World of Warcraft®

04/20/2012 10:34 AMPosted by Edâs

If I were you I'd change your expectations and hope for the best.

I'm sorry, but could you please tell me what my expectations are?

I am aware that Archaeology is all about luck, but is it Blizzard's expectation of me to have to do over 500 Tol'vir solves for the mount? The only reason I made this thread is because I want to know exactly how rare the rare solves are, and how uncommon it is for people to be near the number of solves I am at without seeing a single rare.

I am at about 430 Tol'vir solves since my last Tol'vir rare. There are still THREE Tol'vir rares that I haven't found and only ONE of them is the mount. I really hope I am a statistical anomaly and not many others have to suffer through this madness.

Is this what Blizzard had in mind when they implemented Archaeology? Did they want people to have to do this?

04/21/2012 02:13 PMPosted by Blaine

Is this what Blizzard had in mind when they implemented Archaeology? Did they want people to have to do this?

Here is a post Bashiok wrote on how he saw Archaeology back in January of last year:

01/26/2011 09:43 AMPosted by Bashiok

If you want to grind it out, it's going to be a grind. While the RNG of the tradeskill is sort of what makes it what it is there are some changes being thought of that could ease some of the more painful effects of just doing nothing but arch for days. Maybe getting a common doesn't have to be a total bummer, but a fractional-bummer, and maybe even just a 'dang'.

I think they thought it would be something you would casually do in your spare time.

Here is the link: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1965618868#12

I don't think they meant for Archaeology to come out in this state. Maybe Archaeology wasn't the product of a unified vision, but simply a casualty of unfocused project management.

Looking at Archaeology from a corporate lens, and not a game design lens, I can see how it came out this way. Sometimes projects get changed mid-stream and you don't get the luxury of time to readjust.

Deadlines are deadlines. You need do your best and salvage whatever you can of the project within the time allotted.

Main developers working the next MMO (Project Titan), the original Path of Titans idea scrapped, and Cataclysm release looming large, meant Archaeology probably didn't come out the way they would have loved.

They gave something that functioned, was on time, and was bug free. Not too bad from that point of view.

However, from a game design point of view...

Seriously though, don't let this secondary profession get to you. Accept the system the way it is and try to adapt around how it bothers you.

It's not much to take the pain away from your goal, but as far as adapting to they way Archaeology is, you might try to multitask as you travel around surveying (to make the most use of your time as you pursue Scepter of Azj'Aqir).

Here are some of the things I did to make Archaeology work for me:

1. If you are in Uldum, also keep an eye out for rare spawns of little Mysterious Camel Figurines. Most disintegrate into a lootable 25g pile of dust, however, one of these can give you a chance to get a rare mount and achievement. I found one and got Reins of the Grey Riding Camel

2. Flying around Outland and Northrend for Archaeology, I had found a few rare mobs to cross off my list. I focused on them recently and ended up finishing the Bloody Rare and Frostbitten achievements.

3. Gives me something to do while waiting for a daily heroic to come up. Any keystones I find, I put them up on the Auction House. I've made thousands of gold selling keystones.

4. After doing dailies, I can still make money as I work on my Archaeology solves, by selling keystones I don't need (see above).

5. If there is a digsite in Eastern Kingdoms or Kalimdor near where rare drops are, I'll swing by and see if they are up. I've made thousands of gold selling Darting Hatchling (Theramore), Ravasaur Hatchling (Un'goro), Leaping Hatchling (Northern Barrens), and Razormaw Hatchling (Wetlands).

6. If there is a digsite in Eastern Plaguelands, I'd run through Stratholme. A 10 minute run for a shot at Baron Rivendare's mount. Got Deathcharger's Reins. When I was surveying in Terrokar Forest, I'd stop by and try Heroic Shethek Halls. Also got Reins of the Raven Lord.

7. If there is a digsite in Frostwhisper Gorge (Winterspring), there is a vendor named Vi'el who sells on cooldown limited amounts of Felcloth (80silver) or Gromsblood (10 silver). I sell each on the Auction House for a few gold each.

8. If I had a gathering profession, I would have made thousands more selling raw materials on the Auction House (materials harvested near digsites or on the way to digsites).

finally, got the tol'vir mount today =) the quest is over.... unless, of course, MoP brings an even cooler (and rarer) arch mount...

04/16/2012 09:41 PMPosted by Tiggindy

That means in approx. 420 solves, I have not seen the Scimitar, Staff, or Scepter (mount). Is this a bug or are the rares really that rare?

Peeps can put up the math indicating that you should have gotten something by now, and that you're at a 99.whatever% chance to have gotten something more by now, but the answer is, you're a statistical outlier. In any RNG system, it can happen.

I highly suggest that you ignore Kyborie. If what she just posted is accurate/true, then she's incredibly lucky and uses her personal luck to try to convince others that archeology is perfectly okay. It's not okay, and her experience makes her a statistical outlier in the opposite direction from you.

Of course, it doesn't pay to listen to me either, since I point out things like "Consider the time it took you to do 450 tol'vir solves, now consider the fact that before you completed any races (if you have), you spent at least 3 times the time spent on tol'vir doing digs/solves for other races..."

Anyone here have to do over 450 solves to get the mount? Please assure me that I am not the only one who has had to suffer through this seemingly endless nightmare.

There's folks that have done over 1000 troll solves (for example) without seeing the sword. You don't generally see posts of "I just got that thing I've been looking for after 643 solves".

Usually what you see is anger and despair.

Which makes me wonder why Blizzard implemented something like archeology that directly contradicts their design philosophy.

This.

04/22/2012 12:08 PMPosted by Unjoiner

I think they thought it would be something you would casually do in your spare time.

It's been suggested many times by peeps other than you that the folks at blizzard have suffered severe head trauma or been drugged too many times... one of which apparently produced amnesia and/or reduced their ability to read anything previously written/recorded.

I still don't believe it.

Regardless of what Blizzard may have stated publicly, they know how the players react. They've got 7 years of data. Holidays (before achievements), gave them info on how much of their playerbase is interested in pure fun/lore. Holidays (after achievements) gave them info on how much of their playerbase will do things of that type for achievements. The original PvP, the old holiday drop system and other things gave them information on the unhealthy lengths players will go to in order to acquire gear AND cosmetic stuff (titles, mounts &ct.) in order to lord it over other players.

Players interested in lore/fun would do arch. Pet collectors would do arch. Mount collectors would do arch. When you consider that peeps have been clamoring for a way to get a bug mount for general use since vanilla, that will draw in more than just the mount collectors. That's still not a large portion of the playerbase. They added the ilvl 359 items specifically as an enticement to draw in as broad a segment of the population as possible, knowing they players as they do.

Any claims that they intended peeps to do this casually are disingenuous.

I don't think they meant for Archaeology to come out in this state. ...
Looking at Archaeology from a corporate lens, and not a game design lens, ...
Deadlines are deadlines. You need do your best and salvage whatever you can of the project within the time allotted.

That's one of the things that has made Blizzard such a darling of the players and generally respected.

If something wasn't ready for launch, then they'd delay the launch. Saying "deadlines are deadlines" implies that they've shifted away from their focus on producing the kind of quality software we expect.

Seriously though, don't let this secondary profession get to you. Accept the system the way it is and try to adapt around how it bothers you.

I'm a rabid pet collector. My goal is to get all the pets. If you check my armory, you can see that I've pretty much met that goal. The only pets I'm missing (that are currently available) are lil' tarecgosa, which I'll have in 3 more weeks, and the crawling claw.

There really isn't any adapting to do.

That means I only dig in Kalimdor, so #2, #6 don't help. I've already got the hatchling pets for 14 different toons (yes, literally 14), so that doesn't help me.

The queue time for heroics, even for DPS is less than 10 minutes, which means I could do maybe 2 digs while waiting... assuming I was even running dungeons on this toon (I'm not), so that leaves 3 out. That was useful back when queue times were 30 mins+

I've never been particularly interested in gold acquisition, so 4 and 7 are out. 8 is out since I'd double the time spent just flying around if I tried to mine everything I saw. Archeology is annoying enough without stopping for every node I see.

I don't really look for the camel, but I probably ought to.

I am currently at 458 Tol'vir archaeology solves.

I have not seen a rare Tol'vir artifact que up since solve #30 or so, which was the monkey paw.

That means in approx. 420 solves, I have not seen the Scimitar, Staff, or Scepter (mount). Is this a bug or are the rares really that rare?

Considering I set out to get the mount in November, it seems unfair (and extremely depressing) that I have done this much digging with zero result. The only reason I am continuing to dig is because I do not want to admit to myself that this has been a complete waste of time (many days /played doing nothing but flying around Kalimdor).

After reading comments on WoWhead saying "100 solves, wow what a grind" and "It took me over 60 solves, don't give up!" or better yet "I got this on my first solve" I literally feel sick to my stomach. My friends think I'm messed up in the head for continuing, and to be honest, I agree with them at this point.

Anyone here have to do over 450 solves to get the mount? Please assure me that I am not the only one who has had to suffer through this seemingly endless nightmare.

"Working as intended"

"God forbid you have to work for your rewards"

"You just want free epix"

"I love archeology, I find it very relaxing and think its fine"

"Archeology is easy to level"

Just a few of the infuriating responses you will get.

04/23/2012 05:22 PMPosted by Tiggindy

I'm a rabid pet collector. My goal is to get all the pets. If you check my armory, you can see that I've pretty much met that goal. The only pets I'm missing (that are currently available) are lil' tarecgosa, which I'll have in 3 more weeks, and the crawling claw.

I was checking out the companions you've collected... very impressive! Hope fortune smiles on you and you get the Crawling Claw soon.

Also hope the upcoming Pet Battle System frees you up from grinding the same companions for all of your alts.

I feel kinda bad for putting that blue post earlier (I wasn't trolling, honest!). I also remember seeing a similar blue post around a year later:

01/30/2012 07:16 PMPosted by Crithto

Archaeology is one of those peaceful things in game I do when it’s late and slow or when I’m queued up for a dungeon or LFR. It’s quite enjoyable and with the various pets and mounts you can “dig” up, there are some very strong incentives.

The overall message from Blizzard seems to be that Archaeology was supposed to be a fun side project to do in our spare time.

It would have been better for me to have posted what Ghostcrawler said about Archaeology in his Post Mortem on Cataclysm ( http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/4519250 ):

I have mixed feelings about Archaeology. I feel like it’s a good addition to professions and offers more, and more varied, gameplay than our existing professions. Still, it’s clear that some players wanted more. We wanted Archaeology to be hard to complete. We didn’t want it to be one of those professions you can max out by buying up mats at the Auction House. But random reward systems whose long-term goals are more interesting than the short term ones can feel grindy. Archaeology had too much travel time. It could be punishingly random, especially for players who imagined that it would be a guaranteed delivery mechanism for Zin’rokh (which was never the intention). Players missed a lot of the lore, which was delivered in the Archaeology journal and not as part of the survey or digging experience. We think the Mists of Pandaria expansion will be really good for Archaeology. Players will be focused on a couple of new races on a single continent, so travel and randomness will be reduced automatically, and leveling Archaeology should be a bit more convenient since there will be more opportunities to dig at a single site. We have other tricks up our sleeve too.

04/24/2012 11:10 AMPosted by Unjoiner

Also hope the upcoming Pet Battle System frees you up from grinding the same companions for all of your alts.

Actually, archeology killed my motivation for that too... which is why my goblin and worgen are both under 80 pets each. Then when they announced account wide pets for MoP, I knew I didn't have to bother.

I've got 2 accounts though, and my other account needs to get about 20 or so pets, so there's still a little to work on there.

It would have been better for me to have posted what Ghostcrawler said about Archaeology in his Post Mortem on Cataclysm ( http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/4519250 ):
I have mixed feelings about Archaeology. [...] Archaeology had too much travel time. It could be punishingly random,

That's an understatement. Then again GC has to put the best possible face on things.

Since we don't know what the intended drop rates are, nor do we know what the actual drop rates are (and we don't know if the rates have been adjusted), we can't say whether or not Blizzard dropped the ball on that. Historically speaking, they've messed up pretty much every multi-layer RNG they've implemented in WoW and had to make adjustments/fixes.

especially for players who imagined that it would be a guaranteed delivery mechanism for Zin’rokh (which was never the intention).

First off, Zin'rohk was player bait. I think players expected it to be a Zin'rohk delivery system in the same way that noxious whelps are a delivery mechanism for Tiny Emerald Whelplings now. Meaning, you get to a point that you can do X, and then you do X until the RNG gods smile on you.

Players missed a lot of the lore, which was delivered in the Archaeology journal and not as part of the survey or digging experience.

Yeah, that's just misleading.

Unless I've completely missed something, the only lore delivered via archeology is when you find things. Until you've found/completed a project, you don't get the lore. Which means that for peeps to have "missed lore" they simply didn't complete all the projects.

The other thing here is that I'm willing to bet that over 75% of the player base doesn't care about the lore.

We think the Mists of Pandaria expansion will be really good for Archaeology. Players will be focused on a couple of new races on a single continent, so travel and randomness will be reduced automatically, and leveling Archaeology should be a bit more convenient since there will be more opportunities to dig at a single site. We have other tricks up our sleeve too.

Players will still have to level it from 1 to 500 (or whatever), and they'll still want the items from prior to Pandaria, since some peeps are completists, some are collectors and some just want want they want (a mount, a pet, a recipe, a model for transmog or whatever).

If they're not addressing archeology in the rest of the world and hoping that "well, it'll be not as horrible going forward" is going to make peeps in general happy, I may have to take back my assumption about amnesia/brain damage...

I got every single rare except for the scepter mount is less then 50 finds, its annoying because its everything I dont want! or can use...... despise RNG

Must be bad luck. I've got everything but the claw. I'm at around 170 Tol'vir solves.

IMO give up, there just gonna nerf it eventually they have talked about wanting to make it so you can focus more on one race. The mount wont be as nearly as hard to get in the future as it is now. F U nelf digsites.

04/26/2012 10:19 AMPosted by Saturn

IMO give up, there just gonna nerf it eventually they have talked about wanting to make it so you can focus more on one race. The mount wont be as nearly as hard to get in the future as it is now. F U nelf digsites.

I'd rather get it out of the way now. I'll be busy with other things when Panda opens.

04/26/2012 11:31 AMPosted by Eluvia

I'd rather get it out of the way now. I'll be busy with other things when Panda opens.

Chances are I'll be busy with exactly the same thing I am now when Panda opens.

Priority list:
1. Collect any/all new pets.
2. Everything else

The fact that I haven't gotten past step 1 in Cata is a failure on the part of archeology.

I feel really bad that I got the Crawling Claw in 8 Tol'vir solves...

I was actually just about to make a thread complaining about going 120 tol'vir commons now since my last rare.. with 4 rares left to get.

I shall swallow my sorrow and wish you the best of luck.

Im pretty much dreading this.

My priest is only on 92 Tol'vir solves and only 2 rares, while my NE is complete and on 144 solves and i currently have 4 NE sites up. oy vey.

Hope yours pops soon OP, break our curse!

Took me over a year and a half farming to get the bug mount. And it's the only rare I have from tol'vir. Archaeology is one of the worst things they added in this game.

700 solves for the sword, didn't look for the mount.

Please kill me.

488 Tol'vir artifact solves.
My last solve was in the mid 30's. That's at least 450 Tol'vir solves without a single rare artifact.

It would have been refreshing to see at least one rare during my voyage, even if it was not the one I wanted. Now it just scares me to think that when a rare finally does que up, it only has a 33% chance to be the one I need.

too me..time is the most valuable thing in wow. after spending all that time and effort..with a big fat ZERO. whats your insticnts telling you?