Changes to Inactive Guild Leader Replacement

90 Draenei Hunter
12755
This is a good idea; however, there are some situations that are totally uncalled for when the Founding GM HAS to be away for a while!
Example, I am the Founding GM of DAK, I had to be away from the game for a while to care for my father with stage 4 terminal cancer. I purchased all the bank tabs, and stocked them, as well as had over 2k in GB for repairs. I was trying to build the guild. When that time was up for me, they handed control of my guild over to a 12 year old boy! This new "GM" has taken every ounce of gold out of the GB, and has taken a LOT of what I built up myself in there. When asked if I could please get control over my guild again, he ignores me! I can't get anything out of my own GB!!!!! He is barely on, MAYBE once a month, and the other players are dormant! I myself have gotten the guild to level a whopping level 7.

I submitted a ticket regarding it and was told that they "investigated" my complaint and wrote this: "I do apologize for any inconvenience this may cause, but please know we always try to encourage continued guild growth, and in this circumstance, new leadership was necessary to facilitate that."

Well, if you did your research, then you would see that NOBODY has joined the guild since I brought them in BEFORE I had to take care of my father! You would have also found that this child is only on every couple of weeks for a couple hours at a time. You would have also found that nobody else in the guild is active! And you want to claim what??? This kid doesn't try to recruit... yes, a 12 year old kid!

And you want me to continue to pay for what and buy a new game now?? pfff
wahhh, my gm has been gone for the 90 days, I go to dethrone him only to get told I don't have permission to do that. This guild, at the most, has only two people online at a time, me and my girlfriend. We'd hate to see a perfectly fine level 25 guild go to waste since we aren't allowed to do anything.
60 Tauren Death Knight
6290
I was sold a level 15 guild just 3 weeks ago and now it's level 25 and it doesn't take but a couple of hours now to get honored rep so I think that pretty much solves this whole crisis. Just move on. Maybe even buy a mid level guild. If you have even a 3 man core you'll have your new guild up an running in no time. The new policy of not letting a guild master lose his guild for inactivity if he sets the ranks up a certain way added to the new fast leveling of guilds and guild rep is the perfect solution to this whole problem.

Sure it doesn't solve ever inconvenience, but it promotes justice for all, and that's more important than convenience for many.
My guild master moved our guild to a different realm. I logged in and it says i have started the guild. This is fine with me. It was his guild and going to waste. However I am exhalted with it on 3 toons. After 90, its hard to get rep with a new guild.

By my own play I have the guild back to lvl 4. My rank is crap. I am never going to get control of the bank (empty). even if I single-handedly get it back to 25.

This sort of sucks.
90 Draenei Shaman
10040
Baddesign, who is the gm of the left-behind guild? But you're right in that if you are low rank, you'll never get your hands on the guild through guild dethrone.

Remember, guild rep really is not that valuable. Buy up everything guild-rep related that you want, so if you decide to move on, or get kicked, you have what you can get from guild rep.

If you know where the gm moved to, perhaps start a toon on that realm, try to talk to the old gm and ask for the guild left behind, if you are the main one left active. It's pretty likely that the old gm left one of his/her own toons as gm of your guild.

Otherwise, you might want to move on. Good luck.
Little late for all those who got screwed with personal guilds don't you think? Or does Blizzard plan on reverting the transfers that should NEVER have happened in the first place?
84 Human Paladin
4050
In my situation, YES... it is hard to log in once in 3 months ... (I was deployed to Afganistan). during my absence, the assistant GM took over. Is there any way to get my guild back, now that my deployment is over ?
90 Human Warlock
4315
Welcome back. Glad to know your safe and thanks for your time serving our country.

Did you update your guild info saying you'd be gone 6-15 months?
90 Tauren Druid
7625
19 pages and still no answer on when/if rank 5 can take the guild.

On an unrelated note, my boss took a few months off from work, I couldn't get a raise because he was gone, so I just took over the company. Pretty neat trick.

I don't know what exactly you think a GM needs to be doing that the officers can't do that would require the transfer of guild ownership. But whatever it is, !@#$ you! If you need something that my officers can't provide, then too bad, I wouldn't give it to you either. I've been the GM of this guild since 10/24/2006, every swinging Richard in the guild was invited with an addon called "Super guild invite" that just invites anyone without a guild tag. The officers can remove/promote people, everyone can invite new members, guild repairs are turned on for everyone, and the bank has open tabs for everyone to use. What the hell else do you want?
90 Draenei Shaman
10040
Hurst, I'm not sure what your problem is. Perhaps you never really knew the rules, because for all those years when you owned your guild, if you had been absent for one month (ONE!) any guildie (ANY!) could have petitioned a gm to take over your guild. Then it was changed to be automated, any guildie would be OFFERED your guild if you were gone for one month. Now it takes 3 months, and only top ranked guildies can dethrone. This protects gm's who want absolute control forever no matter what (like you) while allowing options for gm's to ensure a chain of command if (like me) they want to ensure the vitality of the guild as a whole if life takes the gm out of game.

My only request for further changes would be 1) the highest rank below gm would have first dibs on the guild and 2) it goes back to one month.
Edited by Nebliina on 11/3/2012 8:55 AM PDT
85 Worgen Warlock
12600
So a guild on Garona has died off. The GM has been gone for 3 months and ALL the Officers have been gone as long if not longer(some even a year). I'm not a greedy person but I have a toon in the guild that has spent time in there and has put in some effort towards the guild. I completely understand why only an officer or higher can take control of a guild IF one has been on. but none has. So the guild is dead(bank has been stripped clean, by people before leaving the guild, of all mats possible) and now I want to take over and because I was not promoted to a rank I can't do anything with the guild even though noone else is around to do so. Think maybe this should be changed that if all leading ranks are gone SOMEONE should be able to do something to keep the guild somewhat active/alive.
Part 1:

First, the notion of "guild dethroning" under any circumstances not involving the knowledge and consent of a still-subscribing GM is of extraordinarily questionable ethical propriety, particularly for a public corporation.

Using the same logic of the guild transfer "system" Bliz has now put in place, to be consistent Blizzard must also randomly allow any player to lay claim to the contents of the personal bank(s), gold and bags of any other players who have been offline for more than 90 days, but who are still paying subscribers. Or at least allow any players who are in Ranks 1-4 of their guilds to lay such claims on other guild members' assets.

Let me see a show of hands for all players who feel the same standard upon which this system of "guild dethroning" is based should be applied to their own personal accounts...?

A guild is an asset, which is to say it is no different in any way from the contents of currently subscribing players' personal banks, gold, bags and mail contents. Especially in cases of Level 25 guilds, a Guild is usually worth far more than the value of the sum of its contents and gold. Lvl 25 guilds can easily sell in-game for 250,000g-300,000g--which at average gold-selling website prices is the equivalent of approximately $250-$300 in cash.

I agree with the sentiment that an absentee GM is frustrating to other Guild Members. In addition, I agree that some rational and fair system of transferring such a guild to control of another guild member is appropriate. My point is simply this: Virtually no player would agree the system just implemented by Bliz should be applied to the assets of their accounts.

So, if you don't consider this a rational and fair system by which Blizzard has the right to control your account and your hard-won assets, why would it be appropriate for another player's assets? Ah, but this is a "guild," or so the argument goes. Different rules should apply to guilds, even though they may well have significant value, including but not limited to hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions in gold, or hundreds, perhaps thousands, of dollars in cash, to the player who formed it, has run it, built it, and owns it. That's right, "owns it." Exactly like you own everything in your account.

At the heart of Blizzard's system (and let me emphasize again it is this system, not the notion of transferring guilds, which I am addressing) of "guild dethroning" is one, and only one, plain and simple assumption: A guild is nothing more than an idea a Bliz employee came up with prior to the release of Cataclysm. A concept...an artificial construct of no value to individual players whatsoever. As it is of no value to individual players whatsoever, Bliz has concluded guilds belong to them, and not to players. Therefore, guilds may be removed from the personal account of any player, without consultation, the knowledge or consent of said player, and disposed of by any means if and when Bliz deems fit. In this system, it may be disposed of after 90 days of player inactivity, to the first other guild member who logs on and sees the message the guild is now up for grabs. Understand, most guilds only have six to seven levels of membership, so it is likely only new recruits, leveling alts, and players new to the game would not qualify.
Edited by Coye on 11/13/2012 3:45 AM PST
Part 2:

Consider this: If the GM is the equivalent of the President of the United States, then Rank 2 would be equivalent to Governors of the states. Rank 3 would be equivalent to mayors of cities and towns. And Rank 4??? Rank 4 is the equivalent of heads of households. So the new system just implemented by Bliz now has it set up, from an equivalent social, governmental and financial standpoint, that the first head of household (by odds Rank 4 has the most toons in it) to log on their computer that fateful day can choose to be the WoW equivalent of President of the United States, with personal rights to all the country's assets, personal control over other citizens, and personal control over how you play the game. If you don't like it, you can always leave the country and start over in another. And, the odds are extremely remote it will be you, even if you have been second or third in command since inception of the game or are 100 times as active a player.

Seriously, is this really the "system" by which you want to see your guild leadership change?!

Yes, we all want "a" system for transfers of guild leadership in the event of absentee GMs. We all want that because Blizzard has now built so much value into the ownership--not leadership, but ownership--of guilds in the game. And by value I mean not just value measured by gold or dollars, but value measured by ownership and control. If the standard for transferring guilds was leadership, then only a system by which a leader from Rank 2, or such other member as Rank 2 players appoint, could possibly succeed to the "throne."

But that, or any similarly rational, fair, and democratic system is apparently too complex for Activision Blizzard Corporation to devise. Hence, the least rational, least fair, and by every standard imaginable, least democratic form of transfer is now in place: random selection.

Imho, if there is any "system" of guild leadership by which a guild is guaranteed to disintegrate into obscurity, it is the system Blizzard has now implemented. Whether after 30 days or 90 days is actually irrelevant to the random outcome of the transfer. So, all of you game forum activists who have prayed for change in the manner of transfers, think long and hard about how your prayers have been answered. You lobbied heavily for change, and Bliz has "listened," or so they say.

But, who have they listened to? Have they listened to those who hope for at least a random shot at potentially pwning very valuable guilds, or to those who hoped for a more logical, well-conceived, and perhaps even democratically-oriented change in leadership? Guild leaders (and by Guild Leaders I mean governing committees as well as co-GMs), you will almost certainly lose ownership/control. In the absence of guild leadership committees gleaning the toons in Ranks 2-4 to the one person they want to succeed in the event of loss of the GM, Bliz has rather absentmindedly set in motion the single most guild-destructive means of transfer of guild ownership/leadership possible.

To the current leadership committees of guilds, those of you who have invested your hearts, minds, values, ethics, time, and attitudes towards direction, raiding, drama, maturity, and most importantly, the personality of your guild, I ask: Is the system Bliz has now announced, which I would call, "Random Change in Ownership, but Absolutely NO Control Over Change in Leadership," truly what you want?
Edited by Coye on 11/13/2012 4:05 AM PST
90 Human Paladin
4820
I am the only level 90 and i still can not dethrone my GM. I have the most activity over all as well. Nobody ever gets on any more to do any thing with the guild, So is it possible to make me GM even though i am not ranked high enough.
In a word, "No." Under Bliz's currently announced system, it is not possible to make you GM because you are not ranked high enough to qualify. Your guild will forever remain under the control of either: (a) no one, or (b) a ranking member who does log on at some indeterminate time in the future.
90 Draenei Shaman
10040
I'm gonna disagree that a guild is primarily an asset exactly like the contents of a player's own bank. A guild is a community of people who contribute their time and goods for the prosperity of the guild. They have a shared interest in the guild, and in my opinion should generally have a shared sense of ownership. It's beyond me how you can compare gm dethroning in an inactive guild by a member of that guild, to going into another player's personal bank and taking the contents.

And.....please show me where ON YOUR ACCOUNT does it list that you own a guild? To be honest, you don't even own your characters. Read the tos you sign regularly if you don't believe me. You and me are both renters in this game. The true owner, Blizzard, has total control. Funny isn't it.....it's very similar to the kind of control you believe you should have over your guild.
90 Night Elf Death Knight
9025
well some ppl have stuff come up and can't play R/L over the !@#$ing game. only a %^-*ing Gnome would say something that !@#$ing stupid
90 Night Elf Druid
11120
The whole reason for the inactive guild master being dethroned was to keep a guild from dissolving in the absense of the GM. 90 days (1/4 of year in a game that just celebrated it's 8th birthday; another way of looking at it is it's about 1/8 the time an xpac is active) is too long to wait in a guild with a substantial roster where the GM has not been generous with access to the guild bank or inviting; the guild will die in 90 days. I understand the gripe that the original 30 days and anyone could take over the guild made some people hot, but let;s consider what the guild is: a group of people. In an active guild with lots of people who don't know each other well and the GM really doesn't trust half the membership, the GM needs to make a 'bank alt' guild and put his/her personal stuff in it, not hold a guild with 200 members hostage if they take a vacation or start a toon on another server. If you know you are going to be gone and are the GM of guild of close knit friends, let someone else be GM for a while. This game has gone too far towards appeasing the greedy.

If there should be limits then perhaps it should be based on guild activity to prevent some nobody in the guild taking it over because they were the first person to log in the day the guild became available.
Edited by Whyowhyme on 11/25/2012 10:32 AM PST
90 Worgen Warrior
5045
Our old GM just disappeared. After saying he'd be playing more often. I think he was just disappointed in how the guild was developing into a leveling instead of a raiding guild. You all probably know how that is. The players get up to rank and just leave the guild. We've still got a list of his avatars, demoted to non-participant. Wherever you are Jeff, we'd love to have you back. I'm keeping the guild.
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