not very useful.

Thank you for letting us know that our ongoing cynicism about the lack of a coherent storyline coupled with the (early) signs that the trend will continue into the future are forced and not very useful.

That does not change the fact that there is a lack of coherent storyline, a serious disconnect between some characters stated personalities and their actions, and a lack of meaningful lore representation in game for several races.

Zarhym, I've always liked you as a CM, but this type of statement is just as useless as what it's apparently railing against in my opinion.

Zarhym was there when Alliance heroes "going neutral" was seen as Horde bias, and now is responding to Thrall and Vol'jin "going neutral" as Horde bias.

see even the blues are tired of your whining. If half of you REALLY cared about lore, you'd have read it and know about it. This is just ppl whining to whine.

04/13/2012 02:09 PMPosted by Kytrielle

This is the problem when you lean too heavily on one faction for an expansion. Expansions last for two years. If you dump on one faction, you are going to hear about it for two years.

This. In a movie or book or tv show, changes of the tide can happen more quickly. For Alliance players, we are faced with this constantly for a much longer time.

Is there a movie that you watch everyday for two years? Most people play everyday. And everyday, there it is again. The time frame is longer and repeated daily.

And now Blizzard is tired of hearing it. We're tired of saying it. But every time Blizzard responds, almost without fail, it merely reinforces the prevailing feeling that they "just don't get it"

Their vocal disinterest in these concerns doesn't douse the flames. It fuels them.

Ok, I'm getting really sick of these threads.

1. We now NOTHING about the Ally side of Theramore
2. You attack a HORDE city in the final raid... and it's Horde favoritism. What a joke.
3. THERE IS NO FAVORITISM, Get it through your head already. Pre-Cata, Ally had it pretty good, and even had 2 parts of WoW where they were slightly more well done than Horde (Classic, Wrath). Just because there was ONE bad expansion doesn't mean there's favoritism.

Look, I understand why Alliance are upset, but all these threads and the screaming and crying only continues to further the stereotype that Alliance players are childish and complain-y. Here's my response to another thread...I agree with Zarhym. This is getting annoying and stupid.

So is your argument. It doesn't matter that the raid is in Org. What matters is that it's a story about the Horde. We're just being used to progress your story. It's as simple as that.

If it were that simple, I wouldn't see comments that the horde get to kill alliance npcs where alliance don't get to kill horde npcs (in starting zones is the only case where this is true)... And then in cases where those types of quests exist for both factions at the same time(level 20-60 zones), I see comments that it is "bad story telling". There's no pleasing in that regardless of the outcome.

Then there's comments about how people see major lore figures of both factions... because of their experience with those lore figures.

So no, it is not as simple as the alliance "just being used to progress the horde story."

04/13/2012 12:02 PMPosted by Trynaklei

Thrall wasn't Horde during Cataclysm. He was simply an orc. Just being human doesn't make someone Alliance automatically (Tirion Fordring, for example), so why should being an orc automatically make someone Horde?

he was before cata, and he will again be warchief...that isn't neutral...

the issue isn't going to solve itself. instead of acting like a baby and throwing a fit( a blue no less) they need to address the real concern. every preview the alliance gets..its of the horde doing something, not the alliance, the horde!!! even if there isn't a bias, just saying for sake of argument, they certainly seem to focus on the horde first. if they have to cut any content..it will once again be the alliance content being cut...

whether that is bias or not...it sure seems like they have their favorite....

''Their vocal disinterest in these concerns doesn't douse the flames. It fuels them.''...QFT

04/13/2012 02:10 PMPosted by Sharkon

So is your argument. It doesn't matter that the raid is in Org. What matters is that it's a story about the Horde. We're just being used to progress your story. It's as simple as that.

Except that that's nothing but your assumption. Blizzard has never said anything to confirm that the Orgrimmar raid is all about the Horde. In fact, they've mostly been talking about Varian Wrynn's major role in it whenever they talk about specific factions at all.

The central plot, however, as we know it, is that the Horde and Alliance raid Org to rid the Horde of Garrosh. Of course Varian has a role in it, he's the leader of the Alliance. To what extent... we'll have to see. Judging by what we've seen in the past, it's going to be a small blurb compared to what we see from Thrall and the Horde though.

I'm sure we'll end up with a cutscene showing Varian talking to other leaders, explaining why we need to take out Garrosh, and Alliance will have some pre-quests asking us to collect supplies.

I'll be pleasantly surprised if I'm wrong.

04/13/2012 02:17 PMPosted by Anron

whether that is bias or not...it sure seems like they have their favorite

And also flat out telling us his avatar choice was mainly a means of appeasement for Alliance players. And obviously an empty one at that.

If it were that simple, I wouldn't see comments that the horde get to kill alliance npcs where alliance don't get to kill horde npcs (in starting zones is the only case where this is true)... And then in cases where those types of quests exist for both factions at the same time(level 20-60 zones), I see comments that it is "bad story telling". There's no win in that regardless of the outcome.

While killing opposite faction npc's might be the case, the sheer involvement you get in the story couldn't be farther apart. Just look at the entrance quests/cutscenes for Twilight Highlands. If you can find me an Alliance equivalent, you can have ALL of the internets.

04/13/2012 02:16 PMPosted by Quintzaker

Then there's comments about how people see major lore figures of both factions... because of their experience with those lore figures.

Sorry, this sentence makes no sense to me, and I can't figure out what you're saying. Can you try to clarify?

The central plot, however, as we know it, is that the Horde and Alliance raid Org to rid the Horde of Garrosh. Of course Varian has a role in it, he's the leader of the Alliance. To what extent... we'll have to see. Judging by what we've seen in the past, it's going to be a small blurb compared to what we see from Thrall and the Horde though.

I'm sure we'll end up with a cutscene showing Varian talking to other leaders, explaining why we need to take out Garrosh, and Alliance will have some pre-quests asking us to collect supplies.

I'll be pleasantly surprised if I'm wrong.

So in other words, you're just going to assume the worst because you're ignoring everything that came before Cataclysm.

04/13/2012 01:50 PMPosted by Demonbrewer

Because that's what Orc totems look like

04/13/2012 01:50 PMPosted by Demonbrewer

I haven't played an Orc shaman before, so I don't know if his totem models are generic of Orcs or not.

Seems contradictory. lol

04/13/2012 01:50 PMPosted by Demonbrewer

(is he supposed to have gone to Totems R Us and get a new set when he stops being Warchief?)

To be honest, yes.
If you're going to pass him off as the ' world's most power shaman ' and make him be a peaceful, neutral being to save all of Azeroth, then yes.