The Purge of Stratholme

90 Dwarf Paladin
14910
In the instance, pretty much everyone outside of Stratholme noticed that something was wrong with the grain. They were the ones that first alerted Arthas to the plagued grain. When you entered the city, some townsolk complained about illness and displayed symptons, while others did not. Given that, it may be that cultists running one bakery or another distributed plagued bread to a segment of the population given that the raw grain was noticeably spoiled.
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85 Draenei Priest
6735
They kept saying that Arthas didn't have enough men. Even with Uther and the knights there, there wouldn't have been enough to hold off a massive army of undead if everyone started turning, either through grain or Mal'Ganis.

Even with one major exit (say 3, including sewers or whatever) how do you expect the soldiers to surround the whole city? Sure, there is a main gate but do you think walls will stop people from trying to flee zombies, OR even stop zombies trying to get out and get some noms? Not likely.

I don't see how a quarantine would have worked either. Once people started turning, and then turning on others to feed, Arthas would have been fighting not unarmed civies but undead AND his own soldiers who were killed then turned.

Don't you think that would have gotten super messy super fast? I mean if Jaina could have teleported in a few thousand soldiers... OK. But never was that even suggested. She offered to go to Dalaran and do research. Umm... the grain had been eaten. Research might have taken days/weeks/months.

I've always said that Stratholme was a no-win situation. That Arthas and Lordaeron would have been doomed either way.
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90 Human Warlock
18165
This is totally hindsight but here's another option.

Evacuate Stratholm and save as many people as possible. Many will turn, butsome may not. Kill those that turn and send the survivors to Dalaron to be studied for a possible immunity or cure. Pieces of the slain undead and grain samples will also serve research purposes.
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90 Night Elf Druid
0
The problem with evacuating the people is the rate of shifting from living to undead. If Arthas wants to do an effective evacuation he needs to spread his forces around organizing the effort. That means that there would be a tiny group of soldiers for each large group of civilians. After all there would be at least 10 times as many civilians for every soldier if not more. Therefore it is likely that groups of civilians would shift and slaughter their guards. These would then move on to other groups causing a chain reaction. Before he could even react Arthas would have lost most likely around half his soldiers and the majority of the remainders would be spread out and not able to coordinate. Therefore he would have to flee with heavy losses and the city would be lost.

Arthas' only chance would be to keep his forces together and that would mean processing small amounts of the city at one time, the problem with this is then Mal'Ganas is free to convert other parts of the city without anyone stopping him.

There was no real way to save anyone, like others said, it was a "screwed if you do and screwed if you don't" situation.
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90 Night Elf Hunter
0
When I read "Arthas", the idea I got was that Jaina and Uther are opposed of the purge because they thought there was a way to cure these infected humans of the scourge. They were wrong though, and Arthas really had to kill all humans in Stratholme to save them from becoming an army of the undead.

But he however did use them as his army later but that's another story.
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When I read "Arthas", the idea I got was that Jaina and Uther are opposed of the purge because they thought there was a way to cure these infected humans of the scourge. They were wrong though, and Arthas really had to kill all humans in Stratholme to save them from becoming an army of the undead.

But he however did use them as his army later but that's another story.


I do think the book did present the situation better than the warcraft 3 game did, and a hell of alot better than the WoW version.

The WoW version/instance just makes me giggle when Arthas looks across the mote around strathholm, a town that has giant walls erected, virtually impossible to see the people of the town, or anything else for that matter... then goes into his dialogue from Warcraft 3. He then just ruthlessly slaughters some random grey lvl civilians and watch's the 5man crew do the work.

His dialogue makes much better sense in the context of Warcraft 3 though. I still think Jaina and Uther should of done something more than run off. Jaina especially, she had up to that point been right alongside Arthas has he went up against the scourge, she watched all manner of folks go all zomby right in front of her eyes.
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90 Undead Rogue
6890
04/11/2012 06:33 AMPosted by Taspar
Does anyone else think that killing off the citizens before becoming mindless undead was actually more humane? I feel like Arthas had the right idea here.


Arthas didn't attempt to save a SINGLE person in the entire city, he was only interested in killing everyone and waltzing off to chase demons. It's hard for me to believe that his heart was even in the right place I mean with literally stating "damn the men" and not insuring that "his people" received a proper burial, he didn't even bother informing Terneras.
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85 Troll Rogue
7940
It would have been if the humans were all infected.

Some were not infected, and should have been saved.
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85 Draenei Priest
6735
Those who were not infected would have been attacked by those who turned. Then they'd all turn on the soldiers, and soon Arthas and what men he had would have been overrun.

You can't just run from group to group grabbing people you "think" might be OK. Everyone ate bread. This thing turned people fast, AND Mal'Ganis was there speeding things along.

I'm a citizen of Stratholme. I feel ok. I want to get the hell out. I lie to my prince and tell him I didn't have any bread today. I pass through the main gate to the waiting arms of a group of soldiers... and promptly die. Then, I have soldier brains for lunch.

How do you decide who's OK? How do you decide who to save, quarantine, herd, etc? As fast as things were supposedly happening, with the amount of soldiers they had, it doesn't seem possible.
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90 Human Warlock
13730
The alliance(and by extension the silver hand) tends to focus on choosing the ethical choice and not the practical one. Even if the practical choice causes more harm down the road, making sure all your decisions produce the most immediate good is very important to the alliance. Trying to make every action do the most immediate good is the defining flaw of the alliance.
EX: internment camps, Swamp of sorrows, Killing the scarlet crusade/onslaught.

By making a logical choice that didn't do immediate good, Arthas violated the ethics of the alliance.
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85 Draenei Priest
6735
04/16/2012 07:09 PMPosted by Cortelas
By making a logical choice that didn't do immediate good, Arthas violated the ethics of the alliance.
He still came home to a hero's welcome...
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67 Draenei Paladin
300
Here's the thing some people don't seem to grasp. Sometimes, the logical thing to do is -not- the ethical thing to do. The way i see it with what knowledge was given, Arthas did the logical thing. I can't really say that doing what he did was an ethical decision, by my standards at the very least.

Think about it, while he did murder all of them what would've happened if he didn't? They may have turned into Undead then and there and caught those that Arthas had with him off-guard. From there? They would've likely rampaged as far as they could go before whatever army Lordaeron had was raised to stop them, assuming they could.

As to him becoming the Lich King, i'd be quicker to blame Uther and Jaina. Certainly murdering -all of those innocents- took a toll on him, but he would've remained sane if they had stayed with him. The Lich King may very well not have been created, and Azeroth could very well be a better place because of it.

Just possibilities, though. Who knows, Azeroth has a way of getting into more trouble. God knows how it manages it, but there's always -something-.

Edit --> Please, don't take that first line offensively. It was not intended to be offensive in any way, it's only a simple comment from my viewpoint.

Another edit --> To anyone who is confused by my opinion here, let me give another one. The world simply isn't black and white, there are many shades of grey as well. There is no innate right or wrong, only what society deems right or wrong and what the person themselves deems right or wrong. Say, in our society, murdering is -wrong-. Which it is, in our society. You follow your own definition and go on a murdering spree? You're punished, and rightly so. That's just how i see it, at least.

Please, remember. What i've said in this post? Only an opinion. Don't take it seriously, please.
Edited by Keronaur on 4/17/2012 3:36 PM PDT
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85 Draenei Priest
6735
Keronaur ~ I totally agree with you.
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04/13/2012 11:27 AMPosted by Anamaleth
Jaina and Uther just deserted him. If someone was about to become a murderer in your eyes, would you just walk off and let them do it?! Someone you loved no less...

He's the crown prince. They dont have the authority to make him stop. I believe he suspended Uther's rank for telling him he couldnt.
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85 Draenei Priest
6735
04/17/2012 05:27 PMPosted by Cártian
Jaina and Uther just deserted him. If someone was about to become a murderer in your eyes, would you just walk off and let them do it?! Someone you loved no less...

He's the crown prince. They dont have the authority to make him stop. I believe he suspended Uther's rank for telling him he couldnt.


He didn't have the authority to suspend the Knights. Only the king did, but at the time no one questioned it until Uther had a chat with Terenas and got it sorted out.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
14570
looking at it after the event you would think that it would be the best way. but in the heat of the moment and if you think about it from uthers view, he was basically killing innocents cizilians. the mass murder of an entire city especially with stratholmes magnitude was such a quick dicesion that they could think that only a evil man could do it.

but looking at it from after, what other choice did they have? no matter what happened they would have all died.
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85 Troll Rogue
7940
looking at it after the event you would think that it would be the best way. but in the heat of the moment and if you think about it from uthers view, he was basically killing innocents cizilians. the mass murder of an entire city especially with stratholmes magnitude was such a quick dicesion that they could think that only a evil man could do it.

but looking at it from after, what other choice did they have? no matter what happened they would have all died.


The city may have been damned from the start, It was a logical thing to do but,

Your good if you purge a city instead of letting them turn undead.

you'r a hero if you are able to save some people from death in a city that was damned
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90 Tauren Druid
7190
04/11/2012 08:23 AMPosted by Malanis
The Lich King is the result of hippies being too weak to show loyalty to a friend in a serious situation. If your best friend/student/love interest starts massacring civilians, you help, not run away crying like he's some stranger who you don't even know or trust.


People who are saying stuff like this keep forgetting that Arthas by his own authority as the successor to the crown demanded that those with the will to follow him take up arms, while those who did not to get out of his sight.

You can try to justify it all you want, but if he went as far as to pull the "I'm the crown prince" stunt it's over.
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85 Draenei Priest
6735
04/18/2012 12:42 AMPosted by Seiryu
You can try to justify it all you want, but if he went as far as to pull the "I'm the crown prince" stunt it's over.


If this were an epic story, written by Martin or Goodkind or whoever, we'd get a better picture. Golden did a crap job of delving into Arthas' mind when he was still "good". She did a bit better, I think, when he was a death knight.

You have to remember that Arthas was at the brink. His kingdom was being besieged by this heinous evil. He was exhausted, doubting himself and everything. He was young, headstrong, brash, and probably FREAKED out. And he knows that HE is in charge. HE is responsible for what happens that day. And the people he loved turned away without listening, without offering viable options. Can you imagine how lonely you would be at that moment? How devastated? Sure, he's a guy, but you can't tell me that he wasn't crushed. He never got over their "betrayal".

So I take what he said with a grain of salt. I'm the crown prince, I order you to bla bla bla... We all say stupid things in the heat of the moment, when angry, upset, etc. It was desperation, pure and simple.
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