Theramore Must Not Be Destroyed (Part 2)

90 Human Warrior
10715
i agree the dev does seam to favor horde over alliance. but think about it. al the loosing on the alliance side has to be leading up to something good, a epic fight where alliance kicks horde !@# into submission and maby the war ends before the invasion of org. maby the alliance defeats the hordes forces and they surrender enraging garrosh who locks himself up in org with his most loyal officers and followers. it is there that the alliance and the horde both throw aside there differences and put a end to the warmonger garrosh hellscream.
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90 Human Warrior
10715
becuase after this huge war between the horde and alliance there is nothing els to do but to tie up loose ends. remember sunwell we never killed kiljadean we just pushed him back to the twisting nether. and malganas retreated from onslaught harbor after his defeat. the scourge is in decay and under the control of one of the alliances greatest heros.

im seeing forshadowing for a final return of the burning legion and the horde and alliance make peace at the end of mist of pandaria just in time for some lv 95 sargares kiljeaden and other new demonic action.
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87 Draenei Priest
8770
04/16/2012 06:24 PMPosted by Zarhym
The average player has been more concerned about a lack of content at level 85


praying that this will be fixed in MoP, atleast make the end raid boss;s harder than madness on normal and add the old 10-12 raid boss's
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90 Human Death Knight
9330
After years of Alliance players complaining the next Expac after MoP will be "Fall of the Horde"... all existing Horde Characters will be turned into their Alliance counterparts, the Horde will be removed entirely from the game, Alliance players will continue to complain because they will have to fight themselves.

EDIT: BTW when my kids complain, I don't give them what they want I tell them that I am the adult and it is my decision whether they get it or not.

In this case Blizz is the adult and we the playerbase are the children, if you want a game that you can mould to your liking, make your own.


But the difference in adult and children and Blizzard and playerbase is that we can punish Blizzard by not playing until they do something. Blizzard cant smack us on the !@# and say "deal with it" we can do that to Blizzard though.
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100 Night Elf Druid
6935
MORE FOCUS ON PvP PLZ
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87 Human Rogue
6245
Everything that happens in game is Apart of Warcraft lore. The horde gets a lot of crap to them too like Garrosh for one. Horde falling apart because of that choice that Thrall left them. Cairne died. The entire horde is in turmoil and not to mention orcs basically are killing themselves because of their win or die deal. oh big deal alliance loses some towns etc.... Horde has a risk of falling completely apart. Especially with Garrosh going insane with power and the horde completely going against him. Horde has just as many things wrong with them as alliance does. Only horde is a little bit more pissed.
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85 Blood Elf Mage
1610
I play as horde mostly, but occasionally play Alliance, and I must admit I really wish they weren't planning on destroying Theramore, I really do like that place >< lol
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85 Worgen Druid
6665
Lets try to make this simple for people who have issues with reading comprehension.

There is a war.
This war is being fought by two factions
For purposes of simplicity we will refer to these two factions as "side A" and "side B"

Who is winning the war = not important
An interesting story for side A that shows why and how they are winning or losing = important
An interesting story for side B that shows why and how they are winning or losing = important
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72 Blood Elf Rogue
965
I personally would like to bring attention to an apparently overlooked, and possibly blatantly so, point from the lore. Never seen anyone, a blue poster either, comment on this one:

If you follow the officially sanctioned Blizzard lore, every major Warcraft conflict, since the troll wars, was a direct result, line by line, of Humans being taught magic by the high elves (Nation of Arathor). The High Elves and the Humans, messing around with 'sparklies', lured Sargeras to Azeroth in the first place. the Dwarves and their digging near Old God prisons woke up those nasty beings, and the gnomes irradiated themselves, moved into IF, and basically stirred up local crap which spiraled outward to encompass larger terrors.

Then we have Arthas Menethil himself, who went bat-crap insane and turned into you-know-who based on what? ARROGANCE.

Therefore all of this 'world of conflict' started with the Elves, WAAAAAY back, messing with crap they shouldn't have. Then their banished cousins spread the cancer to Humanity, and the dwarves and gnomes dug too deep and did more of the same.

The Worgen are a direct result of a Night Elf and her arrogance, and a Human Mage, playing god in a castle someplace.

The orcs? They were corrupted by the Legion, as a direct tactic to gain REVENGE on who? The meddling rabbit heads!

My point, then, is that this story, the entire magnum opus of the Blizzard Braintrust, has been ignored from day one.

I agree with the Alliance players. Their story needs meat on its bones. The horde, for all her various nuances, has been explained quite a bit. I am a Horde player. I will ALWAYS be a horde player...But, I owe the ENTIRE existence of my faction to a few on the other side, who got too big for their breeches. I feel it is time we got the whole tale...

For Azeroth!

- mids
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85 Gnome Death Knight
4445
04/18/2012 11:59 PMPosted by Nulin
Everything that happens in game is Apart of Warcraft lore. The horde gets a lot of crap to them too like Garrosh for one. Horde falling apart because of that choice that Thrall left them. Cairne died. The entire horde is in turmoil and not to mention orcs basically are killing themselves because of their win or die deal. oh big deal alliance loses some towns etc.... Horde has a risk of falling completely apart. Especially with Garrosh going insane with power and the horde completely going against him. Horde has just as many things wrong with them as alliance does. Only horde is a little bit more pissed.


No, see, that is the problem. The Horde story is actually doing something. The Alliance doesn't have any story that you don't need to go out and buy some novels or reroll Horde to learn about.

Lets try to make this simple for people who have issues with reading comprehension.

There is a war.
This war is being fought by two factions
For purposes of simplicity we will refer to these two factions as "side A" and "side B"

Who is winning the war = not important
An interesting story for side A that shows why and how they are winning or losing = important
An interesting story for side B that shows why and how they are winning or losing = important


Quote for truth.
Edited by Mekkadeth on 4/19/2012 1:07 AM PDT
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85 Blood Elf Hunter
6575
More tasty alliance lore /signed.

I just don't want the all-out revenge these alliance are after. So you've had a crappy experience so far? Let's fix that pronto! Just don't try to give the Horde a majorly crappy experience in return.
I think the game and the faction dynamics should be made for NEW players. Not all you vets who have built up this incredible depth of bitterness and hate.

But that's my opinion.
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94 Blood Elf Rogue
14280
I understand the need to balance the number of zones and I support it, but that doesn't mean that the Alliance has to lose damn near every single battle that occurs...


Obviously the alliance is weak. Maybe you need some new leadership.
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85 Gnome Death Knight
4445
04/19/2012 01:33 AMPosted by Vyndaumas
I just don't want the all-out revenge these alliance are after. So you've had a crappy experience so far? Let's fix that pronto! Just don't try to give the Horde a majorly crappy experience in return.


I don't think you have to worry about that. Most Alliance don't feel the need to go that far; we just don't want our storylines to come off as an afterthought anymore.
Edited by Mekkadeth on 4/19/2012 1:53 AM PDT
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91 Tauren Shaman
14965
Who is Theramore? And why you care if he dies anyway?
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76 Human Warrior
8705
04/19/2012 01:57 AMPosted by Aghator
Who is Theramore? And why you care if he dies anyway?


Go to trade channel. Type WTB portal to Theramore ;)

There u go ;)
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57 Blood Elf Warlock
590
04/18/2012 09:51 PMPosted by Vivainne
99% of scientific progress is based on observation.


99% of percentages are clearly made up on the fly by forum posters.
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Lok'Tar Ogar!
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85 Night Elf Druid
3550
This is the FIRST time I have seen anyone from Blizzard categorically state that they actually understand the problem. Since that was all I was really hoping for now I really do have to wait to see MoP.

Even with his recent...snarkiness...I have had no trouble defending Zar, and apparently he gets to be the one to say this to us for his boldness. I say well done Zar, well done.
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90 Night Elf Druid
12810
You act as though I don't think there's any disconnect at all, or that all complaints from Alliance players about perceived story imbalances between factions are baseless.

These are fallacies which, as with this one below from you, I was initially biting my thumb at in my post you quoted.

The frustrating thing, though, is that you haven’t just received criticism, but constructive criticism as well. Plenty of people have offered copious amounts of suggestions since even before the release of Cataclysm, and you’ve ignored every single one.

You do everyone on the forums, yourself included, a disservice by making the leap in logic that, because we didn't act upon feedback submitted to us, we ignored it. Many of the suggestions you referenced in your post would've been pretty massive undertakings toward further redesigning the 1-60 experience in Cataclysm. From your point of view, and given how you feel about Alliance design, it's probably a pretty easy call. The decision should've been to make those changes to better flesh out the Alliance and, in particular, worgen story.

But we don't get to do this over, so we have to look at it from a pragmatic standpoint. Regardless of what we know today, it still would've been an incredible risk back then to delay the expansion, just to further redo the 1-60 experience to ensure the Alliance portion cannot be seen as anything other than equivalent (at least) to the Horde portion, in terms of quality. This is not to mention that, to a sadly large extent, the revamp of the 1-60 experience went pretty unnoticed to the average player. The average player has been more concerned about a lack of content at level 85 than what zone story lines ended more in favor of the Horde than vice versa.

And since we weren't going to change the expansion's story partway through purely based on the concern that players didn't feel Thrall was a neutral enough character, we went ahead with our plan.

Now enter Mists development. For months now we've been listening to the Alliance concerns on all types of matters, from lore, to faction pride, to populations, to behavior at BlizzCon, etc. And so many of them are legitimate. We've taken a lot of this to heart while developing the next expansion, while also building upon the larger story that's sure to span many more expansions and even new games (hopefully) down the road.

But then these valid concerns get whittled away and almost lose their meaning as they're put on this tit-for-tat list, where they're used as emotional leverage. And suddenly every little piece of information that comes out regarding future content gets ripped apart to determine exactly where our true motivations and biases lay. It actually increases the social divide between players, inflames the loudest people on both sides of the aisle, and prevents us from getting any reasonable word in edgewise without being cut down for our perceived ignorance in all matters relating to Alliance player wants/needs, if not our malicious attempt to outright make the Horde the cooler faction by story and design.

While both sides have done some pretty great and pretty terrible things in the stories past, there's a reason we don't make one the definitively evil or definitely good side (don't point to a few moments on a recent timeline to refute this point -- I'm talking big picture). Playing with friends aside, it's still a goal of ours to make sure that you're playing whatever faction and race you think is coolest, or which one you identify with or enjoy most. To think we're actively designing the game any other way is to get caught up in this debate so much so that you lose sight of what the game is all about.

I'm proud to be all gnome when it's time to crawl dungeons with my Alliance friends. I'm excited to represent goblins when it's time to collect bounties with my Horde friends. That said, my ultimate affinity is for my gnome and the Alliance, if not purely because that's how I ultimately jumped on the Warcraft train. :)

And I'm sure plenty of you out there would spit on both of those races. And -- since these words have never come back to bite anyone in the past -- I say bring 'em on.


ah poor zarhym, i've read your posts for awhile on the theremore topic and i really feel sorry for you, ultimately i think you are being trolled

there are people that log on every day just to complain (about a game... that they pay money to keep playing)

and there are many more that just log on and enjoy wherever this fine game takes us!

i play both alliance and horde and i cannot see why them throwing theremore into the mix as a reason to be angry, more a reason to log in and see what's going to happen!

honestly i view it as a game, i like the changes that show a new direction and initiative and i think that is why so many people are still coming back to play, so i have to agree...

bring em on! =)
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