Getting wrecked in PvP as Afflict. What do?

90 Human Warlock
14385
The areas of pvp without cunning of the cruel/legendary staff/rath'rak that apparently everyone 2200+ has.

These trinkets and weapons are the warlock's crutch to high ratings. Cunning/legendary staff each increase damage by about 20% if not more.

I truly believe that without these PVE items, warlocks would be doing poorly in arena.


Cunning is around 18%-22% per arena, while Legendary is more like 6%.

If PvE items aren't a factor, warlocks will reign supreme. If you watched the NAO tournament, the two final teams both had a warlock.

If PvE items are a factor, just look at the ladder and see how well we're doing.

If PvE items are a factor for the opposing team but not the warlock (even though it's unfair to judge this), warlocks will still do incredibly well just because our spread pressure is great, our control is great, and our survivability is great.

If you think we need PvE gear to do well, you are wrong. Currently, the most competitive battlegroup is Nightfall. Their rank 1 team has a warlock on it that doesn't have a Cunning, a Legendary, or any other PvE item.
Edited by Conradical on 4/12/2012 2:12 PM PDT
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85 Human Warlock
4750


If Warlocks are fine in arenas, and fine in bgs.. does that not conclude they are...fine? I'm not sure what else is measurable for your conclusion they are not fine?


Just because you can walk with crutches doesn't mean you leg is ok.

Face it, after they nerfed some of the tankiness from warlocks it made us very clunky with little defense and escapes.
There is a ton of prep needed for locks to be on par with most classes.
We have to set up a port that's some what easy to be pulled out of range of and countered by shadow step which has zero setup.
CoW - other classes do it better.
CoT - yup, other classes do it better.
CoE - see a pattern here?
Shadow Flame - (glyphed) yeah... Tell me you would take that over Dragon Breath.... Didn't think so.
Tons of hard casting for demo and destro for sub-par burst.

Don't get me wrong a handful of tweaks and it's a great class without being OP. We were left limping after a bunch of nerfs and changes with little thought of survivablity in 1 on 1 or tight situations.


No, your analogy makes no sense in this context. If someone can win the olympic 100m with prostethic legs are they still crippled? Warlocks are the most over-represented class in every pvp area.

Port, because we can set it up, allows us much more active strategy on our escapes than other classes. If your porting into a grip or step every time that's on you.

How has tankiness been nerfed? soul-link is still operating, we have massive self-healing

COW, as far as I know is a unique debuff. 10% less melee damage that also causes increased resource cost (with jinx) that can easily be spread due to 2 minute uptime and range.

CoT is similar to DK Necrotic strike, without the healing absorbtion. However, different classes are different. DK cannot easily put the casting debuff on multiple healers/casters while still doing damage. They are no ranged.

Dragonbreath compared to shadowflame is grasping at straws. Mages and Warlocks function differently. Fire mages have to continously hardcast spells to deal damage, we have to put up UA and Haunt (12 seconds of not needing to hardcast for damage, then able to soul-swap to a second target without casting.) Fire mages need some way to get spells off.
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85 Goblin Warlock
2640
A warlock with cunning/legendary staff/rath'rak will do better than a warlock in full pvp gear with pvp trinkets.

The teams that achieved high rankings did so early in the season before the select few warlocks who didn't lose rolls to mages, boomkins etc emerged. They have been sitting on rating for a while and likely haven't even queued against teams with these items.

Think about it though. You said that cunning is 18-22% of your damage in arenas. If you did a theoretical 1mil damage that means 200,000 of it was this trinket proc'ing. Without this trinket you would have done 800,000 damage. So in reality this trinket is a dps boost of 25%. That's a crap ton of additional free damage.

Would you agree that demon soul is one heck of a good cooldown? Demon soul increases periodic dot damage by 20%. Cunning of the cruel is better than having a permanent demon soul.

You're a top pvp warlock and you use it. That should say something about its usefulness in the eyes of top ranked pvpers.
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90 Human Warlock
14385
A warlock with cunning/legendary staff/rath'rak will do better than a warlock in full pvp gear with pvp trinkets.

The teams that achieved high rankings did so early in the season before the select few warlocks who didn't lose rolls to mages, boomkins etc emerged. They have been sitting on rating for a while and likely haven't even queued against teams with these items.

Think about it though. You said that cunning is 18-22% of your damage in arenas. If you did a theoretical 1mil damage that means 200,000 of it was this trinket proc'ing. Without this trinket you would have done 800,000 damage. So in reality this trinket is a dps boost of 25%. That's a crap ton of additional free damage.

Would you agree that demon soul is one heck of a good cooldown? Demon soul increases periodic dot damage by 20%. Cunning of the cruel is better than having a permanent demon soul.

You're a top pvp warlock and you use it. That should say something about its usefulness in the eyes of top ranked pvpers.


I'm not denying that cunning is insane, overpowered, ridiculous, and should be removed. What I'm denying is warlocks being underpowered or needing these items to do well. And that rank1 team on Nightfall xferred there well into the season.
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85 Goblin Warlock
2640
I can't say I'll ever 100% agree with you since I still feel like this trinket brings warlocks up from middle of the pack.

I think that if other classes had access to this trinket for their particular school of magic (Boomkins= nature, mages= frost/fire) then that classes individual performance would skyrocket over warlocks and that there would be a lot more QQ since they can put out larger damage in shorter amounts of time than locks.

Warlocks' damage is a bit sneaky at the moment since warlock burst is practically nonexistent but overall damage is pretty high. However, this trinket gives them that burst (albeit RNG burst) and it helps them out so significantly.

The trinket is even more noticeable in RBG's so much so that teams practically demand warlocks to have it or won't let you in any 2k+ groups. I skimmed over the top RBG players and besides the obvious carries, most warlocks had this trinket.

Also it's kind of depressing that this trinket is such an improvement with such a low drop percentage. I'm jealous of all warlocks that have it as I know it would certainly help me out in pvp.

ps. Give me cunning and i'll never complain again.
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85 Troll Warlock
4480
Locks mechanics don't allow for a large margin of error, if you're not prepared, you'll be curb stomped. If you're not on the move, have a portal down somewhere close. It doesn't so much have to be out of sight as it needs to be a bit away (in short, don't use it if you're only standing 2ft away from it). Melee grabs you, toss a deathcoil, send CoEx or Shadowflame if he's still close, and port away and start doting him down.

If nothing else, walk away with this: Locks in BGs are something of a "support" class, go alone, you'll usually lose in a 1v1 fight. Stick with a group of people, you'll make the other team's life a living hell.
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100 Human Warlock
8495
04/11/2012 10:18 PMPosted by Aozotorp
i just deleted my lock.i did almost nothing but pvp to 20.things went from so so to just awful.it was clear a lock isnt a good choice for a pvp char.even with vanillia and healing potions.mages,rogues,hunters,pallies,all owned me.about the only char in pvp i was better then was a warrior.theyre just an awful char all the way around.so what to do.do as i did and delete your lock and make a rogue or hunter


Because lvl 20 is a great indication of what 85 will be like.


But it explains why lock population is so low.

People quit long before level cap. Will get worse at 90 if Blizzard doesn't fix low level pvp
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85 Human Warlock
1585
Aff needs peels and or a heal bot in all areas of pvp, in bgs you will become a pvp magnet, where it seems people zero in on you from the other side of the map "omfg warlock kill iiiiit1"

/sad face
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85 Undead Death Knight
0
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100 Undead Warlock
4095


Just because you can walk with crutches doesn't mean you leg is ok.

Face it, after they nerfed some of the tankiness from warlocks it made us very clunky with little defense and escapes.
There is a ton of prep needed for locks to be on par with most classes.
We have to set up a port that's some what easy to be pulled out of range of and countered by shadow step which has zero setup.
CoW - other classes do it better.
CoT - yup, other classes do it better.
CoE - see a pattern here?
Shadow Flame - (glyphed) yeah... Tell me you would take that over Dragon Breath.... Didn't think so.
Tons of hard casting for demo and destro for sub-par burst.

Don't get me wrong a handful of tweaks and it's a great class without being OP. We were left limping after a bunch of nerfs and changes with little thought of survivablity in 1 on 1 or tight situations.


No, your analogy makes no sense in this context. If someone can win the olympic 100m with prostethic legs are they still crippled? Warlocks are the most over-represented class in every pvp area.

Port, because we can set it up, allows us much more active strategy on our escapes than other classes. If your porting into a grip or step every time that's on you.

How has tankiness been nerfed? soul-link is still operating, we have massive self-healing

COW, as far as I know is a unique debuff. 10% less melee damage that also causes increased resource cost (with jinx) that can easily be spread due to 2 minute uptime and range.

CoT is similar to DK Necrotic strike, without the healing absorbtion. However, different classes are different. DK cannot easily put the casting debuff on multiple healers/casters while still doing damage. They are no ranged.

Dragonbreath compared to shadowflame is grasping at straws. Mages and Warlocks function differently. Fire mages have to continously hardcast spells to deal damage, we have to put up UA and Haunt (12 seconds of not needing to hardcast for damage, then able to soul-swap to a second target without casting.) Fire mages need some way to get spells off.


Of corse he's still crippled. Do you think he dosn't want his own foot or leg? What if I rip his leg off? Then what? He better have a good Shaman friend. That's what! Because now he's about as fast as a Warlock.

Our tankiness was nerfed when they changed our healing coefficients with drain life and Syphon proc rates. They also changed soul link a few patches back. What did we get in return? It should have been some kind of mobility maybe give port the soul burn effect or add a few seconds to it, give port a little more range. As for moving out of range of the port CCs happen, people move, the whole battle moves...

CoW (untalented) is similar to frost fever. Frost fever is spread via AoEs and is a dot.

CoT is not even in the same ball park as NS. You make Necrotic Strike sound it's underwhelming. 30% casting slow, damage and a heal absorb sounds bad !@# to me.

How's dragons breath grasping for straws? It's the same spell different color. We got the short end of the stick for the two.

Like I said Warlocks are not far off from being a great class solo. And solo is where most people choke playing locks. There's no need a buff to damage just slightly better their escape methods and your in business.
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85 Troll Warlock
7280
pvp at low levels is kinda frustrating as there is a lot of shadow resist abilities/racials that gimp a warlock pretty hard IMO as lock fire spells and any sort of spell pen don't really come into play until later levels,


worgen/undead (very popular race) has shadow resistance as racial
priest buff
pally aura
Edited by Evilbateye on 4/14/2012 6:12 PM PDT
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85 Undead Rogue
3055
If I see a Warlock in a BG I will most certainly train him into the ground every chance I have. Why? Because he will then no longer be able to get any casts off. It's too easy. I also know he surely will not be able to 1v1 me... as Affliction anyways. I know damn well your team isn't going to heal you or peel for you; it's a random bg. The only thing more appealing is an enemy Rogue running around unstealthed in quest gear.... even then....
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90 Troll Warlock
13045
Ya rogues and feral druids fight like cowards, they always wait until we are around 50% health and then jump us, or only come at us with a friend, and make it 2v1, but I make sure to leave them guys with a nice curse of weakness, and bane of doom. Ya they can cloak it, but then their cloak is on cd =]

I also wouldn't suggest affliction in pvp, go demo. You get a pet with a 4 second stun, and a felstorm (bladestorm), and you get metaporphosis, which is amazing burst especially when combined with demon soul. I have crit people for 70k with hand of gul'dan + cds in just regular ruthless gear in bgs. no joke.
Edited by Crash on 4/16/2012 1:14 AM PDT
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85 Worgen Warlock
5740
In many maps hide your portal in a house or somewhere with bushes or walls around. It confuses people heaps and is fun to see.
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85 Worgen Warlock
5740
Another advice - dont wear transmog gear or anything shiny. People that dont use bg targets will go for the shiny and pretty target. If you wear second hand stuff, you ll probably survive longer.
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90 Orc Warlock
0
get a resto shaman to queue with or don't pvp
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90 Human Warlock
5165
I too am getting wrecked... When I play destro my CCs are pretty good, but I feel like every single class has a way to get right back on me.

On top of that, I feel like I do NO damage.
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100 Orc Warlock
15625
04/12/2012 06:20 PMPosted by Urtla
!@#$duty
04/12/2012 06:20 PMPosted by Urtla
cult


Those are the only 3 words I could make out from that.
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90 Undead Warlock
6865
I levelled this guy to 85 a while ago and then did nothing with him. Recently I have worked on him and now he's decently geared. Until you get some resil and a decent health pool you're gonna get wrecked. Try to stay with groups and in the mean time and life will be a little easier. Once you get to a decent amount of resil it gets much better, except for those damn rogues.
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