An Honest Recommendation to Those New to PvP

Hello players, new and old. My intent with this thread is to inform new players of the current state of PvP which they will likely face in World of Warcraft, as of the current expansion, Cataclysm. It is my sincere hope that this will be seen as an informative warning for those who have yet to try and experience PvP in World of Warcraft regardless of level, and should their views be different, that they will still have the knowledge I hope to give them.

I would also like to link this blog by Blizzard regarding advice from the community regarding PvP to further grant knowledge to the ever expanding player base: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/blog/2162597#blog

The Current State of Player Versus Player In World of Warcraft

Currently, success is widely based on the equipment you're wearing. Skill with your class of choice and knowledge of how it fits into PvP is important, but not as much as the statistics your equipment grants you. It is an unfortunate downside to the current system, but it can be overcome with time and practice. To that end, I would like to make my main point in this presentation. I honestly recommend that you avoid PvP until you've reached level 85.The Main Problem That May Ruin Your Experience

They're known as Heirlooms. Unique items purchased from a vendor via forms of currency, Honor and Justice Points, Darkmoon Faire tickets, as well as Champion's Seals and for one item, a fishing contest held in Booty Bay. The former is earned in set values by engaging in nearly any PvP activity from defeating enemy players to completing Battleground objectives. The latter is earned in PvE content from instances by defeating bosses, or via a reward for a completed instance. These two currencies can be converted into the other at a rate of 375 to 250.

Players who've been around for a while will likely have purchased Heirloom items due to how the value of Honor and Justice Points lowers significantly when all items relevant to your progress in the game have been purchased and used. Aside from trade goods one can purchase with either currency from a vendor added recently, they still tend to accumulate fairly rapidly. This, along with the immense benefits of their use, attributes to several veteran players having characters equipped with Heirlooms.

What are these benefits? They're far more significant the lower level a character is. They are roughly equivalent to a level appropriate piece of equipment of "rare" value, which will have its name colored dark blue. However, often these items are even better in quality than that, so as to be relevant throughout their use. In addition, these items are the only ones which "level up" with the player, gaining higher stat values until their individual level cap. They also grant additional experience from all sources, which is why they're valued as a method of quickly leveling new characters for players who've been there and done that.

However, the stats in the earlier portion of the game are well above and beyond anything possible to find via questing. Heirlooms also come in a variety of equipment slots that players won't find items for until they reach a higher level, namely the head and trinket equipment slots. Lastly, Heirlooms provide stats of high value that are normally unavailable until the player reaches a higher level, such as Critical Strike Rating. If exclusive to PvE content, these items would have little to no consequence. Unfortunately, these items are more often used solely for an advantage in PvP over players without them.

How Bad Is It, Exactly?

Heirlooms are typically enchanted with powerful enchantments from end game content of the "classic" World of Warcraft era, before any expansions had been released. You can see how a level 10 player with an item imbued with an enchantment meant for level 60 players is excessively powerful. Luckily, Blizzard has prevented stronger enchantments from being abused by forcing the item level of Heirlooms to remain at 1 no matter what. The problem still persists, however, and it leads to many players without these items being killed quickly.

Normally, a kill executed with finesse by an enemy player might even be respected. However, versus an enemy with Heirlooms where you're without, the difference is astronomical. Those without Heirlooms typically fall in under five seconds when confronting someone who has them, if they aren't defeated in a single hit. You read correctly, sometimes it only takes a single hit, even from a player lower in level than you. This problem runs rampant in Battlegrounds until around level 60, but by then the players using Heirlooms have switched to classic PvP sets of Epic quality, with names colored purple.
Edited by Investment on 4/16/2012 11:53 AM PDT
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With Heirlooms No Longer Very Effective, What Happens Then?

Oddly enough, classes are still able to defeat one another in under five seconds, and still within a single hit in the right environment. However, the saving grace here is that the equipment is available easily to any and all players save Death Knights. Still, if your idea of enjoyable PvP is a battle where no one person may easily overpower another, you will be disappointed. If you're an opportunist and enjoy quick and decisive battles that may go either way, then this is your nirvana.

At level 60, 70 and 80, players are able to use Honor Points to purchase PvP specific equipment. Except for the level 60 sets, these feature a statistic you may not have seen before, Resilience. This stat reduces damage only from players and their pets or minions. This is the point at which the problem slowly starts to fade away, though it does not do so instantly. Despite there being easily gained equipment with Resilience for every class, the offensive statistics go up higher as well, which is why the problem only fades slowly.

So, What If I Want the Best Possible Experience?

I can't speak for everyone, as we all have different tastes and preferences. However, what I personally recommend is that you wait until level 85 to experience PvP in an enjoyable manner. That isn't without some exceptions. PvP during what's called a Call to Arms weekend at any level can benefit you greatly with immense amounts of Honor Points and XP. Despite the several negative aspects of PvP before 50+, you would do well to participate for the exceptional benefits during this time only. Lastly, I recommend that you purchase the Rare quality "Vicious" equipment available to your class and talents to be competitive with veteran players who are likely using high tier PvP equipment.Hopefully this will have been worth your time to read, and warned you of the problems in the current PvP environment. Things change drastically at 85 where composition of your team and communication are more prevalent and essential. Never be afraid, but always be cautious my friends.
Edited by Investment on 4/16/2012 11:45 AM PDT
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90 Night Elf Druid
12230
04/16/2012 11:34 AMPosted by Investment
Unique items purchased from a vendor via two forms of currency, Honor and Justice Points

...and Champion's Seals and Darkmoon Tickets and gold (guild reward helm/cloak) and weekly contests (Fishing Tournament ring).

04/16/2012 11:34 AMPosted by Investment
Lastly, Heirlooms provide stats of high value that are normally unavailable until the player reaches a higher level, such as Critical Strike Rating.

Critical Strike Rating appears as early as level 10, buddy.
http://www.wowhead.com/items?filter=sl=16:5:8:11:10:1:23:7:21:2:22:13:15:28:14:3:25:12:17:6;maxle=30;maxrl=10;cr=96;crs=1;crv=0;eb=1

I don't see much advice in this thread. Just a lot of complaining about heirlooms. If you want to make a suggestion about the game, you need to post in the General forum. Devs don't come here so your lamenting won't be seen by the right folks.

Yes, heirlooms tilt the battle in PvP. That's not news nor is it ground-breaking. Anyone can get heirlooms, though trial accounts can't get the helms and cloaks because those are guild rewards. Telling players to avoid PvP because you'll get your butt kicked early on is horrible advice.
Edited by Icedragon on 4/16/2012 11:50 AM PDT
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Allow me to try and address your points.

04/16/2012 11:43 AMPosted by Icedragon
Unique items purchased from a vendor via two forms of currency, Honor and Justice Points

...and Champion's Seals and Darkmoon Tickets and gold (guild reward helm/cloak) and weekly contests (Fishing Tournament ring).

I don't see much advice in this thread. Just a lot of complaining about heirlooms. If you want to make a suggestion about the game, you need to post in the General forum. Devs don't come here so your lamenting won't be seen by the right folks.

Yes, heirlooms tilt the battle in PvP. That's not news nor is it ground-breaking. Anyone can get heirlooms, though trial accounts can't get the helms and cloaks because those are guild rewards.


You're indeed correct regarding Heirloom acquisition, and I shall add that information into my post as soon as I am able. The advice should be clear: PvP before 85 is highly likely to be unenjoyable if you're not equipped with Heirlooms. I'd appreciate it if you didn't summarize my point to being just a complaint. I do not support how Heirlooms are currently used, but the focus here is to inform new players of what they are and how they can damage their PvP experience. I had no intention of this post being a lamentation of how woe is me to play against those in Heirlooms, though your idea about the Suggestions forum is noted, thank you. Anyone can earn Heirlooms, yes. However it is a tedious and lengthy task for those who have not reached level 85.

Thank you for your input.
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90 Night Elf Druid
12230
Your post could easily be summed up as such:

Heirlooms are the equivalent of blue items at each level. Their stats scale as you level up. This "eternal blue gear" effect leads to players with very high stats, which makes them very strong and gives them an advantage in combat against players and mobs. The playing field in battlegrounds more even at level 85 but you can earn heirlooms at any level from a variety of sources so you can get in on the stat boosts too.

That's it. No lamenting, no evident disdain for the current system, no ham-handed bias when conveying advice :)
Edited by Icedragon on 4/16/2012 11:55 AM PDT
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Though correct, the latter portion of your summary is vague. As I've mentioned in my earlier quote, is is a tedious and lengthy task for anyone without a level 85 character. It may be wrongly assumed that they can be easily acquired at any level. The irony is that you would have to engage in PvP where Heirlooms decide victory several times to earn them, which comes full circle to my point: PvP before 85 is highly likely to be unenjoyable if you're not equipped with Heirlooms.

However, I am willing to place your summary into my first post with full credit, if I may mention afterwards how the latter portion I drew into question isn't as simple a matter as you make it seem.

04/16/2012 11:54 AMPosted by Icedragon
That's it. No lamenting, no evident disdain for the current system, no ham-handed bias when conveying advice :)


I'd greatly appreciate it if you would avoid making comments like this. I do not support how Heirlooms are currently used in PvP, that much is true. However, my only intention here is to inform new players what they are, how they function, and why they may lead to a poor experience. If you choose to read it as something else, I believe that to be your business entirely.
Edited by Investment on 4/16/2012 12:02 PM PDT
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90 Night Elf Druid
12230
04/16/2012 11:58 AMPosted by Investment
As I've mentioned in my earlier quote, is is a tedious and lengthy task for anyone without a level 85 character. It may be wrongly assumed that they can be easily acquired at any level. The irony is that you would have to engage in PvP where Heirlooms decide victory several times to earn them

It's tedious, but so is grinding for them at the level cap. You can acquire them at any level and you don't have to engage in PvP to do it. You don't seem to be able to get past that bias, which is smearing your advice with things that aren't true.

I don't know what you're trying to accomplish with such a long-winded rant about how detrimental you think heirlooms are in PvP. It's not like this is going to stay on the front page for very long and anyone who comes across the thread is going to see the resulting discourse that shoots holes in several of your points.

YOU think heirlooms are bad and YOU don't like them, but that doesn't mean you should launch a campaign to paint all encounters involving heirlooms with such a broad brush. You completely neglect the severe class bias that's prevalent in pre-cap PvP. A warlock in full heirlooms doesn't stand a cold chance in hell against even the most mediocre hunter for many brackets.
Edited by Icedragon on 4/16/2012 12:07 PM PDT
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04/16/2012 11:50 AMPosted by Investment
The advice should be clear: PvP before 85 is highly likely to be unenjoyable if you're not equipped with Heirlooms.


This is extremely subjective.
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Tedious is a matter of perspective, I suppose. Justice Points can be easily acquired passively at 85 while running instances for equipment upgrades or even your weekly Valor Point cap. Personally, I only view times where you specifically grind Justice Points in several instance runs with nothing else to gain, solely to acquire Heirlooms, to be when it is tedious.

Darkmoon Faire tickets as an alternative can indeed be done at any level, but I don't believe you can earn enough to obtain more than one piece per month. Winning the fishing contest is nearly exclusive to higher level characters due to superior mobility and the level range required to avoid unwanted aggro from enemies in Northrend.

Aside from the Champion Seals, which are only available via several weeks of dailies in Icecrown, there are Honor Points, which can be converted into Justice Points to acquire Heirlooms of your preference. It is this method that is the most likely way players that aren't level 85 yet will be able to acquire them without excessive waiting. I don't believe that to be a bias, so much as fact. Having mentioned that the problem slowly fades at 70+ and players can acquire PvP sets at 60+, I don't see a legitimate reason why people would grind Heirlooms, or should to be specific, prior to those points. Especially when PvE questing content goes by so quickly now and they could level while likely enjoying the game.

Though I appreciate your help and input, your generalizations may be detrimental. It's akin to saying, "You can build your own car engine." True, but you're also leaving out the numerous complications and details involved, which I don't honestly appreciate. My apologies if I seem offensive or insulting.

Lastly, I would like for you to point out what I've said that isn't true so that I may appropriately fix it. Having several times said things such as "may" and "possibly" I want to ensure that I've never declared as fact: You will, for a fact, not enjoy PvP prior to 85 without Heirlooms, as we all have different tastes and preferences, which I've also said.

04/16/2012 12:20 PMPosted by Akosi
This is extremely subjective.


That is why I've phrased it with the word "likely." I will admit bias in that I assume players would not enjoy being unable to defend themselves against another player. Other than that, I have not, to my knowledge, declared it fact that you will not enjoy it. Only that it is highly likely. I apologize if I have lead you to misinterpret my point from poor phrasing.
Edited by Investment on 4/16/2012 12:22 PM PDT
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04/16/2012 12:04 PMPosted by Icedragon
YOU think heirlooms are bad and YOU don't like them, but that doesn't mean you should launch a campaign to paint all encounters involving heirlooms with such a broad brush. You completely neglect the severe class bias that's prevalent in pre-cap PvP. A warlock in full heirlooms doesn't stand a cold chance in hell against even the most mediocre hunter for many brackets.


My point isn't about class balance. Though another issue, I am focusing on how Heirlooms affect early level PvP.
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While I didn't enjoy the PVP component enough to do much more of it than the minimum required to do holiday achievements, I certainly would not advise folks to just "avoid" it until level cap if it's what they are going to enjoy doing. That's just - dumb. Someone has to be the guy or gal who grinds for hundreds of hours and studies like it's 1985 to learn how each and every class stacks up against each and every other, and for his PVP and heirloom gear, and if that's what you enjoy, it SHOULD be you. {<- tongue in cheek on the time and effort but seriously, it takes a lot of time and a lot of commitment to get good at it - it's not just wake up one day and get an heirloom or two and own the world, mwuhahahaha! }

And not playing at lower levels because of heirloom gear? I honestly had more trouble enjoying PVP at lower levels due to the fact that some classes especially early on get some very overpowering skills compared to others (or to be more precise, mine!!!!) than I did with the fact that some players had heirlooms.

Better players than I could kill me no problem... (Generally those with more experience, and who'd invested the time in learning how to do exploit their classes strengths and mine's weakenesses.)
Players with PVP gear could kill me no problem... (Translation, those that had invested the time in acquiring gear specifically for PVP - oh, and more experienced to boot.)
Players with heirloom gear could kill me no problem... (Translation, those that had invested the time in acquiring heirloom gear and had a lot more experience in general with the game than I, and generally, a lot more PVP experience too.)

Take away their heirlooms, take away their PVP gear, and guess what? They will still pwn just as easily due to the experience and the knowledge they've laboriously acquired of what to do when to counter what when it's this class versus that alone.

If you think you might enjoy PVP, don't let those of us who don't prefer it prejudice you against it! Sometimes it's hard to point out what you don't like about something without making it appear as though it's not worthwhile at all - and just because a dweeb like me didn't enjoy it doesn't mean you won't think it's the best thing since sliced bread.

If you haven't tried it and given it a good solid chance, you may never know how much you'd love it. And I'd say the same for all the portions of the game - irrespective of who enjoys it, and who does not.

<S>
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90 Night Elf Druid
12230
04/16/2012 12:20 PMPosted by Investment
Lastly, I would like for you to point out what I've said that isn't true so that I may appropriately fix it.


04/16/2012 11:34 AMPosted by Investment
Unique items purchased from a vendor via forms of currency, Honor and Justice Points, Darkmoon Faire tickets, as well as Champion's Seals and for one item, a fishing contest held in Booty Bay.

Wrong. It's from Northrend, not Booty Bay.

04/16/2012 11:34 AMPosted by Investment
However, the stats in the earlier portion of the game are well above and beyond anything possible to find via questing.

Wrong. Heirlooms have stats that are slightly above blues at any given level. It's not "well above and beyond" anything. Your hyperbole is an example of your heavy bias and lack of research.

04/16/2012 11:34 AMPosted by Investment
They also grant additional experience from all sources

Not all heirlooms do.

04/16/2012 11:34 AMPosted by Investment
Lastly, Heirlooms provide stats of high value that are normally unavailable until the player reaches a higher level, such as Critical Strike Rating.

Still wrong, as I pointed out in my first post.

04/16/2012 11:38 AMPosted by Investment
Lastly, I recommend that you purchase the Rare quality "Vicious" equipment available to your class and talents to be competitive with veteran players who are likely using high tier PvP equipment.

This is like telling someone to invest in a wet paper bag as armor against a woodchipper. The blue crafted sets aren't going to magically make you competitive with players who will readily stomp you to the ground.

04/16/2012 11:38 AMPosted by Investment
Things change drastically at 85 where composition of your team and communication are more prevalent and essential.

You make it sound like team composition and communication aren't relevant before the level cap when they clearly are. If anything your team composition matters MORE at lower levels because of the class bias that you still fail to mention. Your fear-mongering over heirlooms neglect the class bias, which is what more people whine about than heirlooms.
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90 Undead Warlock
7090
Not completely true about Darkmoon Faire.. You would have to grind pretty insanely to get heirlooms every month. Fairly casually, you can get one the second month, and probably another the third.

To me, that's enough to say that Heirlooms are quite simple to acquire even as a low level, and they significantly help level the playing field.

My issue is that your article (as others have already said) is completely about gear.. specifically Heirlooms. This could all be said in one paragraph. How about technique? Tactics? How to gear up quickly with Honor gear? etc etc..

There are so many more things to explain.
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04/16/2012 12:20 PMPosted by Investment
That is why I've phrased it with the word "likely." I will admit bias in that I assume players would not enjoy being unable to defend themselves against another player. Other than that, I have not, to my knowledge, declared it fact that you will not enjoy it. Only that it is highly likely. I apologize if I have lead you to misinterpret my point from poor phrasing.


No you've just generalized and made assumptions. Something that you're condemning Icedragon of doing. Having Heirlooms isn't the win button that you make it out to be.
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04/16/2012 12:32 PMPosted by Screwlewse
You would have to grind pretty insanely to get heirlooms every month.


How do BG's compare to questing/dungeoning for generating gold? I ask because one way to more easily acquire heirlooms via Darkmoon Faire would be to buy the quest items on the AH that either didn't drop for you during the month (or that dropped in dungeons if you only do BG's or weren't lucky with the RNG) - which of course is only practical if you make enough gold to afford them on the AH. On my server they aren't too bad - for a level 85 that plays the AH a bit.

But leveling? I laugh a hearty belly laugh. I would have considered them astronomical - well beyond anything I could have afforded - while leveling.

Still, it's not much of a grind at all (especially compared to other things!) if you win/can afford to buy all the turn in items (excluding the 2 level 85 ones) and do all the dailies each day as well as the 2 professions, and fishing/cooking/first aid each month - you can generate enough tickets to buy a piece of armor each month indefinitely. (I'm assuming that most leveling players won't qualify for archeology, but if they do, it's another 3 tickets per month.) The most time consuming part (I hesitate to refer to it as a grind) would be finishing Test of Strength in time to turn it in before the Faire ends, so you don't end up losing the opportunity to do it again next month after turning in "this month's" quest if you didn't finish it before the Faire ends.

An heirloom weapon on the other hand will cost you enough tickets to require 2 month's worth of effort. For me, that would be killer - not buying a piece of armor I could buy now and waiting a WHOLE MONTH * for the chance to buy a better weapon? Talk about discipline! {grin}

<S>

* I know, at that point it's really only 3 weeks, but it would seem like a year anyway!
Edited by Sylth on 4/16/2012 1:21 PM PDT
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90 Troll Mage
12990
04/16/2012 11:34 AMPosted by Investment
Heirlooms are typically enchanted with powerful enchantments from end game content of the "classic" World of Warcraft era, before any expansions had been released. You can see how a level 10 player with an item imbued with an enchantment meant for level 60 players is excessively powerful. Luckily, Blizzard has prevented stronger enchantments from being abused by forcing the item level of Heirlooms to remain at 1 no matter what. The problem still persists, however, and it leads to many players without these items being killed quickly.
These enchants are available to any player that can access trade or auction house. Probably not worth getting if you plan on leveling, but still they are available to all non-trial accounts just hte same.
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20 Tauren Druid
0
04/16/2012 11:34 AMPosted by Investment
Heirlooms also come in a variety of equipment slots that players won't find items for until they reach a higher level, namely the head and trinket equipment slots.


04/16/2012 11:38 AMPosted by Investment
However, what I personally recommend is that you wait until level 85 to experience PvP in an enjoyable manner.


Wait a sec.... so because it's harder to find a replacement for a few of the heirlooms in brackets like 10-14 and 15-19 you're supposed to wait till level 85? I'm sorry but that doesn't really make any sense.

04/16/2012 11:34 AMPosted by Investment
However, versus an enemy with Heirlooms where you're without, the difference is astronomical.


The difference between Heirlooms and blue items of the same level is not "astronomical." Any difference you feel is usually due to the enchantments placed on the heirlooms, which could technically be placed on any item... you'd just have to replace the enchant in a few levels when you replaced the slot.

I'm a frequent PvPer and I see this argument a lot, and I disagree with it every time. Heirlooms are not a magical win all card like everyone seems to think they are. They are merely convenient, and can be overcome by people who put some effort into their gear. It also takes effort to get an heirloom, so it's a pretty fair trade. If heirlooms did not exist, new players would face the same problem from players that ground up gear for the shear pleasure of dominating in pvp. The only difference is how many slots they have to work at and how often they have to do it to stay competitive.

04/16/2012 11:34 AMPosted by Investment
However, the stats in the earlier portion of the game are well above and beyond anything possible to find via questing.


Ok lets look:
Stained Shadowcraft Cap at level 20 has 7 agil, 11 stam, 4 hit, and 4 critical strike (also 94 armor).
Comparative ally quest item at lvl 20: Rifle Commander's Eyepatch 8 agil, 10 stam, 8 hit (110 armor).

... so one agil more, one stam less, and trade 4 crit for 4 hit rating.

"Well above" huh? This is just one example, but it's not isolated. The gear is there in many cases, all you have to do is go look for it.

This is why I dislike posts like this: you're discussing a hurdle to PvP at low levels which you evidently don't know much about and not giving people any option of overcoming it, when they definitely can. As a frequent PvPer I can say with certainty that by gearing up every few levels you can reach or surpass the gear attained by people using heirlooms, primarily because people who are using heirlooms level very quickly and due to this often neglect to update their other non-heirloom slots, wearing gear 20 or 30 levels under them. While I agree that this is a difficult gap to overcome at very low levels, I would never tell someone to avoid PvP until level cap if it is something they're interested in pursuing. New Player Help is about giving people the information they need to do what they want to do, not telling them what they should do based on your personal opinion.

You're also vastly oversimplifying pre-85 pvp gear. At level 60 the PvP sets become available, at 75 the problem is no longer heirlooms but cata gear roflstomping everyone, and after 80 anyone still wearing heirlooms is going to get it handed to them. I'll credit it you for at least mentioning the 60 sets, but then why tell people not to PvP? All you're doing is suggesting they wait until the level at which people are most competitive and have the biggest edge on newcomers, and that they arrive there with 0 honor and 0 PvP experience. Which makes no sense to me.

Gear is a factor in PvP at any level, but just because players who have been around longer can gear their toons a little easier due to past effort does not prevent new players from doing the same. Please refrain from making generalizations and recommendations to new players based on your personal bias and chosen method of play (ie; avoiding low level pvp).
Edited by Tkatii on 4/16/2012 4:37 PM PDT
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90 Human Mage
10430
04/16/2012 11:50 AMPosted by Investment
Anyone can earn Heirlooms, yes. However it is a tedious and lengthy task for those who have not reached level 85.


As it should be. In fact, if it were up to me, the heirlooms would go back to being inaccessible to low level players entirely. They were meant for people who had done their grind to 80 and were a reward so they could level up more characters quickly. It blows my mind that you can get heirlooms at a low level at all. It better be a tedious and lengthy task for you to get them.

Nobody cares about "fixing" low level PvP except for trial accounts. If you have a paid account and are playing in a 20 bracket, it's because you enjoy it. PvP has and always will be the ugly stepsister to PvE, and Blizzard has no visible intentions on making the low level PvP experience better for people who don't pay for the game.
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
9865
I can see Investments point would hate to be new player at this game and try and pvp.

Given how fast levelling is even without heirlooms, its hard to keep your gear current and competitive and who really wants to burn all that time up just so they can break even, or even worse do what Tkatii says and actively research loot you need. Then in a level or twos time be falling behind again, stack all of this on top of trying to work out your class/spec/stats, just seems like pvp wouldnt be worth it.

Its gotta be discouraging to brand new players.
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56 Orc Mage
6055
Though I would recommend to someone new to the game to skip pvp until level 33 or so. I would not say skip it until 85.
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