The Dragonmaw Clan!?!

85 Orc Hunter
4155
I am thinking of RPing a Dragonmaw Orc but there information is vague. Were there Shamans riding on Alextraszas children to fight for the Horde? Where did the Dragonmaw originate on Draenor? Were there Dragonmaw orcs in Orgrimmar within the past 10 years in-game time? I need as much information as anyone can get me that isn't already known on wowpedia, and wowwiki! Please!
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90 Troll Hunter
13170
04/14/2012 12:19 AMPosted by Kolgrath
Were there Shamans riding on Alextraszas children to fight for the Horde?

No, they ride Black Drakes now.



04/14/2012 12:19 AMPosted by Kolgrath
Where did the Dragonmaw originate on Draenor?

I'm not sure, but there is a town of Dragonmaw Fel Orcs in Shadowmoon Valley.



04/14/2012 12:19 AMPosted by Kolgrath
Were there Dragonmaw orcs in Orgrimmar within the past 10 years in-game time?

Presumably, no. There is only one Dragonmaw Orc in Orgrimmar, and he was added in Cataclysm.
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90 Human Mage
15230
By the time the Dragonmaw got around to riding on red dragons, Zuluhed was the only Shaman (not just of their clan, but in the entire Horde), and given that he was more concerned with keeping his own hide safe, it's pretty unlikely he would've rode into battle. Plenty of regular warriors did, though. Nowadays, they've taken to the Netherwing, or, more recently, the Blacks.

No one knows where, exactly, the Dragonmaw originated from, though their fortress in Shadowmoon Valley is as good a guess as any. Or, alternatively, their homeland was on one of the chunks of Outland that was destroyed when Ner'zhul opened up a ton of portals.

There don't appear to have been many, if any, Dragonmaws in the Horde prior to Cataclysm. The Dragonmaw were mainly isolated to the Wetlands, and were treated as enemies of the Horde (at least, to the point where killing them was part of Warrior and Warlock class quests).
Edited by Marriama on 4/14/2012 12:28 AM PDT
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04/14/2012 12:19 AMPosted by Kolgrath
Were there Shamans riding on Alextraszas children to fight for the Horde?


No. Shamanism was not in practice when the Dragonmaw seized the Red Dragon flight for their use.

Though one who was a dragon rider could have become a shaman since then.

04/14/2012 12:19 AMPosted by Kolgrath
Where did the Dragonmaw originate on Draenor?


I think the Dragonmaw may have originated in Azeroth. Especially considering there were no dragons on Draenor prior to the opening of the Dark Portal and that the name of their clan was based off of their mastery of Dragons.

Therefore I think the Clan may have formed between the First and Second wars and was based out of Grim Batol.

But that they weren't an original Draenor clan.

04/14/2012 12:19 AMPosted by Kolgrath
Were there Dragonmaw orcs in Orgrimmar within the past 10 years in-game time?


No. Remnants of the Dragonmaw Clan were centered in the Wetlands and presumably the Twilight Highlands in Azeroth and were not a part of Thrall's New Horde. They were still Old Horde throw backs.

All other existing Dragonmaw were those who had fled back to Draenor with their leader Zuluhud the Whacked and subjugated Netherdrakes in Shadowmoon Valley as Fel Orcs in the service of the Illidari.

However, it is not absolutely impossible for there to have been a Dragonmaw in Orgrimmar in the past ten years or so.

One would simply have to have been captured and interred along with so many other Orcs, and then freed by Thrall from bondage to follow him across the sea to establish Orgrimmar.

The Orcs of Orgrimmar are made up of individuals orphaned from their respective Clans, as the Internment Camps largely ended the classic clan structure of the Orcs. So you could easily roleplay as a Dragonmaw Orc who was captured and orphaned from his Clan who recently rejoined their ranks upon their reintroduction into the Horde.
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85 Troll Druid
2945
04/14/2012 12:50 AMPosted by Brukk
But that they weren't an original Draenor clan.


It was either cycle of hatred or some other orc book that claimed the dragonmaw were around before the legion first contact. This seems like a bad idea and perhaps blizz will retconn the name origin a bit. However there are theories on how they got their name, Some suggest that there was a creature called a "Dragon" on dreanor or at least something that would be accurately translated as such in Common, Perhaps a large cousin of the Warp stalkers or a mythical creature? It's one those bad lore decisions blizzard made(Or made by accepting the authors idea) that's a typical coincidence chain, Orcs named dragonmaw enslave dragons yet their name came first heavily implying the later was designed without thought. It's like the blackrock orcs already having the name blackrock and then flipping out when they discover a mountain called as such, even though there's no evidence of a black mountain on Draenor.
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04/14/2012 07:59 AMPosted by Onimontu
But that they weren't an original Draenor clan.


It was either cycle of hatred or some other orc book that claimed the dragonmaw were around before the legion first contact. This seems like a bad idea and perhaps blizz will retconn the name origin a bit. However there are theories on how they got their name, Some suggest that there was a creature called a "Dragon" on dreanor or at least something that would be accurately translated as such in Common, Perhaps a large cousin of the Warp stalkers or a mythical creature? It's one those bad lore decisions blizzard made(Or made by accepting the authors idea) that's a typical coincidence chain, Orcs named dragonmaw enslave dragons yet their name came first heavily implying the later was designed without thought. It's like the blackrock orcs already having the name blackrock and then flipping out when they discover a mountain called as such, even though there's no evidence of a black mountain on Draenor.

There were Dragonmaw in Rise of the Horde on Draenor.
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85 Troll Druid
2945
04/15/2012 01:47 PMPosted by Cártian
There were Dragonmaw in Rise of the Horde on Draenor.


Ok yeah that's the book I was thinking of.
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
0
Originally Draeneor was more parallel and comparable to Azeroth in - there were even Draenic Humans the first time around (Garona's original parentage, for instance).

Yet, even today, there seems to be a lot of fauna crossing between worlds, and while the raptors, chimeras, and other similar lifeforms are radically different than those of Azeroth, there may have at one time been a Draenic Dragon of some sort that the Dragonmaw were based on - it could merely have been rendered extinct in the planet's destruction, or even in ages past.
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90 Orc Warrior
0
That horrible book, Tides of Darkness, includes the backstory for the Dragonmaw surrounding their use of red dragons and their use of the Dragon Soul, but Day of the Dragon, which I have not read, I believe concerns their downfall and collapse at the hands of Alexstrasza and Rhonin.

I think everything else concerning their current lore is pretty much concentrated in Twilight Highlands.

That chain actually begins with a single Dragonmaw orc in Orgrimmar, but I think it's implied that there aren't really many Dragonmaw orcs hanging around Orgrimmar. The chain in Twilight Highlands also makes it clear that the Dragonmaw rejected the Horde, and found them unattractive, and also, the leadership of the Dragonmaw at the time of their meeting the Horde in Cataclysm is actually corrupted fel orcs from Draenor.

I can't recommend actually doing the quest chain in Twilight Highlands enough, start to finish, as it revolves almost entirely around the Dragonmaw.

There is also Dragonmaw in Burning Crusade, situated around Shadowmoon Valley and a little floating island of rock to the south is where they operate. They are involved in the Netherdrake quest chain.
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04/15/2012 10:59 PMPosted by Dryker
Originally Draeneor was more parallel and comparable to Azeroth in - there were even Draenic Humans the first time around (Garona's original parentage, for instance).

she was retconned to Half-Orc Half-Draenei, acutally.

04/15/2012 10:59 PMPosted by Dryker
Yet, even today, there seems to be a lot of fauna crossing between worlds, and while the raptors, chimeras, and other similar lifeforms are radically different than those of Azeroth, there may have at one time been a Draenic Dragon of some sort that the Dragonmaw were based on - it could merely have been rendered extinct in the planet's destruction, or even in ages past.

the fauna I believe was explained as plants brought through (or seeds being blown through) the Dark Portal. I am willing to believe they had a similar-to-a-dragon creature though, seeing as Pandaria has cloud serpents.
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That horrible book, Tides of Darkness, includes the backstory for the Dragonmaw surrounding their use of red dragons and their use of the Dragon Soul, but Day of the Dragon, which I have not read, I believe concerns their downfall and collapse at the hands of Alexstrasza and Rhonin.

I think everything else concerning their current lore is pretty much concentrated in Twilight Highlands.

That chain actually begins with a single Dragonmaw orc in Orgrimmar, but I think it's implied that there aren't really many Dragonmaw orcs hanging around Orgrimmar. The chain in Twilight Highlands also makes it clear that the Dragonmaw rejected the Horde, and found them unattractive, and also, the leadership of the Dragonmaw at the time of their meeting the Horde in Cataclysm is actually corrupted fel orcs from Draenor.

I can't recommend actually doing the quest chain in Twilight Highlands enough, start to finish, as it revolves almost entirely around the Dragonmaw.

There is also Dragonmaw in Burning Crusade, situated around Shadowmoon Valley and a little floating island of rock to the south is where they operate. They are involved in the Netherdrake quest chain.

The quest chain where there is only a few (or one) Dragonmaw in Orgrimmar is set before they officially join the Horde again. That's what the quest chain does.
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90 Human Paladin
6320
No. Remnants of the Dragonmaw Clan were centered in the Wetlands and presumably the Twilight Highlands in Azeroth and were not a part of Thrall's New Horde. They were still Old Horde throw backs.

All other existing Dragonmaw were those who had fled back to Draenor with their leader Zuluhud the Whacked and subjugated Netherdrakes in Shadowmoon Valley as Fel Orcs in the service of the Illidari.

However, it is not absolutely impossible for there to have been a Dragonmaw in Orgrimmar in the past ten years or so.

One would simply have to have been captured and interred along with so many other Orcs, and then freed by Thrall from bondage to follow him across the sea to establish Orgrimmar.

The Orcs of Orgrimmar are made up of individuals orphaned from their respective Clans, as the Internment Camps largely ended the classic clan structure of the Orcs. So you could easily roleplay as a Dragonmaw Orc who was captured and orphaned from his Clan who recently rejoined their ranks upon their reintroduction into the Horde.


Pretty much this. There could have been a handful of Dragonmaws captured with other orcs, and one of those who was freed with the others might very well have taken up shamanism in admiration of Thrall.

The original draenei aren't very well described but were humanlike. If we're going with the original storyline, Garona was half-orc half-human. According to the original story, there were years between the portal first opening and the fall of Azeroth.
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No. Remnants of the Dragonmaw Clan were centered in the Wetlands and presumably the Twilight Highlands in Azeroth and were not a part of Thrall's New Horde. They were still Old Horde throw backs.

All other existing Dragonmaw were those who had fled back to Draenor with their leader Zuluhud the Whacked and subjugated Netherdrakes in Shadowmoon Valley as Fel Orcs in the service of the Illidari.

However, it is not absolutely impossible for there to have been a Dragonmaw in Orgrimmar in the past ten years or so.

One would simply have to have been captured and interred along with so many other Orcs, and then freed by Thrall from bondage to follow him across the sea to establish Orgrimmar.

The Orcs of Orgrimmar are made up of individuals orphaned from their respective Clans, as the Internment Camps largely ended the classic clan structure of the Orcs. So you could easily roleplay as a Dragonmaw Orc who was captured and orphaned from his Clan who recently rejoined their ranks upon their reintroduction into the Horde.


Pretty much this. There could have been a handful of Dragonmaws captured with other orcs, and one of those who was freed with the others might very well have taken up shamanism in admiration of Thrall.

The original draenei aren't very well described but were humanlike. If we're going with the original storyline, Garona was half-orc half-human. According to the original story, there were years between the portal first opening and the fall of Azeroth.

I realize thats what the original lore was, but they've changed it. Gul'dan had a half Draenei child who he altered with demonic magic to look half human. They did this to explain why she doesnt look half Draenei.
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90 Human Paladin
6320
Yes, but the discussion of the original storyline was brought up. I was merely making the point that the original draenei were barely described other than being humanlike, and that Garona was originally originally half-human half-orc.
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
0

she was retconned to Half-Orc Half-Draenei, acutally.


I'm not unaware of that, that's what I meant when I said "originally" - the original design and incarnation rather than the inside-out, retcontastic, current incarnation.


the fauna I believe was explained as plants brought through (or seeds being blown through) the Dark Portal. I am willing to believe they had a similar-to-a-dragon creature though, seeing as Pandaria has cloud serpents.


Maybe you could make the argument that Stranglethorn Raptors, Windserpents, scorpions, spiders, and any other creature appearing in both the Eastern Kingdoms and Outland could have wandered through the Dark Portal at... some point between when the Horde didn't occupy the site, the Alliance didn't occupy the site, and Demons didn't occupy the site, and in enough fertile numbers as to establish populations in Outland, where they migrated all over the planet/continent/whatever is left... it's an incredibly long shot, but... maybe?

However, when you get to Kalimdor specific creatures like the Chimera... now you're talking Stork-Carrying-Coconuts type wackiness that's just...

Personally, it's just easier to think that the natural workings of life in WarCraft are apt to express itself in similar ways across multiple worlds than try to jimmy some sort of freaky interplanetary migration pattern into the mix.
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85 Troll Druid
2945
04/17/2012 09:08 AMPosted by Dryker
I'm not unaware of that, that's what I meant when I said "originally" - the original design and incarnation rather than the inside-out, retcontastic, current incarnation.
It was also a part of the entire Draenie Retconn. Recall that Akama was originally a mutant of one of these Draenor "humans", before the Draenei were retconned into being uncorrupted Eredar.

As for the similar species.... Well recall blizzards love of model recycling as the basses to why... but in a lore sense a lot of these creatures don't actually appear to be related at all accept for worg, scorpids, Wind-serpents, birds and basilisks. It's probably a case of emergent evolution. In reality if lets say we went through a number of earth like life bearing planets we'd eventually find a world with similar forms of life, because the systems our life use would end up appearing on worlds with similar levels of gravity and other environments.
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
0
It was also a part of the entire Draenie Retconn. Recall that Akama was originally a mutant of one of these Draenor "humans", before the Draenei were retconned into being uncorrupted Eredar.

As for the similar species.... Well recall blizzards love of model recycling as the basses to why... but in a lore sense a lot of these creatures don't actually appear to be related at all accept for worg, scorpids, Wind-serpents, birds and basilisks. It's probably a case of emergent evolution. In reality if lets say we went through a number of earth like life bearing planets we'd eventually find a world with similar forms of life, because the systems our life use would end up appearing on worlds with similar levels of gravity and other environments.


Well I knew the original ORIGINAL story of the Draenei were that they were, well other native inhabitants of the planet (which makes sense given the thing is frickin' named after them) but I've never seen them equated to the humans that were supposed to be native to the planet.

As to the Fauna thing... yeah, roughly that I'd say - similar environments would lead to similar biological patterns. It's less of a long shot than saying everything that's like things from Azeroth came from things from Azeroth.
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she was retconned to Half-Orc Half-Draenei, acutally.


I'm not unaware of that, that's what I meant when I said "originally" - the original design and incarnation rather than the inside-out, retcontastic, current incarnation.


the fauna I believe was explained as plants brought through (or seeds being blown through) the Dark Portal. I am willing to believe they had a similar-to-a-dragon creature though, seeing as Pandaria has cloud serpents.


Maybe you could make the argument that Stranglethorn Raptors, Windserpents, scorpions, spiders, and any other creature appearing in both the Eastern Kingdoms and Outland could have wandered through the Dark Portal at... some point between when the Horde didn't occupy the site, the Alliance didn't occupy the site, and Demons didn't occupy the site, and in enough fertile numbers as to establish populations in Outland, where they migrated all over the planet/continent/whatever is left... it's an incredibly long shot, but... maybe?

However, when you get to Kalimdor specific creatures like the Chimera... now you're talking Stork-Carrying-Coconuts type wackiness that's just...

Personally, it's just easier to think that the natural workings of life in WarCraft are apt to express itself in similar ways across multiple worlds than try to jimmy some sort of freaky interplanetary migration pattern into the mix.

I want to point out my argument actually made no sense because I derped and mixed up flora and fauna. As for similar creatures, they evolved in similar enviroments, so it is very possible they just followed similar evolutionary paths.

In the case of chimeras, I figured the Nelves brought them. Aren't they only in southern Blades Edge?
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85 Troll Druid
2945
04/17/2012 10:16 AMPosted by Dryker
Well I knew the original ORIGINAL story of the Draenei were that they were, well other native inhabitants of the planet (which makes sense given the thing is frickin' named after them) but I've never seen them equated to the humans that were supposed to be native to the planet.


If I recall correctly, before their mutation they where almost completely human looking. At least that's how they were described.
04/17/2012 10:39 AMPosted by Cártian
In the case of chimeras, I figured the Nelves brought them. Aren't they only in southern Blades Edge?


If we're talking about blade wing and blood letter chimeras.. Those things look completely unrelated despite sharing the same skeleton and name. They look like double headed Xenomorph dragons.
Edited by Onimontu on 4/17/2012 10:49 AM PDT
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Can we just take a moment and bask in how unabashedly horrid the Draenei retcon was?

And lament the fact that those abominations of lore still wander our world?
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