Strength of stuns

85 Worgen Warlock
5770
and yet Warlocks still have equally strong control to Rogues, the hands-down best meele class in regards to control.

Edit:

Sort of like putting Warriors and Rogues side by side, nerfing the rogue and saying "Well, we should probably nerf the Warrior now."


"Equally strong control" You are playing the same game right? This isn't even about rogues in general it is purely about stuns. They should break on damage just like fear, polymorph and repentance do.

I'm just asking for you to have a little clear thinking here, and if you've not played another class, consider what I'm talking about.
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85 Human Rogue
1630
Stuns alone can't even compare to Fear. Fear is a pressure-oriented CC in the sense that it will be more useful if you end to gradually pressure the enemy team until you can score a kill while Stuns are used to keep a target in place so you can finish them off.

I'm also tempted to find the post from Conradical (I'll let you google him if you don't know who he is) talking about how Rogues/Warlocks/Mages are all equally good at controlling an enemy team, but each in different areas which may sway which the most useful depending on enemy team comp.

Stuns from other classes shouldn't even be an issue considering none of them are strong enough to make it a significant threat at the moment. Warriors are a joke, Ret Paladins aren't overpowered against teams that know what they're doing, and Death Knights are balanced all around. Hunters, like Warriors, shouldn't be a problem.

Edit: Repost this thread on AJ. I'm sure that there'll be a handful of people (amongst the flood of people laughing at the idea) who will explain the entire thing to you.
Edited by Schleichend on 4/21/2012 11:05 PM PDT
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and yet Warlocks still have equally strong control to Rogues, the hands-down best meele class in regards to control.

Edit:

Sort of like putting Warriors and Rogues side by side, nerfing the rogue and saying "Well, we should probably nerf the Warrior now."


"Equally strong control" You are playing the same game right? This isn't even about rogues in general it is purely about stuns. They should break on damage just like fear, polymorph and repentance do.

I'm just asking for you to have a little clear thinking here, and if you've not played another class, consider what I'm talking about.


I've been lurking in this thread for a while now. I still haven't seen any good reason to nerf stuns, except for "They screw you when Rogues do it." A Warriors isn't going to kill you in a stun. A Paladin isn't going to kill you in a stun. A Feral *might* But thats more of a Feral problem than a Stun problem...So...You'd screw Rets and Warriors, just because Rogues are retarded? How does that make sense. Rets rely on HoJ to make any form of viable CC work. A breakable CC that has a minute CD, makes no sense. If it breaks on damage, make it spammable like fear and Polymorph. Repentance is already pretty bad, consider the minute CD it has. It's a bad example.
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90 Orc Warrior
0
04/21/2012 11:08 PMPosted by Virsago
I still haven't seen any good reason to nerf stuns

That's just it. The OP can't formulate a proper argument supported by facts, statistics, experience, or even the slightest bit of theorycrafting and consideration for the consequences of his promoted change. He has deluded himself into thinking millions of players agree with him, it's quite amusing.

Go on, OP. 6 pages in and we're all still waiting with bated breath for a proper argument supporting your point.
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85 Worgen Warlock
5770


"Equally strong control" You are playing the same game right? This isn't even about rogues in general it is purely about stuns. They should break on damage just like fear, polymorph and repentance do.

I'm just asking for you to have a little clear thinking here, and if you've not played another class, consider what I'm talking about.


I've been lurking in this thread for a while now. I still haven't seen any good reason to nerf stuns, except for "They screw you when Rogues do it." A Warriors isn't going to kill you in a stun. A Paladin isn't going to kill you in a stun. A Feral *might* But thats more of a Feral problem than a Stun problem...So...You'd screw Rets and Warriors, just because Rogues are retarded? How does that make sense. Rets rely on HoJ to make any form of viable CC work. A breakable CC that has a minute CD, makes no sense. If it breaks on damage, make it spammable like fear and Polymorph. Repentance is already pretty bad, consider the minute CD it has. It's a bad example.


No matter how many times I say it you still don't listen. It's not 1v1 its 10v10 where balance is done and in that area stuns preventing a player from helping him/herself are too good. I don't really need any sort of data at all as everyone could see CC like fear without breaking on damage was too good.

Follow that with hunter monkey stun getting nerfed and you can see blizzard is starting to think the same.

Bamf you're deluded. When only a few players speak up and agree with me that doesn't mean plenty of players aren't even posting or reading forums that do agree. Six pages of no one able to defend a stun is really the funny part. I've no actual need to prove it needs nerfed since that's already common opinion.

Going into wrath we watched paladin bubble go from allowing 100% damage output while preventing any damage input. That was addressed in the coming months as the ability to do damage while not being damaged was considered a little too much.

How interesting it is to think the line of thinking is already there it just changes on the class. Stuns are no different than fear that didn't break on damage or paladin bubbles that gave outright immunity while allowing a player to damage another.

With so many things that could be changed sometimes problems get lost in the clutter, but right now I'm pointing the finger at a glaring problem. To sit back and say "all other CC's should break on damage, but mine shouldn't" is comical.

Bamf people are laughing at you, you just don't realize it. I'm not the one looking like an idiot here, but you'd have to be an idiot not to see it.

Virsigo I hope that clears it up for you. Stop lurking and speak up once in a while.
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85 Worgen Warlock
5770
Yeah guess that fear nerf was a bugfix too. We should go ahead and get stun bugfixed as well.
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90 Orc Warrior
0
04/22/2012 08:43 AMPosted by Aeryon
Bamf people are laughing at you, you just don't realize it.

Find me one person. I dare you.

04/22/2012 08:43 AMPosted by Aeryon
Six pages of no one able to defend a stun is really the funny part.

You clearly have a reading comprehension problem.

Seriously, just stop posting, you're making me feel embarrassed FOR you.
EDIT: And you still haven't provided an even remotely compelling argument. Go figure.
Edited by Bamf on 4/22/2012 11:48 AM PDT
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
1625
Its funny because your a dk and say that. Every class can be immune to fear in someway and has more than enough time to kill him.

That is why in MoP they are making fear instant cast because it more of just an interrupt instead of an actual cc
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100 Draenei Paladin
18780
Its funny because your a dk and say that. Every class can be immune to fear in someway and has more than enough time to kill him.

That is why in MoP they are making fear instant cast because it more of just an interrupt instead of an actual cc


Not sure if serious.
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85 Worgen Warlock
5770
I love snozberries! they're delicious.
Bamf the argument that stuns in 10v10 are too good is already compelling enough you add it to the current capability of some classes already able to solo a healer and it demonstrates a contradictory implementation of intended game mechanics.

The design is that healers be unkillable outside of mana starvation given good game play. Currently that is not the case, but in MOP it should be as it would be an improvement upon game mechanics.

Consider if a healer class cannot last through the stun mechanics what chance have other classes outside of their emergency CD's. You're sitting back and claiming every argument I post isn't convincing or determining of problematic game functions.

My goal isn't to convince you there's a problem. I'm pointing out everyone already knows it's a problem to blizzard so they'll fix it. As for given compensation to complete whatever goal they have for melee as far as CC function I imagine that's the real fundamental problem.

How do we remove a powerful CC or diminish it to no longer function on a primary target without breaking melee classes that depend heavily on it in current design. The answer I feel is not in adding or making ranged components rather in allowing of addition slows or gap closers and openers.

Improving melee mobility would be a large quality of life change and the removal of stuns as long lasting immunities would be a large quality of life change for ranged.

I find it greatly frustrating to close on kiting classes like mage and hunters to do any form of damage at all. However the use of stuns to permit an evening of the ground was short-sited as those mechanics work much too well when used against non kiting classes.

The current fix in the works appears to be just to give those classes more mobility, which will again exacerbate melee's existing problems.
Edited by Aeryon on 4/22/2012 3:14 PM PDT
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90 Orc Warrior
0
04/22/2012 03:13 PMPosted by Aeryon
Bamf the argument that stuns in 10v10 are too good is already compelling enough

No, you keep repeating this but you haven't actually provided any evidence supporting your point. I can say a red pen is blue over and over again, that doesn't make it blue.

04/22/2012 03:13 PMPosted by Aeryon
add it to the current capability of some classes already able to solo a healer and it demonstrates a contradictory implementation of intended game mechanics.

You keep repeating this is about 10v10, and then you offer an instance of 1v1 as an example. Seriously?
I'll humor you, though. Soloing a healer is about lining up proper interrupts and CC. There are, at most, 2 classes who can do that (rogue/feral druid). No healer is going to die in a single stun. Your (shallow) argument is completely invalid.

04/22/2012 03:13 PMPosted by Aeryon
The design is that healers be unkillable outside of mana starvation given good game play. Currently that is not the case, but in MOP it should be as it would be an improvement upon game mechanics.

The design is for healers to be unkillable 1v1 outside of mana starvation. Obviously, Blizzard failed here by refusing to nerf rogues (which is the only class a healer really fears). Expecting a healer to be unkillable outside of mana starvation with 2 or more people beating on said healer is just insane.

The current strat in RBGs is to weigh down upon the opposite team with massive DoT output. Where this isn't possible, properly timed CC and burst damage is what wins the game.

Tell me where stuns are overpowered in any of those scenarios.

04/22/2012 03:13 PMPosted by Aeryon
Consider if a healer class cannot last through the stun mechanics what chance have other classes outside of their emergency CD's.

They have 9 other teammates. You're obviously thinking 1v10, and completely discarding the other 9 players present.

Still waiting for you to make an actual argument, and not some "argument" that makes me silently chuckle to myself wondering if you actually believe the malarkey you're spewing.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
1625
sarcasm isn't perceived well over text =/ but yes i was trolling :)
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90 Orc Rogue
12810
04/15/2012 04:53 PMPosted by Aeryon
As a form of CC their duration is really of no complaint however at no point should you be reduced beyond 20% of your total hp without a stun breaking.

Why?
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85 Worgen Warlock
5770
I think the funniest part about this thread is a bunch of melee think I have some obligation to convince them stuns are too good.

The warlock says "stuns are a little much" and the rogue says "no it's not prove it."

I don't care if you agree the point is to get blizzard to look into it.

You see they already nerfed pally's bubble for the same reason I said stuns should be nerfed.

Blizzard already is following the same line of thinking I am. I'm merely pointing out something they missed. Do you think I need some sort of support of caster's and ranged in this thread? lol.

Hey blizzard look into nerfing stuns since pally bubble with 100% damage provides the same effect. Nerf it because there have been so many threads before mine calling for it. Remember prot warrior stun locking was nerfed because it wasn't fun to play against. Everyone said it was like fighting against a rogue that was more survivable.

Well rogues have recupe and look at how their survivability is so good now with it. Almost the same as prot warriors and about as much fun for ranged to play against.

Oh I forgot to mention thank you very much for fixing warrior charge it finally works. When I charge I finally end up on my target like I intended. Now we can go ahead and get rid of charge stun since that's why it was implemented.
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83 Gnome Mage
5070
That's just it. The OP can't formulate a proper argument supported by facts, statistics, experience, or even the slightest bit of theorycrafting and consideration for the consequences of his promoted change. He has deluded himself into thinking millions of players agree with him, it's quite amusing.

Go on, OP. 6 pages in and we're all still waiting with bated breath for a proper argument supporting your point.

Make some alts and feel it. Without graphs, numbers etc.
I have almost all classes alts (except shaman). As rogue I like to kill something stunned up to death. As warlock I liked kill everything feared up to death (but this sadly nerfed since WotLK). So as anything except my rogue I think being stunned up to death as equal as killing something constantly feared or polymorphed. But nothing changed still. I think the reason is: rogue as good as dead without stuns.
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90 Orc Warrior
0
04/23/2012 07:39 PMPosted by Aeryon
You see they already nerfed pally's bubble for the same reason I said stuns should be nerfed.

You can't be serious...

They nerfed it because of bubble-hearthing.

04/23/2012 07:39 PMPosted by Aeryon
Oh I forgot to mention thank you very much for fixing warrior charge it finally works. When I charge I finally end up on my target like I intended. Now we can go ahead and get rid of charge stun since that's why it was implemented.

Okay now I'm convinced this guy is a master troll.
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90 Human Warrior
13030
He's just mad cause he got stunned and had a lot of people kill him in that stun. In his 10v10 rbg, he didnt have anyone there to peel with an aoe fear or death grip or even just hop. So he wants stuns nerfed cause he sucks at working as a team or staying with his team.

If you want being stunned in a smoke bomb nerfed just say that. Nobody else has any problem with stuns. Just stupid smoke bomb. Getting someone imp hamstring in a smoke bomb is like 75% the same thing except they can pop some cd.

Bamf knows what he/she is talking about.
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85 Night Elf Hunter
4425
Reduce duration of Stuns, Reduce duration of Fear/sap/sheep/blind, and increase DR.

Nerf Damage, Nerf Healing.

Grats, you just made half the specs in the game useless.
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