Rumors about 25 mans, please no Blizz

90 Pandaren Shaman
HC
9325
It can't be hard being friends with them. Considering there are TWENTY EIGHT OF THEM.


And 19 are douchebags?

You see what I did there?

I've nevered liked more than about 9-10 people in any 25m guilds I've been in. Especially now, where trolling and d-bagging is out of control. All the people I used to like, are now the same generic level 1 shadow IRL.

Believe it or not, i'm actually a nice, helpful, likable person! 3:

hmm.
Edited by Eein on 4/16/2012 12:21 PM PDT
90 Blood Elf Paladin
11560
04/16/2012 12:19 PMPosted by Fayolynn
Best solution, don't make anymore 25 man raids...boom problem solved.


Best solution, don't make anymore 10 man raids...boom problem solved.

o.O How about they actually just address the problem.


What problem? That people prefer leading fewer other people?
58 Orc Death Knight
100
04/16/2012 12:20 PMPosted by Eein
It can't be hard being friends with them. Considering there are TWENTY EIGHT OF THEM.


And 19 are douchebags?

You see what I did there?

I've nevered liked more than about 9-10 people in any 25m guilds I've been in. Especially now, where trolling and d-bagging is out of control. All the people I used to like, are now the same generic level 1 shadow IRL.

Believe it or not, i'm actually a nice, helpful, likable person! 3:

hmm.


Sounds like a personal problem.
90 Draenei Shaman
13685
04/16/2012 12:20 PMPosted by Harpoa
You could 4 heal H Morchok early on. You coudn't 10 heal it in 25 man. Otherwise you are spot on.


That's true.
I felt that Morchok in itself wasn't that difficult an encounter on either difficulty pre-nerf so I simply put it as an "equal" difficulty. :p
90 Pandaren Shaman
HC
9325
04/16/2012 12:21 PMPosted by Ehcks
What problem? That people prefer leading fewer other people?


Best solution, don't make anymore 10 man raids...boom problem solved.

o.O How about they actually just address the problem.


What problem? That people prefer leading fewer other people?


15m raids.

Everyone is happy. Tanks are in good balance, and so are healers and DPS.

....

"BUT I LOVE THE OTHER 24 PEOPLE I RAID WITH AND I COULD NEVER GET RID OF 10"

"BUT I CANT FIND 5 MORE PEOPLE? WTFF"

04/16/2012 12:21 PMPosted by Novalas
You could 4 heal H Morchok early on. You coudn't 10 heal it in 25 man. Otherwise you are spot on.


That's true.
I felt that Morchok in itself wasn't that difficult an encounter on either difficulty pre-nerf so I simply put it as an "equal" difficulty. :p


This is not taking in account of people getting blown up by orbs on the other side of the room while taking a stomp while taking an orb.

I'm not sure if that came out right, but people that were in there day 1 know what i'm talking about.
Edited by Eein on 4/16/2012 12:24 PM PDT
90 Draenei Death Knight
16200
04/16/2012 12:15 PMPosted by Ehcks
The raid itself isn't easier.


Yes it is. The bosses don't hit as hard, the DPS requirement per DPS'er is much, MUCH lower, and you can often cheese the fights by doing with significantly fewer healers than initially designed for. (1 or 2 healing instead of 3, as opposed to 25-man which might be 5-healing instead of 5 or 7)

Consider adds on heroic rag - if they hit you on 25-man, you're dead, they hit for over 1 million. If they hit you on 10-man, it kind of tickles as they hit you for 20-40k. The bosses are MUCH, MUCH easier on 10-player. This is true for ALL of T10, T11, and T12, and most of T13. The only benefit for doing 25-man in T13 is on fights where it's beneficial to have more bodies to cover the floor, such as Hagara and Blackhorn. Heroic Madness is the one true oddity, however, as that fight is actually tuned to be more difficult on 10-player than it is on 25-player. If their intent was to do that to balance 10 v 25, they should have done that on Yor'sahj though, not Madness.
58 Orc Death Knight
100
I would be fine with 15 man raids, because we'd get the best of both...worlds.

*grumbles*
90 Human Mage
LA
12650
40 mans were removed because it restricted the number of people who were raiding.


The exact same argument can be made for 25 mans, especially since Blizzard has stated a greater percentage of the community is raiding then ever before. It is fairly clear that 10 man raiding was successful, I would be a bit surprised if someone here was actually arguing against that point.


And that's all fine and dandy. More people are raiding now that is great.

That really has nothing to do with this argument.

and since you ignored it last time...

Honestly until Blizzard decided to cater to the people who only wanted to raid 10 mans the exact same argument of "it should stand on its own merit" was used in regards to 10 mans. It wasn't a valid argument then so why is it now?

On a side note, if your 10 man group is as solid as you say why does any of this matter to you?
Edited by Fayolynn on 4/16/2012 12:27 PM PDT
90 Troll Druid
15340
The problem with topics like this is the same reasons get used and the thread just goes in cycles.

25 mans guilds are harder to organize and harder to maintain. OP is denying that this is the case. Without him excepting this he wont be able to understand why there should be an incentive to do it.

People taking the path of least resistance is one thing. Blizzard not encouraging the harder paths to be taken is another.

As hard as things should be people will always want them to be easier and its blizzards job to determine when and what they want to be easy and what they want to encourage people to do things that are difficult.

Really if someone cant except that its harder to create and maintain a 25 man raiding guild over a 10 man then there is no point arguing with them.
Edited by Reveries on 4/16/2012 12:25 PM PDT
90 Blood Elf Priest
12170
04/16/2012 12:13 PMPosted by Uglysticks

How does adding 15 people suddenly make it more "epic"? The number of people does not make a raid more worthy. It is the raid itself. Seriously, how many of you who raid 25-mans actually even talk to more than 1/8 of your raid team?


This is why 10 mans are garbage. Why would you not talk to your guildies? Why would you not get to know them? Go play a single player game.

The point being that I know everyone of the people in my 10-man, and talk to them regularly in and out of game. The average 25-man has your cliques and the random people who log into to do their job, collect loot and then leave.
Community Manager
We'll continue making adjustments as necessary to keep 10- and 25-player raids within a relative alignment, in terms of time investment, difficulty and rewards. It may never be perfect, but we still see interest in both raid sizes for different reasons. And ultimately we'll continue designing 25-player raids as long as there are a decent number of guilds interested in the format. We've seen no evidence as of yet that such interest is waning to any degree that should cause us great concern.

We tend to begin raid design around 25 players anyway before tuning for the various sizes and difficulties. That, when combined with our intent to carry on with 25-player Raid Finder group sizes, makes it very much worth our time to continue designing 25-player raids.

Regardless of what players' personal preferences or opinions are regarding the varied raid formats in World of Warcraft, we don't see removing options as a smart choice in the foreseeable future.
90 Draenei Shaman
13685
This is not taking in account of people getting blown up by orbs on the other side of the room while taking a stomp while taking an orb.

I'm not sure if that came out right, but people that were in there day 1 know what i'm talking about.


Oh god, Morchok bugs. ><
Edited by Novalas on 4/16/2012 12:27 PM PDT
90 Pandaren Shaman
HC
9325
Consider adds on heroic rag - if they hit you on 25-man, you're dead, they hit for over 1 million. If they hit you on 10-man, it kind of tickles as they hit you for 20-40k.


thats 10-man reg.

If you got hit by a stacked up 10mH add, its pretty much a one shot.
Edited by Eein on 4/16/2012 12:26 PM PDT
90 Blood Elf Death Knight
14560
Please make adjustments to the more important issue of Garrosh's pants.

Thank you.
90 Night Elf Death Knight
7235
Every single time Blizzard has changed the number of raiders, or how raid sizes correspond to lockouts etc., someone has touted that it will kill "this or that." Every single time, they have been wrong.
58 Orc Death Knight
100
Uglysticks sort of happy with Zarhym for response.

Anger levels depleted.
90 Undead Priest
10310
04/16/2012 12:18 PMPosted by Applemask
The problem is that you post garbage =/, there is nothing here to get. You told me a story about 25 mans even though I was there. You told me a story about people getting the staft? Okay. Then you cried about 10v25s and gear, which is not relevant at all. What you never did was describe why it is Blizzards responsibility to save 25 man raiding.


I did, you weren't paying attention, or you didn't care.

I said, as I've said this whole, if Blizzard took it upon themselves to change the climate in such a way as it hindered 25 mans ability to function then it is responsible for that action, and is capable of reversing it if they so choose. How do you not understand that?

"As far as you're concerned it'd be ok if 5 mans dropped top progression gear. Did you not say this?"

No, I never said this. So at least we have covered that you don't even know what I have said, kind of negating this entire process. Instead of just winding on endlessly with absolutely no substance at all just answer this ONE question, with ONE sentence


Ha! nope, doesn't work that way, I asked to clarify and you have. It negates NOTHING.

You want your questions answered in one sentence because you cannot process the complexities of the situation and you need it spoon-fed to you in a simple one sentence answer. Such a request further highlights what I already knew. You have no interest in constructive debate, nor any regard for the complexities of the subject matter being discussed. You see it in your own subjective black and white terms, you said it yourself, did you not?
90 Draenei Shaman
13685
04/16/2012 12:24 PMPosted by Xario
I still stand behind 10 mans being tougher.25 mans is like handing out loot. It is for the lazy to be honest. The hardest thing about it is getting people togather.10 mans>25 mans in skill.So just kill off 25 mans.


Did you not read any of my posts?
If you believe that, you haven't experienced any of the content in Tier 13 on both difficulties.
There are 3 fights that are significantly harder on each difficulty with 2 fights that are onpar with each other.
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