Topic (Locked) War Time, a Rogues PvP guide (4.3) + FAQs
Edited by Snozyisback on 5/11/12 9:30 AM (PDT)
Hi my name is Snoz,
I am a 2400 exp player (nothing amazing).I have written up to date guide for 4.3
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/sargeras/Snozx/simple is my main.
However if you have any questions please feel free to ask them here.
I also want to thank Sheevah for saving my bacon and saving this guide so I didnt have to start from scratch!.
Many thanks to Nahjx and Sheevah for assistance/tweaks to this guide.
Table of Contents
3. Stat priority
7. Races (and racials)
8. Viable Comps
10. Gear Setups/PvE options
12. Frequently Asked Questions
There are currently 2 very popular rogue specs out right now. They are the 10/0/31 Backstab spec and the 8/2/31 Hemo spec
This is a pure Backstab spec. You only use Hemo in this spec if you are unable to get behind the target
or to keep a bleed up for SV
8/2/31 - http://www.wowhead.com/talent#fchbZbZcGccducRho
This a pure Hemo spec. In this spec you only use Hemo to generate combo points. This spec is used in mostly defensive RLS comps.
There are also a couple talents you can change around in the Sub tree based on personal preference.
Some rogues like to drop two points out of Hat for Waylay.
There are actually a few really good glyphs, sadly we can only get three of each
Shadow Dance - Adds 2 seconds to your shadow dance
Hemo - Adds a bleed debuff thats easier to keep up for SV
Backstab - Backstab crits return 5 energy
Slice N Dice - Increases the duration of slice n dice by
Eviscerate - Increases critical strike chance of Eviscerate by 10%
Preperation - Resets the CD on Kick, Dismantle, and Smoke Bomb
Blind - Clears off all dots on target you blind
Garrote - Increases the duration of garrotes silence effect by 1.5 seconds
Safe Fall - increases distance you fall without taking any damage
Poisons - Increases poison application*
Distract - Increases the range of your distract by 5 yards
(please note that * is a glyph for arenas. If you are mostly doing BGs or RBGs its better to swap glyph of poisons for glyph of blurred speed)
For the 10/0/31 Backstab spec you will want to use
For the 8/2/31 Hemo spec you will want to use
Slice N Dice or Eviscerate
The comparison between Slice N Dice and Eviscerate is a personal choice.
Glyph of Slice N Dice allows more uptime on slice n dice leaving more combo points for recup/kidney/evis
Glyph of Eviscerate allows for harder hitting eviscerates adding a little bit more burst in a dance
(We dont use backstab glyph as hemo due to the fact that backstab is not worth the energy cost with the loss of Puncturing Wounds)
3. Stat Priority
With Rogues it is pretty simple, your main stat you want to have is Agility. Agility affects not only your AP, but crit and dodge as well.
Rogue PvP stat system is this
Agility > PvP hit (5%) > Expertise (20/20) > Crit > Haste > Mastery
Helm - 65 Agility + 35 Resil (Honor vendor/TB vendor)
Shoulder - 50 Agility + 25 Resil (Honor vendor/TB vendor
Cloak - 70 Spell Pen or 22 Agility or 65 Crit
Chest - 40 Resil or +20 Stats
Bracers - 50 Agility
Gloves - 20 Agility or 50 Expertise
Belt - Ebonsteel Belt Buckle
Legs - 190 Attack Power + 55 Crit
Boots - 35 Agility
Main Hand - Landslide
Off Hand - Pyrium Weapon Chain
Gemming relies almost completely on your gear setup and personal preference.
As a rogue you dont need alot resil compared to most other classes because of how many escape mechanics we have + our partners are better to lockdown.
Yellow = Agility + Resil
Blue = Agiliy +Hit
(The above gemming is if you are wanting to match socket bonuses I personally feel you should gem straight Agility if you are wearing full PvP gear and only use agility + resil if you are wearing 2 or 3 plus PvE pieces or agility + hit if you are having issues getting capped)
Rogues have a priority system when it comes to finishers.
Recuperate - Due to being a small heal + energy regeneration
Kidney Shot - Dont just use it to use it. Use it when someone on your team needs a peel, going for a kill, or to control the other team.
Slice and Dice - Increases our attack speed and is a solid damage boost
Eviscerate - Is more of a combo point dump, you will really only use this if Recup and SnD is already up and you dont need to kidney to peel/cc someone.
Rupture - Never used
Expose Armor - Never used
Edited by Snozyisback on 4/23/12 1:16 AM (PDT)
Here I am going to break down both Alliance and Horde racials and my personal opinion for which is "best" for each faction.
Human - Every Man For Himself
Night Elf - Shadowmelf
Gnome - Escape Artist
Worgen - Worgen Sprint
Dwarf - Stoneform
Undead - Will of the Forsaken
Blood Elf - Arcane Torrent
Orc - Blood fury + Stun resist
Goblin - Rocket Jump + Rocket Barrage
Troll - Berserk
As far as the focus macro's, it might also be worth noting that you can set a modifier key (whichever you prefer out of alt, shift, or ctrl) to automatically cast at your focus. So, the really simple focus macros aren't even required anymore. The only problem with this is if you set focus for different things. For example my focus shiv is shift e while focus gouge is ctr w.
Macros are one of those things that can make or break you. I will list as many of mine as I can. There are 2 types of macros you will use as a rogue in PvP.
@Focus macros and @arena1/2/3 ect. What these macros do is allow you to say gouge your focus while keeping your kill target targeted.
The below Macro isnt rogue specific and should be used on everytoon if you plan on doing arenas past a point cap.
While not looking like much what this does is change your focus to the Arena 1 frame. Then you would make 2 more changing the 1 to a 2 for arena 2 and 3 for arena 3. What this Macro does is set the person you want as focus quickly without having to right click Gladius or the actual frame and set them as a focus.
As a rogue there are a few ability's you are going to want to have a bind for the regular and a @focus as well.
/cast [target=focus] X or /cast [@focus] x
Is what the macro would look like. You can also copy this one and just change the X to what ability you need. The ability's you need to do this too are kick, gouge, Shiv, cheapshot, garrote, dismantle, blind, shadowstep.
I currently have 4 blind macros
3 for Arena 1,2,3 that look like. You should have one of these macros for each one for blind and also dismantle.
/cast [target=arena1] Blind
Again I swap out arena1 for arena2 and then I have a focus blind that looks like
/cast [nomod,target=focus,exists,harm,nostealth] Blind; Blind
What this macro does is blinds your focus if you have one set, if you dont it blinds your current target.
Again you just change out 1 for 2/3
Shadow dance macro
#show Shadow Dance
/cast Shadow Dance
What this macro does is use my shadowdance along with my trinket in slot 14 (my On use trinket) The /use 10 is there so that way when my second shadow dance is up (onuse will still be on CD) I will use my synapse springs the same time I use my dance.
You can also put /use 13 for the other trinket slot. It all depends on where you have your trinkets placed on your gear sets.
I currently run 2 sap macros
/console targetNearestDistance 10.000000
/console targetNearestDistance 41.000000
This is my find stealth macro, if you ever are in an arena or BG agaisnt a druid or another rogue just spam this and you will have a much easier time getting a sap.
Sheevah has said they changed the format and all you need is
I personally havent tried this and am using the same macro Nahjx gave me. Try whichever one works better for you.
I then have a Focus Sap macro
#showtooltip Deadly Throw
/cast Deadly Throw
This macro allows me to deadlythrow if I have combo points and then throw using the same bind
Kidneyshot + redirect Kidneyshot
This macro is one of my favorites. If I hit the bind for this it kidneys my target, while if I hit shift it lets me redirect kidney my focus (please be aware you have to hit it twice when hitting shift, once to redirect and then once to Kidney)
#showtooltip Kidney Shot
/cast [nomod,stance:0/3] Kidney shot
/castsequence [mod:shift,stance:0/3,@focus, exists] reset=20 Redirect, Kidney Shot
Shadowstep + Shadowstep Focus Kick
What this macro does is shadowstep my current target, if I hit Shift it Shadowsteps my focus target. If I hit Shift again it will kick my focus target
/cast [nomod] Shadowstep
/cast [mod:shift,@focus] Shadowstep
/cast [mod:shift,@focus] kick
Edited by Snozyisback on 4/18/12 4:07 AM (PDT)
Stealth Macros. The following are my stealth macros I use when in stealth
/cast [nomod] Ambush
/cast [mod:shift] Garrote
/cast [mod:ctrl,@focus] Garrote
#showtooltip Cheap Shot
/cast [nomod] Cheap Shot
/cast [mod:shift] Premeditation
/cast [mod:ctrl,@focus] Cheap Shot
Now these macros will only work based on how you set up your bars. The Ambush macro is dragged onto my S bind and whenever I hit S it ambushes, shift S is a garrote, and control S is a focus garrote. You can change them up based on preference or make individual macros for each /cast
#showtooltip wound poison
/use [nomod, button:1] Wound Poison; [nomod, button:2] Crippling Poison; [mod:shift, button:3] Crippling Poison
/use [button:1] 16; [button:2] 17; [button:3] 18
This macro allows for easy poison application, make sure you put it somewhere you dont have a bind. Hover over it and press left mouse button for wound, right mouse button for crip on OH and shift wheel for crip on thrown.
9. Current 3v3 Comps
In this section I am going to touch in on some of the 3v3 comps rogues do well in. Rogues have really good synergy with alot of classes atm. They work very well with Mages/Locks/Hunters/Priests. Rogues thrive in a melee/caster/healer type comps. They can work in melee cleaves but they arent as strong as the teams below.
RMP - Rogue/Mage/Priest
RLS - Rogue/Lock/Shaman
RPS - Rogue/Priest/Shaman (also known as Heroic RLS)
RMS - Rogue/Mage/Shaman
Thug Cleave - Rogue/Hunter/Disc or Shaman
RPD - Rogue/SPriest/RDruid
RLD - Rogue/Lock/Druid
Stealth Cleave - Rogue/Fdruid/Disc
Scumbag Cleave - Rogue/Ret/Hunter or DK
10. Gear setups and PvE gear options.
Due to how rogues as a class are designed we have the option to use more PvE gear than other classes.
Alot of the common items used are
Fear + Vengance (First tier of the Legendary quest)
Sleeper + Dreamer (Second tier of the Legendary quest)
Golad + Tiriosh (Final Stage of Legendary quest)
T13 Legs - The itemization on these legs versus the Cataclysmic ones is much better (Hit + Crit over Haste)
T13 2set - The 2set bonus on this cuts your energy cost on abilitys after using tricks by 20%. If you can run this I strongly suggest doing it. (The best pair to run is Legs/Helm or Legs/Shoulders depending on what you have.)
Vial of Shadows - Is a solid trinket even though it has a proc instead of an onuse
Again this is all personal preference and varies depending on what aspect of the game you are playing.
Also please note that LFR two piece is not worth the loss of stats over Cataclysmic.
Gladius - Tracks Enemy teams CDs/DRs in Arena
Battleground Targets - Gladius like tool tracking enemys health/spec/mana/FC status in BGs
Diminishing Returns - Tracks DRs on the unit frame
Lose Control - Shows CC over portrait
OmniCC - Shows swing timers
Juked - Shows the abiltiys the other team uses on CD
ExtraCD - Tracks trinkets internal cooldown
Poisoner - Easier application of poisons
Many thanks to Nahjx and Sheevah for assistance/tweaks to this guide.
Edited by Snozyisback on 4/23/12 2:57 PM (PDT)
12. Frequently Asked Questions?
Below I will have alot of the common asked questions with an anwser. I will also be updating these questions as they are asked in the thread.
The above is a link to a more basic FAQ guide made by Rfeann and Sheevah. My FAQs will be solely PvP oriented . Big thanks to them for doing that.
Q: Is hemo sword/axe/mace viable?
A: No, the only time you would use a sword/axe/mace is if you have a strong PvE one. For example NohKaled (normal/heroic)is one of the only weapons you would ever use besides a dagger. Rogues are a dagger class in my opinion.
Q: The best trinket setup?
A: At this point in time I would say that an on use is pretty mandatory. Vial of Shadows is a very close second choice and may be better based on personal opinion. If you are a human Vial + Cata Onuse are the best setup to run. If you do not have Vial of Shadows then double onuse (one cata and one ruthless) are the best route to go so you can have an onuse trinket up for every dance.
Q:Which rogue control/CC share DR, and which DR?
A: Rogue stuns (Cheap shot and Kidney shot) are on the control stuns DR. Blind shares a DR with Fear. Sap shares a DR with Sheep and Hex.
Q: How long does it take to clear controlled stun dr?
A: Kidney Shot takes 25 seconds, Cheap Shot takes 20 seconds.
Q: Is it better to avoid a Cheap Shot opener if you want to ks/dance within 15 seconds?
A: to be honest you almost never want to dance within the first 15 seconds. First its a waste of Find Weakness. Two, you wont have energy pooled. Third, you also wont have Recuperate and Slice N Dice up at the same time. There are some situations where it might be ideal like trying to force blink from a mage but its all situational.
Q: Is 70 spell pen on back enough and why?
A: Yes, the whole reason to get the 70 Spell Pen is for poisons to not get resisted
Q: Will fok apply thrown weapon poison to target only or to all in the aoe?
A: I applies to everyone, however it is not reliable.
Q: When would you use combat readiness instead of saving CLoS cd?
A: It all depends on what comp you are playing, what comp you are playing agaisnt, how much pressure there is. To be honest there really is no cut and paste anwser, everything is situational and to your best judgment. I try to use it whenever I think they might swap to me (playing agaisnt a melee cleave)
Q: While dancing for a kill should I be dumping cp with evis or just keep ambushing?
A: You should be dumping combo points with Evis, not only is it more damage but it also procs Relentless Strikes which restores energy
Q: When is the best time to Shadowdance?
A: For damage, when you have Recuperate, Slice N Dice, 5 combo points with Kidneyshot off of CD and the target having no stun DR. For CC, if there is a fear/blind ect out on a target and you can get a dance sap off.
Q: When do you know the right time to smoke bomb?
A: When not only you but your partner can get some heavy damage out either at the end or start of a CC chain.
Also when playing against Resto Shaman teams, you can try to predict an SLT (Spirit Link Totem) and bomb before its dropped SLT will do nothing. Smokebomb will completely negate the SLT and make it useless.
Q:What can a rogue do while pooling energy for a Shadowdance?
A: Auto Attack unless you need to Gouge/Kick ect.
Q:what should I do when I know there is a stealther on the opposing team that is waiting for me?
A: Use a Sap macro :D
Edited by Snozyisback on 4/15/12 5:39 PM (PDT)
2360 highest rating, I have played at 2400 MMR.
I RBG on my warrior not that it even matters.
If you would be so kind as to not try to derail this informative guide that is needed.
81 Blood Elf Rogue
Edited by Shadowiyn on 4/24/12 11:22 PM (PDT)
OOHHH i'd have never thought of this by myself
Thanks i love saving space macros, Btw. are you wanting this thread stickied, last one you didn't ?
Edited by Outplayedlol on 4/17/12 9:38 AM (PDT)
RBG rating does not mean anything you know that right?
OOHHH i'd have never thought of this by myself
Would be nice if this replaced the current abomination that is the stickied PvP thread.
The last one got deleted because of another thread. But to be honest I am glad it got deleted so I could take up more reserve spots.