Blizz: Only Gameplay, orcs, and humans matter

90 Night Elf Druid
9145
"True birth"?


Warcraft 1 was made before Metzen came on board as a contributor . He was an artist

Warcraft 2 was made with input from Metzen.He did artwork and manual writing

Warcraft 3 made the franchise as we know it today, with Metzen taking the helm. I actually don't think Metzen came on board WC2 until ToD as far as major story shaping contributions

It laid down the concept of titans.
It laid down the concept of Dragon Aspects.
It laid down the concepts of druidism.
It laid down the concepts of Orcs being a once noble race.
It laid down the concepts of Orcs not being evil.
It laid down the concept of the Well of Eternity.
It laid down the concept of the Burning Legion (it certainly existed before, but it wasn't nearly as strong or as over reaching).

Warcraft 1 and 2 had their universe drastically changed with the coming of Warcraft 3. This is not up for debate. It's not up for discussion. It's a fact. Now, understand when I say "true birth" I mean the birth of a world with a cosmological pantheon, the broader outlook of just good vs evil, and all that jazz.

Most ludicrous things I've ever read. I can't even grasp why anyone would have such an agenda of slander against Metzen or the lore in general, but it's clear as day that there's no point trying to resolve it, as it just grows more and more convoluted, with more and more slander and forced false interpretations added to the mix


"I don't agree with what they are saying, SLANDER SLANDER!"

Again, if you want to say I'm "slandering" Metzen, then you should take a step back and realize WC3 was HIS input, and he wasn't there to give said input for WC1 and WC2 in that capacity. He didn't helm "creative development" until WC3.
Edited by Ferlion on 4/15/2012 7:34 PM PDT
1 Blood Elf Mage
0

"I don't agree with what they are saying, SLANDER SLANDER!"

Again, if you want to say I'm "slandering" Metzen, then you should take a step back and realize WC3 was HIS input, and he wasn't there to give said input for WC1 and WC2 in that capacity. He didn't helm "creative development" until WC3.

Agree? There is nothing to agree or disagree on.

The reason it's slander is because you are superimposing false perception onto objective facts that can't even be argued or debated.

Orcs are the foundation of the Horde and humans are the foundation of the Alliance. They are how these two factions started. That is an objective fact that is not up for interpretation. Hence, slander is any claim against this fact.

What does Metzen have to do with what Warcraft is? What does his time at Blizzard have to do with anything?

Warcraft started with Warcraft I. It then proceeded to Warcraft II and everything else that came after I. That is all Warcraft. It's one Warcraft universe, one Warcraft game series, one Warcraft everything.

You are literally trying to change objective facts by slandering them. I've never seen such nonsense before.
90 Tauren Warrior
9485
What's your opinion on this? Metzen stated in his interview that only orcs and humans matter, so why do we even have the other races? Aesthetics?

Think hard people, before you dismiss these threads as QQ out of hand, go back through the story and look through it, consider how it's presented to new players, look at the way the story's been changed, and developed since WC3 and decide whether you're really happy, and want to keep supporting Blizzard.

Look at what Blizzard says and how.

Remember how they've told the Alliance they'll 'fistbump' yet the only thing happening is them helping Thrall get back on the throne of the Horde.

Thrall who hates slavery.

Thrall who logged in ashenvale (Like Garrosh)

Thrall who killed dwarves in southern kalimdor (Like Garrosh; seriously, an old thousand needles quest had him send a war party to wipe out a bunch of diggers).

Thrall that allowed Reghar Earthfury, a slave owner, to be his advisor.

Thrall who made Gallywix leader of the Goblins after he tried to kill him, and was a slave owner.

Thrall, who, apparently, the Horde can't wipe its nose without.

Think Hard People.


This is dumb
90 Night Elf Druid
9145
The reason it's slander is because you are superimposing false perception onto objective facts that can't even be argued or debated.


Except it can be. Yes, the Humans and Orcs were the two races that started the Alliance and Horde. However, that doesn't mean the Alliance and Horde are held up by Humans and Orcs anymore. My point was that Blizzard, despite saying that they don't mean Humans and Orcs are all that matter for Alliance and Horde, constantly push the Humans and Orcs above other races.

Zarth responded with his natural course line. I pointed out that it's not the natural course, because when the Orcs and Humans were the foundation of the Alliance, they were much more prolific in numbers and political power. This is no longer the case in todays alliance, so there is no reason the other races would bow down to the humans. The Orcs and Horde at least have the excuse of being honorbound to follow the war chief thing going.

Yet the Humans and Orcs are still pushed up so much more compared to every other race.

They can say they mean one thing. It doesn't matter until they show it though. And even Blizzard has admitted to that. So. Yeah, it's not really slander until they put up.

The current Alliance is not built on the back of the humans. the current Horde is not build on the back of Orcs. These two races certainly started the Alliance and Horde. They are not propping it up. Or, at least, they shouldn't be. The story and world has grown beyond that. Humans and Orcs at this point are just another race in the Alliance and Horde respectively. There should be no "by extension" with them.


It's one Warcraft universe


The Warcraft universe as we know it didn't exist until WC3. Yes, as far as timelines and such go, WC1 and WC2 happened in universe. From the out of world perspective though, the Warcraft Universe, with it's gods, ancients, loa, Titans, Old Gods, The Sundering, the history of the Elves, the history of the Trolls, the Tauren, or anything else that makes the warcraft realm interesting....didn't exist until Warcraft 3. Hence the true birth of the warcraft universe.

Everything else before that was just a story. It wasn't a world. It wasn't a universe.
You are literally trying to change objective facts by slandering them.


Not really. I'm not being malicious, I'm not speaking falsely. You just don't agree with me. I'm pointing out flaws in their reasoning to help improve their product. You are attacking anyone who doesn't agree with their view, and being a rude little twit while doing so.
Edited by Ferlion on 4/15/2012 9:37 PM PDT
58 Undead Death Knight
120
Seriously, Malanis, they aren't going to make you an MVP, you aren't going to get free game time, they aren't going to be your buddies on the forums, stop sucking up.
85 Troll Druid
2945
04/15/2012 10:03 PMPosted by Gandred
Seriously, Malanis, they aren't going to make you an MVP, you aren't going to get free game time, they aren't going to be your buddies on the forums, stop sucking up.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shill
90 Human Paladin
12000
04/15/2012 07:26 PMPosted by Everen
Actually, at this point, it's probably safe to say that some of the fans do know more about Warcraft than Metzen does, and probably have a deeper understanding of some of the themes introduced by other writers.


This.
Soooooo much this.
Metzen doesn't really fill you with any confidence as a player does he?
It's more that everytime I read an interview by that guy it makes me feel more and more as if he's completely out of touch, doesn't get it, and the worst, is that he has no interest in ever "getting it" or trying to understand anything outside of whatever he has decided in his head cause he thinks we're all a bunch of silly people who don't understand anything, so why should he? He's the great big wizard of OZ! (correlation to green jeebus intended)

I mean look back to the stuff several of them were saying after the blizzcon fall out. Lot of it sounded so....dismissing and demeaning. It was post after post and then a dev watercooler of "you people are silly, all of you, we don't take you seriously, we hear your concerns about us being out of touch but we're just writing it off as you people are silly, case closed".

Doesn't matter if the other side is silly and dont' have the right on a subject, you still come to the table and parlay with them.

Metzen doesn't really make me feel very listened to lately.

P.s. also hey look, I said something that wasn't shilling for blizz. Guess my name's up on the "never an MVP" board now lol
1 Blood Elf Mage
0
04/15/2012 10:03 PMPosted by Gandred
Seriously, Malanis, they aren't going to make you an MVP, you aren't going to get free game time, they aren't going to be your buddies on the forums, stop sucking up.

So arguing against blatantly false accussations against the LORE is somehow "sucking up" to someone?

It speaks volumes of this entire little clique dedicated to slinging mud at everything in terms of lore development that you are so swift to switch to personal slander and accusations as well.

Fortunately, a vocal minority is just a vocal minority. Not that it would change anything if anyone gave this nonsense any credit anyway, since you're essentially arguing with a solid wall of undisputable facts. Insanity reigns.
90 Night Elf Druid
9145
So arguing against blatantly false accussations against the LORE is somehow "sucking up" to someone?


Well, you know.. When so many people read it the same way.. It's not blatantly false. Yeah.. kinda..the definition of blatant. I mean. Literally. It's the definition. Plus, what they say doesn't really matter, what they do does.

It speaks volumes of this entire little clique dedicated to slinging mud at everything in terms of lore development that you are so swift to switch to personal slander and accusations as well.


You've been slinging mud and name calling far before the little "clique" which doesn't exist. So your right, it is rather telling that your so insecure in your arguments that you can't make them without throwing in insults, ill tones, and every other trick in the book to make your argument look better without touching actual facts.

And, by the way, we we don't point out errors at everything. Just the stuff that is wrong/illogical/ difficult to understand. Many of the revelations in Cataclysm have been widely praised in the Story Community. It just doesn't stem from the Alliance/Horde.

Fortunately, a vocal minority is just a vocal minority. Not that it would change anything if anyone gave this nonsense any credit anyway, since you're essentially arguing with a solid wall of undisputable facts.


Fairly sure we broke that wall of "undisputable" facts within a few pages of posts....Yeah.. Not indisputable. Again, if that's how they feel, they should show it, instead of just saying it.

Gonna need you to try again Jim


Insanity reigns.


And we have soda. We generally share, but you know what? No. You don't get any.
Edited by Ferlion on 4/15/2012 11:51 PM PDT
90 Human Paladin
3830
04/12/2012 05:07 PMPosted by Zarhym
What's your opinion on this? Metzen stated in his interview that only orcs and humans matter, so why do we even have the other races? Aesthetics?

You didn't just quote him out of context. You changed the meaning of what he said altogether:

http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/03/30/chris-metzen-on-mists-of-pandarias-story-and-why-the-players-are-the-real-villains/

Chris Metzen:
"...the pillars of the franchise are orcs and humans; it really is the Alliance and Horde by extension, and it really is those two groups beating the brains out of each other for an extended period of time. That’s always gotta be what Warcraft is about..."

He's saying that the franchise began with orcs and humans. Those two races are the pillars upon which the Alliance and Horde were built. But the story has progressed and evolved so much since Warcraft: Orcs and Humans. Just because the faction rivalry has its foundations in a war between two races doesn't mean we think no other races matter.

I'm not saying his statements shouldn't be up for discussion. But I beg you not to start the discussion based on a false pretense.

Edit:

04/12/2012 04:55 PMPosted by Skytotem
Look at what Blizzard says and how.

Seriously. Look.


op was owned now move along
85 Gnome Priest
3085
Dont worry, theyll just retcon some more lore in to make the horde better. Like instead of Lothar being killed by an ambush, he gets killed in honourable one on one combat....

And like instead of draenei being beings of insidious evil that turned a titan. They are beings of unparalleled good... that got turned by a titan.

Meh, Warcraft 2 was this series highlight. Then it all started getting... well stupid.

Lucky the gameplay and art is solid or this game wouldnt have anything going for it.

The whole thing was so much better before all these dragon aspects, time travel, titans... sigh. Complexity doesnt make things better. Soap operas have extremely complex story lines (Just try mapping out who has slept with who) but they are awful. Wow is reaching that. Overtly complex awfullness.
Edited by Gnomeopathy on 4/16/2012 12:22 AM PDT
85 Worgen Death Knight
3815
There is only one racially driven xpac that comes to my mind, and that is Burning Crusade, which was centered around blood elves and drenaeii.
99 Night Elf Warrior
7380
Meh, Warcraft 2 was this series highlight. Then it all started getting... well stupid.


Man after my own heart!

op was owned now move along


You aren't cool.
Edited by Sesshomaru on 4/16/2012 2:28 AM PDT
58 Undead Death Knight
120
I like how you post that piece of flame bait on a level 1. Hmm, now that I think about it, it seems a number of level 1s have been appearing lately posting inflammatory posts directed towards those unhappy with the story.

Isn't that odd.
85 Draenei Death Knight
5500
Well aparently Metzen is correct on the fact the other races don't matter after they left the Alliance Leader Velen out of a Summit in the recent book Wolfheart.

Here is my post that goes hand in hand with this one all to well.

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/4427668241?page=1#0
90 Undead Hunter
13155
So many people complain all the time that their chosen race isn't getting the spotlight, but I think it would be damn near impossible to make new, current and equally interesting lore for all the races at all times. Dwarves, Humans, Night Elves, Draenei, Gnomes, Worgen, Orc, Forsaken, Troll, Tauren, Blood Elf, Goblin; things would start to get messy and out of hand. The devs have usually focused their expansions and major content patches around a particular theme or race(s) for years, it hasn't all been just Orcs and Humans. Plenty of lore has already been established for each race.
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