Blizz: Only Gameplay, orcs, and humans matter

90 Gnome Warlock
1565
04/14/2012 11:55 AMPosted by Malanis
Not that the lore is perfect or anything, but this whole thread is founded on a false premise entirely and full of false assumptions and accusations.


No it isn't. Zarhym was doing spin control on what Metzen said because it was evident that what he said was not smart in light of how popular the other races are, and how much people are hoping that they will get development independent of Thrally Sue or Varian Hellscream.

Hell it's taken 4 years for the Draenei to get even a token sample of lore in the form of a short story. That alone should be inexcusable for anyone that's interested in the Warcraft universe's lore.
2 Goblin Warrior
0
04/12/2012 05:14 PMPosted by Jorahlol
I don't know how devs don't go crazy by the amount of retarded crap they read here.
9 Tauren Druid
0
04/12/2012 05:15 PMPosted by Ghorog
He's saying that the franchise began with orcs and humans.


Well REALLY it was Orcs and Draenei Lore wise. :P
In glancing again at my too long post on the previous page, I see I didn’t address the subject of this thread, except by implication.

In the clear light of day I would like to add that whether anyone at Blizz has outright stated what the title of this thread indicates, or whether the words of the OP or Blizz have been skewed or misrepresented, it doesn’t actually matter to the game itself. In PR terms, yes, it probably matters---but not to the game. Orcs and humans started it (the pillars); everyone else has been drawn in (buttresses?), just like real world wars.

And of course the gameplay is the most important thing. There would be no game without it.

And with that clarification of the underlying base for my lo-o-ong post, I stand by what I said: the game is amazing, and the story lines need work. Some of the races also need more visibility and story, but there is a genuine problem of scope here.

There is one possible solution to the inevitable neglect of races, (warning: heresy here) and that’s to actually get rid of some of the races. For example:
  • Draenei could return to Outland/Draenor, or take off again to parts unknown in a Naaru ship, or be slaughterd by an Orc attack, while Draenei adventurers (players) remain and are based in, perhaps, Darnassus.
  • Forsaken as a group could be eliminated as much too dangerous, with a few remnants, and the adventurers (players), settled in another Orgrimmar slum.

  • Their stories and presence remain in the lore, but they don’t need to have in depth gameplay or story devoted to them.

    Yeah, I know . . . PR again, eh?
    Edited by Trilliam on 4/14/2012 6:42 PM PDT
    90 Troll Hunter
    7185
    Will things blow up if I ask questions?
    90 Troll Hunter
    7185
    Or just happen to make an observation about the alliance...
    90 Human Paladin
    7910
    This Might hehe
    90 Human Paladin
    11990
    I think you're off on a lot of that. It's not all that matters, it's just where the story started.
    Are Humans and Orcs the heart of all this? In a way yeah, but, that kind of fits. We are the two founding and leading races.

    Besides that, the Thrall being a hypocrit stuff? Oh yup. The Rhaegar thing especially is a nice rare find.

    Although you might want to be careful. I've heard tell they ban people just for making silly jokes about Thrall, so pointing out how he's actually a jerk, who knows what'll happen then.
    90 Human Paladin
    7910
    My niece AND nephew and cousins will hopefully be joining both sides. When they get their new windows.
    90 Human Paladin
    7910
    Only need 6 other for one for eternity right?
    90 Dwarf Hunter
    9965
    @OP Here's how I took what he was saying. The Alliance and Horde are like 2 seperate rock bands. Humans and Orcs are the frontmen, everyone else is the band.

    Every race cant have an equal amount of face time all the time. The game would just be silly.
    85 Blood Elf Hunter
    1340
    The increasing complexity of the world should be leading to more depth in the story lines, not less. But it may take time another Cata type expansion to see this happen.
    85 Troll Mage
    5965
    04/13/2012 04:07 PMPosted by Drinzul
    You, I, and everyone here all know that whatever Zar says is just not going to matter because you already have the mindset of believing the lore sucks. They aren't just going to do a major overhaul of certain things you think are "issues" so what did you want him to say? That "you're completely right and we'll rewrite everything right now!"?


    You are not understanding the complaints at all if this is all you can get out of it.

    We don't want a major overhaul to appease the fans. We want some validation, someone to say, "Hey, you know we did drop the ball with Worgen or Draenei or making Wrynn the new war-chief, despite the Alliance being an actual alliance." We want to feel that our complaints are actually being noted.

    Go to the beta forums and look at how GC is responding to class threads, is it really that much to ask to get a similar experience with lore?


    But that's not the point of this thread at all.

    You want your complaints to be noted, but that leads to Blizzard changing Lore that doesn't need to be changed now, or in the future. It is fine the way it is. Ontop of that, your arguments on some aspects in this thread are so ridiculous that it doesn't even make any sense.

    The point of my post, however, deals with a poster getting anal crusaded over Zarhym's post to another person in this thread. He has already come forth and explained his reasoning. But people still force their opinions onto a radical field of illogical stances and expect him to cave in when really it shouldn't happen. Obviously he doesn't agree with what you are saying, but you are not getting the point, and therefor, he's stopped trying. Personally, I do not blame him.
    90 Night Elf Druid
    7145
    I think that perhaps there's a bit of a theme in the complaints here in that the story team could stand to be a bit more like the art team.

    WoW, both in game and in other media not limited by polygon rendering constraints, definitely has a unified feel to it. Call it the Samwise style of WoW art.

    Storyline for Warcraft 1-3 had a similar unified feel to it, especially within each game.

    In WoW storylines have splintered all over the place in comparison.

    This is probably due mostly to sheer volume, especially if you regard anything out of game as even remotely canon storyline.

    So better coordination within the in-game story team and between the story and quest teams might be useful. Or if they already work and communicate well together, have them try to figure out a way so that it doesn't seem quite so haphazard to an end user who wants really good story in game.

    Also keep in mind that WoW is an RPG in the Tank, Heal, DPS sense of role not in the traditional sense of dice, character sheets, and GM who always rolls out of sight so that RNG that screws up story or gameplay can be quietly squashed with no one else ever being the wiser. Don't expect WoW to be a good GM in the tabletop RPG sense of weaving the players into a story. We are a long, long, long ways from having that kind of gaming AI, and without AI that can do it GMing is far too labor intensive to have humans perform in an MMO. Really good GMing takes years of practice, and several hours of prep per hour of play time is not out of line if you want players to have a really great experience.

    For RP purposes changing and contradictory lore background doesn't have to be a big downside. It can allow for fairly complex character development. Ramalina's attitude towards Orcs would take a page or two to write out, and spans a range from genocide to invitations for tea depending on which which subset of Orcs you're talking about. Of course this really doesn't get to play out in game except in maybe declining some quests ( they don't even really have choose your own adventure style quest chains except for a few Pick faction A or faction B quests). Still for a classical style RPer, it does enrich my character backgrounds which is about about as RP as WoW gets, and I do appreciate that when I'm not in mid-rant concerning, "WoW is in no way shape or form an RPG any more than any other IM software is."

    Personally I regard Warcraft as canon (actually make that superlaser), WoW as canon that's a bit sloppy, and everything else as spitballs that they didn't even bother to spit on. Punny metaphor aside, it works a lot better if you're willing to just pretend that some of the egregiously bad stuff either doesn't exist or is somehow not
    really contradictory after all. If you have an insanely high tolerance of boring writing you can research scriptural apologetics and learn all about how to do things like reconcile black and white being the same color by using 43,000 words worth of circular illogic ( I exaggerate, slightly). Seriously though, I find the Lore much improved by selective amnesia. Your English Literature and Writing teachers (should have) taught you how to improve writing by cutting the bad and/or irrelevant stuff, so use that knowledge and apply it to the Lore, or at least to the Lore you choose to remember. ;)
    1 Blood Elf Mage
    0

    No it isn't. Zarhym was doing spin control on what Metzen said because it was evident that what he said was not smart in light of how popular the other races are, and how much people are hoping that they will get development independent of Thrally Sue or Varian Hellscream.

    Hell it's taken 4 years for the Draenei to get even a token sample of lore in the form of a short story. That alone should be inexcusable for anyone that's interested in the Warcraft universe's lore.

    Orcs and humans are the foundation of the series. They are the PILLARS that the series was built on. That is what Metzen said and that is true. There is no "spinning" except on the part of the OP and those echoing him.

    Unless you'd care to argue that the draenei and the blood elves and the worgen and so forth existed at the time of Warcraft I/II when the series was being founded and built from the ground up, but I doubt anyone is that misinformed.
    90 Night Elf Warrior
    7040
    Those of you who were calling Skytotem 'butthurt' or 'immature' or 'a whiner' don't know what you are talking about.

    This has been a long time coming, and those of you who have been ignorant to Skytotem's contributions and attitude and stance on things would do well to wise up or shut up.

    He made the right move. (IE getting the hell out of here)
    90 Night Elf Druid
    9145
    Warcraft 1 and 2 were radically changed by Warcraft 3. The two series have very little in common from a thematics point of view. Sargeras was bumped from foot note villain to big bad. Deathwing and the entire Dragonain history was rebuilt and retconned, entire new lands were introduced, new races, the powerbase of both Humans and Orcs decimated, numbers vastly weakened.

    The entire system underwent a massive revisioning that altered the way the world worked. Titans, mythological beings, Old Gods. It took a huge leap forward.

    The series saw it's true birth in WC3, which was by far the most popular of the RTS. I mean, with the exception of Deathwing, the majority of the story lines in WoW originated from WC3. And even the Deathwing story was changed and altered and retconned to meet the WC3 lore standards.
    1 Blood Elf Mage
    0

    The series saw it's true birth in WC3, which was by far the most popular of the RTS. I mean, with the exception of Deathwing, the majority of the story lines in WoW originated from WC3. And even the Deathwing story was changed and altered and retconned to meet the WC3 lore standards.

    "True birth"?

    Okay. I give up. Clearly, people like you and Skytotem know what Warcraft is and has been better than the guy who created it.

    According to you, the Alliance is not the Alliance, the Horde is not the Horde, Warcraft I and II aren't Warcraft and so forth.

    Most ludicrous things I've ever read. I can't even grasp why anyone would have such an agenda of slander against Metzen or the lore in general, but it's clear as day that there's no point trying to resolve it, as it just grows more and more convoluted, with more and more slander and forced false interpretations added to the mix.
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