MoP Protection Warrior Discussion

90 Troll Warrior
13875
Anyone seen the glyph of incite?

Hs following dev is a guaranteed crit.
Crit enrages us increasing our rage gen by 25%
More rage means more shield block.
I put forth this glyph will not be considered an option or flavorful but mandatory.
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90 Pandaren Warrior
15740
I put forth there will always be mandatory glyphs
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90 Troll Warrior
13875
04/15/2012 03:04 PMPosted by Ðemolition
I put forth there will always be mandatory glyphs


What are the other ones?
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85 Human Warrior
11430
04/15/2012 03:03 PMPosted by Therealgor
I put forth this glyph will not be considered an option or flavorful but mandatory.


I don't think spending 30 rage (half of a Shield Block) for 6 seconds of 25% more rage generation from autoattack (roughly 6 rage total) is going to be mandatory. Using Heroic Strike will still be a massive net rage loss even with this glyph. Part of the problem is that "Enrage" is ridiculously weak at the moment - it only impacts rage from auto-attacks, only lasts 6 seconds, and only changes this by 25%.

There probably always will be "mandatory" glyphs that are only replaced very situationally. Right now I'd say that Hold the Line and Heavy Repercussions are probably go-to glyphs in that regard.

Glyph of Victory Rush is likely to actually be mandatory for anyone who picks Impending Victory, since it's a flat out 50% buff to the effectiveness of that ability.
Edited by Ahti on 4/15/2012 3:38 PM PDT
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90 Pandaren Warrior
15740
04/15/2012 03:33 PMPosted by Ahti
I put forth this glyph will not be considered an option or flavorful but mandatory.


I don't think spending 30 rage (half of a Shield Block) for 6 seconds of 25% more rage generation from autoattack (roughly 6 rage total) is going to be mandatory.

You're effectively giving up a lot of defense for a bit of offensive. A good option to have for some situations, but hardly a great trade for most cases.

There probably always will be "mandatory" glyphs that are only replaced very situationally. Right now I'd say that Hold the Line and Heavy Repercussions are probably go-to glyphs in that regard.

Glyph of Victory Rush is likely to actually be mandatory for anyone who picks Impending Victory, since it's a flat out 50% buff to the effectiveness of that ability.
You forget about ultimatum procs
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85 Human Warrior
11430
Oops, good point. So it is a small rage gain. (Still don't think that glyph is mandatory, though, because Enrage is worth very little additional rage.)
Edited by Ahti on 4/15/2012 3:44 PM PDT
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90 Draenei Paladin
11765
It's actually worth quite a bit. Just some napkin math, but using devastate twice every 6 seconds will give you roughly a 50% chance to proc ultimatum. So that's a 50% change per cycle to proc a 6 second enrage. It won't exactly work out to a 50% enrage uptime due to overlap and RNG, but that's a lot of extra incoming rage.

E: I'm showing roughly 6.5 rage/s with 0 hit, expertise and mastery. I'm also assuming using berserker rage and a shout on CD and having the 10% melee haste buff. Up that to 50% enrage and I get 6.9 rage/s. That's a pretty big increase in shield block up-time for 1 glyph! That's roughly 550 hit/expertise itemization at level 85.
Edited by Beeparty on 4/15/2012 4:39 PM PDT
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90 Pandaren Warrior
15740
04/15/2012 04:34 PMPosted by Beeparty
It's actually worth quite a bit. Just some napkin math, but using devastate twice every 6 seconds will give you


Cupcakes?

Please tell me its cupcakes.
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90 Draenei Paladin
11765
Yeah, yeah, accidentally hit the button. :P
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90 Human Warrior
13005
"you can intervene your bannerz!"


Might I suggest you get over it?

Nope, it's even funnier than when they kept saying "heroic leap will do MASSIVE damage".

EDIT: And Gushing Wound.
Edited by Muspel on 4/15/2012 5:32 PM PDT
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90 Troll Warrior
13875
So we have our priority rotation slam rev tc for debuff dev with hs on ultimatum factoring in a 6 second shield block and/or switching to a 6 second magic reduction as rage allows. We now also want to be enraged as much as possible by smart use of ultimate/incite procs.

Yeah thats not too shabby a rotation, gives enough things to pay attention to while focusing on the the encounter and your cooldown usage. I guess once we get war banners and have a short duration buff to play around with as well it will be fun.
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90 Troll Death Knight
0
My only complaint about warriors right now is that their rotation seems rather slow compared to live.
Edited by Deathtime on 4/15/2012 6:06 PM PDT
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90 Pandaren Warrior
15740
04/15/2012 05:58 PMPosted by Deathtime
My only complaint about warriors is their rotation seems rather slow compared to live.


prot seems fine to me, arms seems a bit slow though
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90 Human Warrior
12850
04/15/2012 06:06 PMPosted by Ðemolition
My only complaint about warriors is their rotation seems rather slow compared to live.


prot seems fine to me, arms seems a bit slow though


Honestly, Arms felt kind of more fun to me than on Live. The main thing I noticed was that Overpower tends to proc off of itself with good enough RNG; Sometimes I would end up hitting Overpower until Mortal Strike was off cd. Instant Slam kind of makes it feel different though, but in a good way I feel.

04/15/2012 05:58 PMPosted by Deathtime
My only complaint about warriors right now is that their rotation seems rather slow compared to live.


Basically I look at it as our current rotation but slowed down about 50-60% (No math there, just "feeling").
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90 Pandaren Warrior
15740
I feel like sudden death needs to make your next CS free.

Arms i feel like i have 0 rage or 100 rage
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85 Human Warrior
11430
04/15/2012 04:34 PMPosted by Beeparty
E: I'm showing roughly 6.5 rage/s with 0 hit, expertise and mastery. I'm also assuming using berserker rage and a shout on CD and having the 10% melee haste buff. Up that to 50% enrage and I get 6.9 rage/s. That's a pretty big increase in shield block up-time for 1 glyph! That's roughly 550 hit/expertise itemization at level 85.


It's what, 7% more rage using your numbers? That's not really that significant. I'm unclear on what assumptions you're using for crit block rate - you'll have some enrage uptime from that regardless, and the more enrage you already have, obviously the less you gain from this glyph, Also not sure how you're arriving at the 550 hit/expertise conclusion, so maybe you could explain that a bit more.

The one thing it does have going for it is that there are very few defensive glyphs out there providing competition, so in that regard it could end up being a strong choice, I'll grant you that.
Edited by Ahti on 4/15/2012 7:11 PM PDT
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90 Dwarf Warrior
12760
04/15/2012 05:31 PMPosted by Muspel
EDIT: And Gushing Wound.

Make the boss move.

MAKE THE BOSS MOVE
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90 Human Warrior
12850
04/15/2012 07:39 PMPosted by Aedilhild
EDIT: And Gushing Wound.

Make the boss move.

MAKE THE BOSS MOVE


Fire shorty burnin' on the dance floor? o_O
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90 Dwarf Warrior
12760
04/15/2012 07:58 PMPosted by Lowmaine
Fire shorty burnin' on the dance floor? o_O

I was actually referencing Gushing Wound's potential issues in PvE, but we can definitely get the party people in the house down.
Edited by Aedilhild on 4/15/2012 8:09 PM PDT
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90 Draenei Paladin
11765
It's what, 7% more rage using your numbers? That's not really that significant. I'm unclear on what assumptions you're using for crit block rate - you'll have some enrage uptime from that regardless, and the more enrage you already have, obviously the less you gain from this glyph, Also not sure how you're arriving at the 550 hit/expertise conclusion, so maybe you could explain that a bit more.

The one thing it does have going for it is that there are very few defensive glyphs out there providing competition, so in that regard it could end up being a strong choice, I'll grant you that.


Sure:

RPS = Hit% * (RPS-Base * (1 + Haste%) * (1.25 * Enrage% + (1 - Enrage%)) + RPS-SS) + RPS-Shout

RPS: Rage Per Second
Hit%: Your chance to hit (1 - 7.5% * 3 for miss, dodge and parry at 0 hit and expertise)
RPS-Base: 5 rage per second
Haste%: I've been using 10% for the melee haste buff and no other haste
Enrage%: The percentage up time on rage. I've been using 10% for using berserker rage on CD. I have NOT included crit block in this, which as you mention is important. We do know, however what the lower bound (effectively ~10%) and upper bound is (100%). Work needs to be done here, because crit blocks will lower the value of Glyph of Incite. However, I'm pretty sure crit blocks are less likely to happen.
RPS-SS: Rage per second from shield slam. 1 2/3s for SS on CD or up to 2 1/3s when fishing for Revenge procs correctly.
RPS-Shout: Rage per second from using a shout on CD

At 0 hit, haste (not count buff), expertise, mastery and avoidance, using berserker rage and a shout on CD, you will generate 6.51 r/s. This translates into roughly 65% shield block uptime, assuming no overlapping and no wasted rage. Putting the enrage % at 50%, increase this to 6.94 r/s, or 69% shield block up time. The 550 hit + expertise comes from determining that that is the amount of those stats you would need to get about 6.9 r/s assuming haste is 10% and enrage% is 10%.

So there are definitely assumptions going into this and it's a bit contrived since you'll have some amount of these stats. However, hit, haste and expertise scales positively with glyph of incite, while all three scale negatively with mastery. Mastery itself is in a weird place, since pushing increased SB up time reduces the value of half mastery. The crit block half depends on how much effective block% you gain from hit, haste and expertise versus mastery. Hit, haste and expertise give a linear increase is SB%, while mastery has DR.

Also, 7% more rage is effectively 7% more shield block uptime. In a way, you can think of it as 7% more CTC coverage. If we could hit 10 r/s, assuming no SB overlaps or capping rage, you'd have 100% SB coverage and effectively back to 100% CTC. In the new glyph system, that's very significant, even if the value diminishes with increasing mastery (just like hit, expertise and haste).
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