Blizz: Only Gameplay, orcs, and humans matter

90 Human Death Knight
0
Night elfs in my opion are being shunned and i dont like it. IDK i just really love the night elfs and wish they would be a little more acknowleged because they are very Ver important lore wise.
85 Night Elf Druid
5690
See I don't read the stories/lore etc. Though I do recall the Forsaken gas-ing horde and alliance. So my thinking there is why aren't there 3 factions. As there seems to be anyways. Forsaken, Horde, Alliance. Puzzles me how the forsaken can do what they do. And not be its own selectable faction in the game. Plus since wrath it mostly seems alliance and horde from cutscenes and text. Seem to be trying to patch a relationship there. So how is it we still PvP against them? I'd love if PvP was no more horde vs alliance given that concept. And more like a mesh of alliance/horde characters vs another team of alliance/horde. True they dont want us to talk cross faction. However, if its just with the given party then its just PvP chat.
85 Troll Druid
2945
04/15/2012 11:35 PMPosted by Malanis
So arguing against blatantly false accussations against the LORE is somehow "sucking up" to someone?


you face a mountain of evidence against your argument, you've been in just about every thread where someone is bashing blizzard. You wouldn't be here if Zeph hadn't showed, or at least arguing to such an extent.
It speaks volumes of this entire little clique dedicated to slinging mud at everything in terms of lore development that you are so swift to switch to personal slander and accusations as well.

Fortunately, a vocal minority is just a vocal minority. Not that it would change anything if anyone gave this nonsense any credit anyway, since you're essentially arguing with a solid wall of undisputable facts. Insanity reigns.


Such insolence... such arrogance... must be PUNISHED!

~Ley-Guardian Eregos
85 Troll Druid
2945
like how you post that piece of flame bait on a level 1. Hmm, now that I think about it, it seems a number of level 1s have been appearing lately posting inflammatory posts directed towards those unhappy with the story.

Isn't that odd.


They seem to be different people, If you put them on ignore every character from an account gets ignored.
90 Night Elf Hunter
6835
I also like how the blue made a long post about how the quote was taken out of context, when it wasn't really. Then he spends all the time addressing NOTHING about the actual premise of the OP.

That just shows that Blizzard doesn't care at all about keeping lines of communication open between the developers and the fans. I'm coming to the conclusion that they just don't care anymore. I mean they still haven't answered the Ask the Devs #3 about lore that was posted about 2 months ago.

It is true that Orcs and Humans have a majority of the story and Zarhym says as much in this thread anyway:


We're not going out of our way to ensure they're always the ones in charge. But that's been the natural progression since the Horde were founded more or less under absolute rule by the most powerful chief of the most powerful orc clan.


Similar to what I said about the Horde above, the Alliance formed an allegiance around human kingdoms. If you're suggesting they're thematically better served by a republic or democracy, Azeroth lore says otherwise.


So he derails the thread, doesn't contribute any additional information or try to open up lines of communication with the lore developers, but instead defends their narrow story telling with reasoning that is REALLY grasping at straws as to why the Orcs and Humans get most of the story.

Are blues just going to come into threads to try to derail threads now instead of actually talking about the problem at hand? It seems they are just ignoring players when it comes to lore. Ugh.


Facts simply trump rage every time.
90 Night Elf Hunter
6835
04/13/2012 01:28 PMPosted by Healstime
Sky also forgot that Zarhym isn't the one making the story and has little to no control over it. He was taking it up with the wrong person, all he can do is relay the information and support those he works with. Really Sky should try to get in on one of the Metzen interviews or one of the Dev things where they take in ideas and talk to them there. His show of knowing lore alone would get them to take things seriously with him if he shows it to them.


Then the blue didn't need to post at all, he could just ignore it as usual. It's nice if they chime in to say they are listening or they are working on the development of other races, you know relay information. But to derail a thread with a clearly ambiguous quote and say it's clearly defined but completely ignore the actual issue at hand is not needed at all.


Translation: "If the blues disagree with the posters they should just shut up."
A lot of us "get" this too if we aren't on the hate everything Blizz does bandwagon.

Anyone who was around for the early years may remember the kind of chat interacting with the blues that everyone enjoyed. This is no longer possible with the rage and anger crowd who inhabit the game and forums these days. I am amazed that any of the blues still chat with us at all and I certainly do not blame them for feeling the need to defend themselves against the distortions and accustations that they have to deal with here all the time.

Too many posters want subservience from their blues and "yes" men who will promise all 5,000 different views on how to make this game better to be implemented at the same time. They do not even "get" why this is not just unreasonable, but unfair.

We are playing a game based on someone elses creative ideas and stories. Everyone has the opportunity to play through these creative stories if they subscribe to play this game.
If I was so miserable, I would choose another story in another game to spend my money on rather than let my bitterness boil over as though the current storyline was ruining my entire life.

Ideas and constructive discussions are a great way to let the writers know what you want, or like, but the rage and anger on these forums push far beyond that all the time. I am amazed the writers have any motivation to create good stories at all when all they get here is beat up, raged at and demeaned at every turn.

Do you also expect writers of books to change their stories when you do not like them to the point where you rage on them as well?

It is really discouraging for the whole mmo genre future when people become so mean and callous as we see here every day. I sympathize with anyone working in this field today when their customers not only cannot be pleased (too many differing views) and go off on them like they are the enemy at every turn.

There is simply far more rage than reasoning on these forums.
85 Troll Druid
2945
04/16/2012 10:34 AMPosted by Kyraz
Facts simply trump rage every time.


they aren't facts if they've been easily disputed.
90 Night Elf Hunter
6835
04/14/2012 08:42 AMPosted by Morrie

I haven't had a drink this year, thank you very much! I've been on the forums long enough that they've caused me to drink, AND caused me to stop drinking. :p


Regardless, I think your extremely flippant attitude, even towards people that may deserve it, is something you may want to look at and consider.

Just my two cents.


My dime says I disagree with your attempt at psychoanalysis.
I guess you like your blues to be little more subservient?
90 Night Elf Hunter
6835
Facts simply trump rage every time.


they aren't facts if they've been easily disputed.


Your opinion and mind are on entirely different tracks my friend.

Distortion is king here and attempts to undermine ACTUAL discussion about facts is in rare form in most of the discussion in this thread. Too many people are not interested in the truth of what someone is trying to say when it is so much more fun to twist words to fit what they want it to mean.

I won't go into the mean attitudes of many of those who rail just for the kick of railing at the devs and blues then have the unmitigated gall to whine when they respond that people are twisting words to mean something they are not. Maybe I was wrong...maybe this actually IS REAL LIFE for some here rather than just a game.

Who knew.
Edited by Kyraz on 4/16/2012 11:17 AM PDT
85 Troll Druid
2945
04/16/2012 10:58 AMPosted by Kyraz
Anyone who was around for the early years may remember the kind of chat interacting with the blues that everyone enjoyed. This is no longer possible with the rage and anger crowd who inhabit the game and forums these days. I am amazed that any of the blues still chat with us at all and I certainly do not blame them for feeling the need to defend themselves against the distortions and accustations that they have to deal with here all the time.


Yes, this community is terrible (As are all gaming communities when they get popular) and at times their ignorant rages are pretty fail (Complaining over game mechanic issues and such with little foresight). However this thread is about a legitimate concern and the way the blue approached it just knocked the faith out of several high quality lore posters. This isn't the result of some ignorant "Class is overpowered, hur why can't forsaken be paladins hur" attack on a blue, this was the embodiment of Skytotem's discontented. a very pronounced and highly esteemed Poster on the story board expressing his growing discontent with lore in Cataclysm.

If you knew him you'd know his behavior is FAR different than it was when he was normally posting. Never before have I seen him flip out and post with such cynicism, truly showing his limit to just how bad the lore progression is getting. Being mainly a poster from the lore boards, Me, Ferlion and other esteemed lore posters have little to due with this incompetent "Bandwagon business" some posters on this thread keep labeling us. I understand that on a board as chaotic and frustrating as General people likley attack the blues for the sake of attacking them. This isn't the case, we have a legitimate reason to be upset over Zephs post as his condesendence towards Skytotem as well as his un-supportive claims were a legitimate sign that blizzard is content with their lore progression and will pretend certain plotholes among other facts don't exist to achieve this goal.
04/16/2012 10:58 AMPosted by Kyraz
Too many posters want subservience from their blues and "yes" men who will promise all 5,000 different views on how to make this game better to be implemented at the same time. They do not even "get" why this is not just unreasonable, but unfair.


This has nothing to do with desiring a submissive blue, Lore lovers are growing upset with blizzard "Rule of Cool" and "Day Dream Writing" approach to lore, The Story Forum lost it's blue, the place feels like a segregation board and any lore posts here are effectively derailed by the ignorance of those who have little understanding of it.

This blue made unsupportive claims and passed them off as truth, it's a sign metzen has a completely difference perception of lore than what currently exist and it's debatable if he even chooses to remember lore elements he's ignoring, among his self projection on thrall.. a character that never "Asked" for this to happen.

The blue messed up, his statement was unsupportive, this is why people are upset.. it has nothing to do with the fact that he's blue, it's not like a community manager has the capability to budge the Cdevs an inch.

We are playing a game based on someone elses creative ideas and stories. Everyone has the opportunity to play through these creative stories if they subscribe to play this game.
If I was so miserable, I would choose another story in another game to spend my money on rather than let my bitterness boil over as though the current storyline was ruining my entire life.


Lore fans go berserk every time a franchise gets obliterated by a bad change, This is why H.P Lovecraft fans hate Cthulu Mythos, why people deny Highlander 2's existence. At the moment there aren't many MMO's out with the amount of lore as warcraft, however as plotlines go we might as well flock to them. Rather than give up though you reason with the author. If an author designs a story with the intent that people will "become a part of the story" he must heed the cry's of his fans. The current story isn't doing that.. it's the equivalent to mary sue writing or self indulgence.. feeling as if to glorify metzen himself.

04/16/2012 10:58 AMPosted by Kyraz
Ideas and constructive discussions are a great way to let the writers know what you want, or like, but the rage and anger on these forums push far beyond that all the time. I am amazed the writers have any motivation to create good stories at all when all they get here is beat up, raged at and demeaned at every turn.


Yeah what writers? You are aware panderia's background lore will be Chinese mythology interpreted into WoW right? Cataclysm was about 80% thrall Glorification, 19% pop culture reference and 1% faction lore left in plotholes.

04/16/2012 10:58 AMPosted by Kyraz
Do you also expect writers of books to change their stories when you do not like them to the point where you rage on them as well?
If a Writer has a good book seies then pulls a very very bad decision you bet your mokier that fans are going to complain. Franchises have died that way.
85 Troll Druid
2945
Your opinion and mind are on entirely different tracks my friend.

Distortion is king here and attempts to undermine ACTUAL discussion about facts is in rare form in most of the discussion in this thread. Too many people are not interested in the truth of what someone is trying to say when it is so much more fun to twist words to fit what they want it to mean.

I won't go into the mean attitudes of many of those who rail just for the kick of railing at the devs and blues then have the unmitigated gall to whine when they respond that people are twisting words to mean something they are not. Maybe I was wrong...maybe this actually IS REAL LIFE for some here rather than just a game.

Who knew.


What is it with Shills and the constant need to bring up "it's not real life, why you mad bro"?

It's a terrible fallback and derailment to cover the fact that a blue was wrong. Even if Metzen was here claiming that the other races "Still matter" he will have jack evidence to prove it, and the lore will diverge into what is Cannon (The way metzen see's it) and what we see ingame (Not canon because Metzen denies it).

04/16/2012 11:12 AMPosted by Kyraz
I won't go into the mean attitudes of many of those who rail just for the kick of railing at the devs and blues then have the unmitigated gall to whine when they respond that people are twisting words to mean something they are not. Maybe I was wrong...maybe this actually IS REAL LIFE for some here rather than just a game.


Again, We are not General "Bandwagon hate" slime, we are angry lore posters from the superior board "Story Forum"
Edited by Onimontu on 4/16/2012 11:44 AM PDT
90 Night Elf Hunter
6835
Your opinion and mind are on entirely different tracks my friend.

Distortion is king here and attempts to undermine ACTUAL discussion about facts is in rare form in most of the discussion in this thread. Too many people are not interested in the truth of what someone is trying to say when it is so much more fun to twist words to fit what they want it to mean.

I won't go into the mean attitudes of many of those who rail just for the kick of railing at the devs and blues then have the unmitigated gall to whine when they respond that people are twisting words to mean something they are not. Maybe I was wrong...maybe this actually IS REAL LIFE for some here rather than just a game.

Who knew.


What is it with Shills and the constant need to bring up "it's not real life, why you mad bro"?

It's a terrible fallback and derailment to cover the fact that a blue was wrong. Even if Metzen was here claiming that the other races "Still matter" he will have jack evidence to prove it, and the lore will diverge into what is Cannon (The way metzen see's it) and what we see ingame (Not canon because Metzen denies it).
------------------------------------
Response:
The fact that you even have to ask this question in light of the rage and "less than honest" rendering of some of the facts in this thread should clearly explain why I come back to the entertainment vs real life issue.

Then you actually ask ME if I am mad? Seriously?

What I am is.. growing less and less enamoured with the ragers and posters who use such demeaning methods of expressing their "discontent" with the direction of stories and darn near every other thing that can be complained about on these forums. Many of the "over the top" complainers either have serious need of attitude adjustments, or are taking a game into emotional territory that rivals those of serious real life issues. Neither of these is a good thing.

Constructive criticism should be expected.....nastiness and hormone driven rage should not.
We see far too much of the latter on these forums and it takes a toll on a lot of us who actually think there is a place for constructive, but not nasty discussion and debate here.

I guess you and I will have to continue to disagree.
----------------------

04/16/2012 11:12 AMPosted by Kyraz
I won't go into the mean attitudes of many of those who rail just for the kick of railing at the devs and blues then have the unmitigated gall to whine when they respond that people are twisting words to mean something they are not. Maybe I was wrong...maybe this actually IS REAL LIFE for some here rather than just a game.


Again, We are not General "Bandwagon hate" slime, we are angry lore posters from the superior board "Story Forum"


----------------------
Response:
I am TRYING to understand where you are coming from, but when the level of anger is ratcheted up as it gets here, you automatically tune me out and move me a little farther from being able to sympathize with your point of view.

Too much of the discussion that takes place here just starts to look like bullies who have no other things to do other than rip and tear up the creators of your lore, demand silence from the blues, if they disagree, and yet still want an atmosphere of blissful creativity to exist among the devs and writers of this game.

You do not seem to realize that you are alienating some who could be supportive and poisoning the well for those you are wanting to creatively see things from your perspective and are in a position to maybe give input from your perspective.

This is a case of agression and passive agression being totally counter-productive to what you state you are wanting. It's kind of like holding a gun to the writers head and demanding that he write it the way YOU want it (Keeping in mind that there is not ONE YOU, but many who would have the story go in different directions).

I have always had an appreciation of the rpers and lore people in this game. The nasty turn of some of these threads does not, however, garner support from those who do not like the nasty direction that some of these "discussions" are going in and serve to potentially do more harm than good for your cause.

But...rage is "in" now, isn't it?
1 Blood Elf Mage
0
It was folly to even start arguing against them in the first place.

Rage is indeed "in" and is present strictly on the side of this weird gang of dev bashers because it's the only thing they have left when their totally nonsensical lies and slander are waved away simply by quoting the very interview they suddenly went on a crusade against.

However, the unfortunate part is that it isn't just this particular crusade but a general attitude of "the devs are morons, we know everything better" that makes things so cynical and disgusting.

I myself can't stand Thrall, for instance, and I let that be known when the topic comes up. I have plenty of other things I dislike about lore progression such as blood elves being reassociated with the Light and so forth. Yet those are all just opinions that have their place and time to discuss. At the end of the day, I wouldn't be playing and reading Warcraft if I didn't enjoy the overall fantasy world and product it provides.

Why anyone bothers to go on these hate campaigns is beyond me. I only started speaking out majorly against this whole movement when the slander against that particular interview came up because the nonsense had crossed a line. Yet there doesn't appear to be any point in trying to oppose it. Might as well let the rage run its course.
85 Troll Druid
2945
04/16/2012 12:45 PMPosted by Kyraz
I am TRYING to understand where you are coming from, but when the level of anger is ratcheted up as it gets here, you automatically tune me out and move me a little farther from being able to sympathize with your point of view.


Go back and analyze the thread, a good amount of the anger in this thread occurs after zarphs last post. The thread started out with some rather justified criticism of zarph, I mean after literally getting outclassed in his own statement. Then the Shills started popping in the the thread became a flame accusation.

about 1/3 of the rage was generated by Zarphs response, the other amount was generated by number of shills who defended his statement and kept the thread going for atleast 6 other pages. It's slowed down because people are ignoring the shills, I mean you are aware the argument went to the lore posters.. not the blue right? so keep arguing as if he's correct and of course you're going to be ignored.
04/16/2012 12:45 PMPosted by Kyraz
Too much of the discussion that takes place here just starts to look like bullies who have no other things to do other than rip and tear up the creators of your lore, demand silence from the blues, if they disagree, and yet still want an atmosphere of blissful creativity to exist among the devs and writers of this game.


Some of those attacking Zarph are doing so because of "Bandwagoning" but large amount was due to shills being shills. Lore hasn't been much of a complaint in the past, most of the "Bullying" that has ever been done to Blues were ignorant bouts of game mechanic QQ. People here are Criticizing blizzards approach on lore, Criticism is justified, Criticism is healthy, Criticism is how bad authors become good authors. Blizz is ignoring their Criticism and continuing a path of self indulgence therefore the lore fans are deeply upset, many are leaving.

We don't want the blues to remain silence, we just don't think this blue made a smart decision by claiming something he couldn't support. We also don't appreciate when their only responses are non-constructive, derailment material.

and yes, we do want a blissful existence of creativity for the devs. Because quite frankly one doesn't exist. The proof is in Cataclysm.
04/16/2012 12:45 PMPosted by Kyraz
You do not seem to realize that you are alienating some who could be supportive and poisoning the well for those you are wanting to creatively see things from your perspective and are in a position to maybe give input from your perspective.


Yeah, No.. We've been waiting far too long for that kind of response, and when we finally obtained a window it was taken from us. The current writers just aren't the same as they were back then. Let them see us as harsh critics, they failed to heed our pleads of warning for years. You have too much faith in their creativity, their work yields their skill and by now it's all gone to the spoils of pop culture. Our words didn't bend them when we were nice, what makes you think we'll care when they see us as rude?
04/16/2012 12:45 PMPosted by Kyraz
This is a case of agression and passive agression being totally counter-productive to what you state you are wanting. It's kind of like holding a gun to the writers head and demanding that he write it the way YOU want it (Keeping in mind that there is not ONE YOU, but many who would have the story go in different directions).


This is another typical shill argument.

People have different ideas and such for what they want in the game but they aren't raging because their specific desires aren't met. That's where you're wrong. We have a mutual agreement with one another.. the lore yield has been piss poor as of late. This isn't some struggle for inserting our individual idea's, It's a mass rejection of their terrible idea's forced upon a once enjoyable story. Everything Skytotem said he was tired about is one thing true lore fans agree with.
04/16/2012 12:45 PMPosted by Kyraz
I have always had an appreciation of the rpers and lore people in this game. The nasty turn of some of these threads does not, however, garner support from those who do not like the nasty direction that some of these "discussions" are going in and serve to potentially do more harm than good for your cause.


If you don't want people to rage into pages...be less of a shill
85 Troll Druid
2945
It was folly to even start arguing against them in the first place.

Rage is indeed "in" and is present strictly on the side of this weird gang of dev bashers because it's the only thing they have left when their totally nonsensical lies and slander are waved away simply by quoting the very interview they suddenly went on a crusade against.

However, the unfortunate part is that it isn't just this particular crusade but a general attitude of "the devs are morons, we know everything better" that makes things so cynical and disgusting.


Oh you~

After being defeated about six or seven times on both Story Boards and here by just about every top tier poster, you're still blindly defending the Blue Gods. You continue to call facts lies and slander and perceive us as an ignorant evil demons desecrating the sanctum of a bunch of Fantasy nerds and metal head you believe are infallible gods. In this particular case, Yes we do in fact know more then some Mods, Heck even redshirt guy knew more than the devs. The cats out of the bag.

myself can't stand Thrall, for instance, and I let that be known when the topic comes up. I have plenty of other things I dislike about lore progression such as blood elves being reassociated with the Light and so forth. Yet those are all just opinions that have their place and time to discuss. At the end of the day, I wouldn't be playing and reading Warcraft if I didn't enjoy the overall fantasy world and product it provides.

Why anyone bothers to go on these hate campaigns is beyond me. I only started speaking out majorly against this whole movement when the slander against that particular interview came up because the nonsense had crossed a line. Yet there doesn't appear to be any point in trying to oppose it. Might as well let the rage run its course.


How much are they paying you?
85 Troll Druid
2945
I love how you basically just proved Kyraz right and you don't even know it. Also is shill the new fanboy?


Oh do explain?

Yes, and No. A Shill is a term for someone hired by a company to pretend to be a customer enjoying(or defending) a product (People in infomercials). Some of these "Fanbios" claims are so outrageous and so numerous in these threads it's almost as if blizzard themselves hired a bunch of disinfo agents to spread word of how "Nothing is wrong with this game", not that the chances of this are likely. It seems this way due to some posters outright ignoring when they've been utterly defeated, like a Shill would if a product was seriously malfunctioning in front of them.
Edited by Onimontu on 4/16/2012 2:16 PM PDT
85 Night Elf Rogue
9220
04/12/2012 05:12 PMPosted by Vilkas
I guess this explains why Worgen Lore ended after the Gilneas starting zone. :l
85 Night Elf Rogue
9220
04/16/2012 05:19 AMPosted by Drmidnight
Night elfs in my opion are being shunned and i dont like it. IDK i just really love the night elfs and wish they would be a little more acknowleged because they are very Ver important lore wise.


I agree, back on war3 nelfs were strong and relevant to the future of kalimdor, now we're just suporting actors for the horde and wussies who don't fight back. Even Malfurion got his balls ripped off for not intervening on the destruction the horde has spread over the forests of kalimdor.
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