Blood Elves STAY Horde

90 Blood Elf Death Knight
9980
04/20/2012 07:46 AMPosted by Elenie
@Miss elf mage lady- It realy is a shame, I mean it seems like they should know by now about old Garry, seems like blizz just dropped the ball on bringing it up.


I really wish they'd bring him up more, but anyways...The Alliance isn't responsible for Garrithos' actions. He formed and led a, 'New Alliance,' according to wowpedia.org. The actual Alliance had no hand in that, nor the treatment of the Blood Elves as a result.


Wich may be why the blood elves didn't initialy become hostile to the alliance durring BC.
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85 Human Mage
4460
So he wasn't acting on behalf of the Alliance? Glad to see someone else suggesting that as a possibility.


WoWPedia is rarely inaccurate.

04/20/2012 07:48 AMPosted by Emmberr
Then why would Dalaran follow the orders of a guy who had no pull in the Alliance?


Because he had the strongest forces up there at the time? Because Dalaran itself was crippled and all but destroyed?

04/20/2012 07:49 AMPosted by Shaithiss
Wich may be why the blood elves didn't initialy become hostile to the alliance durring BC.


That'd be my guess as well.
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90 Human Paladin
9055
So he wasn't acting on behalf of the Alliance? Glad to see someone else suggesting that as a possibility.


There wasn't any Alliance left to act on the behalf of. Every other Alliance nation was south, past the Thandol Span, too far away to wait for orders.
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85 Troll Druid
2945
04/20/2012 06:13 AMPosted by Desidarias
They will stay horde. Alliance folk just want the nostalgic high elves from WC2/3.


The Tolkien effect, people feel very distraught if humans aren't accompanied by both beer guzzling, Axe wielding Dwarves who live beneath the earth or Pointy eared "perfect human" of the magical variety (Night elves don't count, because they're Purple and nature loving).

No, Highelves were a mistake, or at least their warcraft 2's concept of them.. the sheer definition of "Common fantasy setting". Blizzard may have been less original but at least today they try and "Mix things up". this is why I hated how the blood elves were "Saved".. a magically vampirirc, Graceful and arrogant yet with a subtle sense of dark savagery and malice within, this is what the "high elves" should have been and should have always been.. even now the "We were best buds with humans once and bred with them, hey look a high elf in Stormwind lol" still scars their story.
Sure, stay Horde.How are them Orcs treating you, buddy?

Or, they don't pay attention to you, you say? They're a bit racist when they do? Even Garrosh talks down to you?
Garrosh be mistreat'n everyone mon.
Edited by Onimontu on 4/20/2012 8:11 AM PDT
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90 Orc Warrior
10290
04/20/2012 07:40 AMPosted by Sternbridge
If anything The Horde should get more blood elves.


Alleria Windrunner could be returned as a Blood Elf!


Hell no.

This would be bad for both the Alliance and Horde players.

For the Alliance because it would be a massive derailment of character for one their most iconic heroines (if not THE most iconic heroine)

For the Horde.....well for me anyway the only interaction I want with Alleria Windrunner is standing over corpse and smiling as I loot.
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85 Human Mage
4460
The Tolkien effect, people feel very distraught if humans aren't accompanied by both beer guzzling, Axe wielding Dwarves who live beneath the earth or Pointy eared "perfect human" of the magical variety (Night elves don't count, because they're Purple and nature loving).

No, Highelves were a mistake, or at least their warcraft 2's concept of them.. the sheer definition of "Common fantasy setting". Blizzard may have been less original but at least today they try and "Mix things up". this is why I hated how the blood elves were "Saved".. a magically vampirirc, Graceful and arrogant yet with a subtle sense of dark savagery and malice within, this is what the "high elves" should have been and should have always been.. even now the "We were best buds with humans once and bred with them, hey look a high elf in Stormwind lol" still scars their story.


In that case, leaving the trolls with the Horde was as much of a mistake. Everyone wants to see the big, hulking orcish warriors accompanied by their troll friends who throw axes and make a good counterpoint to Elves with humans.

See where I'm getting at? Your perception, your reasoning, has valid points, but it only enforces a, 'Double Standard.'

The Blood Elves should have remained Alliance, their fel addiction included (in fact, that's all the more reason I'd want them as Alliance). It would have provided a very high degree of dark to the otherwise almost pure-white the Alliance has been. The internal conflict and rivalry between them and the Night Elves could have been legendary. They had far more races to relate to and interact with (not always on a happy note) than in the Horde. Their fall from grace would have -forced- the Alliance to re-evaluate how they look at things, seeing how they survived near extinction through committing less than honorable deeds.

Instead they got shipped off to the Horde to give it a pretty race and make it look even darker (seriously, the Horde didn't need that, it has the Forsaken).
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
17170
04/20/2012 06:26 AMPosted by Elenie
It'd be like, if the Darkspear were Alliance, and not Horde. That's a fairly good comparison to the strangeness of the feeling.


You can have them, I want the Amani back to us.
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
0
Eh, people just overestimate the loyalty the Elves ever had with the Alliance to begin with.

They didn't WANT to be a part of the Alliance and their war. They wanted nothing to do with the brutish Humans, dirty Dwarves, and rat-like gnomes. They only agreed to it when Lothar pulled out an ancient IOU they had with his bloodline - once that was done, they jumped ship like it was on fire.

Yeah, you had a few veterans and objectors who stayed on, but ONLY a few, and even fewer still after Garithos' antics.
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85 Human Paladin
6280
04/20/2012 08:31 AMPosted by Faeria
It'd be like, if the Darkspear were Alliance, and not Horde. That's a fairly good comparison to the strangeness of the feeling.


You can have them, I want the Amani back to us.


You know you're a Blood Elf... right?
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85 Troll Druid
2945
04/20/2012 08:22 AMPosted by Elenie
In that case, leaving the trolls with the Horde was as much of a mistake. Everyone wants to see the big, hulking orcish warriors accompanied by their troll friends who throw axes and make a good counterpoint to Elves with humans.


Trolls are one of WoW's most original races, other than minor classic physical tributes(long years, pointy noes, Nordic troll concept) they are almost entirely different than the common fantasy standard. Yes Trolls are generally associated with Orcs, specifically in Tolkiens works as dull or dimwitted packmauls. Name aside trolls aren't a common trope with orcs, They could just have easily fit with the alliance if blizzard didn't make the alliance so.. unloving towards their species.

04/20/2012 08:22 AMPosted by Elenie
See where I'm getting at? Your perception, your reasoning, has valid points, but it only enforces a, 'Double Standard.'
but it's not a double standard, trolls aren't a common Tolkienesqe trope.. the Tauren have more in common and feel far closer to Orcs than trolls, it isn't the same factor and isn't as deep rooted in the tolkien effect. If Trolls were more like ogres than I would be supporting a double standard, however given their originality I find it far from.

To say the truth I would have no qualms with being a troll for the alliance as long as I'm not harassed by night elves and humans just because of past wars (Hey just look at the blood elves).
04/20/2012 08:22 AMPosted by Elenie
The Blood Elves should have remained Alliance, their fel addiction included (in fact, that's all the more reason I'd want them as Alliance). It would have provided a very high degree of dark to the otherwise almost pure-white the Alliance has been. The internal conflict and rivalry between them and the Night Elves could have been legendary. They had far more races to relate to and interact with (not always on a happy note) than in the Horde. Their fall from grace would have -forced- the Alliance to re-evaluate how they look at things, seeing how they survived near extinction through committing less than honorable deeds.
Blizzard could have done the same thing with the horde, either way neither of us would achieve this desired effect due to blood elves currently in La la land with Draenei (Only unlike the Dranei they get a subtle showcase each expansion).

After much questioning on MG, people simply want high elves on the alliance because it "Feels right" (Tolkien effect). This is reinforced with knaaks Wafuu scenarios in his books between his "gorgeous high elf wife".. Fantasy nerds are into elf/human relationships and night elves just aren't "Elf looking" enough for them to pull that off.
Edited by Onimontu on 4/20/2012 8:44 AM PDT
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90 Blood Elf Paladin
17170
04/20/2012 08:38 AMPosted by Desidarias
You know you're a Blood Elf... right?


I was talking about he said how would we feel if Alliance had the Darkspear, I don't care about skinny weak trolls, let us Have the Amani then.
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85 Human Paladin
6280
04/20/2012 08:42 AMPosted by Faeria
You know you're a Blood Elf... right?


I was talking about he said how would we feel if Alliance had the Darkspear, I don't care about skinny weak trolls, let us Have the Amani then.


Right but Blood Elves are the reason the Amani aren't in the horde anymore. The Thalasians and Amani Trolls have been fighting for thousands of years.
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90 Human Paladin
16860
04/20/2012 07:48 AMPosted by Bullcowsby
I really wish they'd bring him up more, but anyways...The Alliance isn't responsible for Garrithos' actions. He formed and led a, 'New Alliance,' according to wowpedia.org. The actual Alliance had no hand in that, nor the treatment of the Blood Elves as a result.


So he wasn't acting on behalf of the Alliance? Glad to see someone else suggesting that as a possibility.


It depends on how you look at it. Garithos was a legitimate Alliance leader, but his forces were autonomous (as the other Alliance leaders were either dead or not in contact with him). The same was true of Grand Admiral Proudmoore.

You don't just go around locking up former Dalaran members because some douche in a tabard says so. He obviously had some sort of authority.


In Cycle of Hatred, it was mentioned that Kristoff served as clerk to "Highlord Garithos" before the Third War. That title suggests Garithos was to Lordaeron as Bolvar was to Stormwind.

It was also mentioned that Kristoff's organizational skills had become legendary while he had that job. You need to be a pretty important guy for your clerk to become famous by association.

It's not unreasonable to assume the remnants of Lordaeron fell under Garithos' command because he was the highest-ranking authority figure left after Terenas and Uther died.

04/20/2012 07:52 AMPosted by Elenie
WoWPedia is rarely inaccurate.


In this case, it's somewhat misleading. The term "New Alliance" was used only once, in quotations, in an RPG book that predates the release of The Frozen Throne.

"Life itself seems to have no place in Lordaeron. Any who survived have fled to the south. The dwarves of Khaz Modan give refuge to some, helping them to defend high mountain valleys where they can harvest the food and timber they need in these dark times. Their numbers are small and the ranks of the undead are legion, but they struggle to survive nonetheless. They keep hope alive with stories passing among the people of a small band of human and elven warriors striking back at the undead. Nobody knows if these stories of a "New Alliance" are true, but as skeletons and acolytes are reported protecting crypts and necropolises in greater numbers, the people dream of a brighter future."
- Warcraft: The Roleplaying Game, page 214

The refugees described Garithos' force as a "New Alliance" because, as far as they knew, the Alliance had been entirely wiped out by the Scourge. In The Frozen Throne, Garithos' army was only ever referred to as "The Alliance".
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90 Tauren Druid
8945
04/20/2012 07:53 AMPosted by Sternbridge
So he wasn't acting on behalf of the Alliance? Glad to see someone else suggesting that as a possibility.


There wasn't any Alliance left to act on the behalf of. Every other Alliance nation was south, past the Thandol Span, too far away to wait for orders.


I said that because there is a tendency to use Garithos as an equivalent to "The Alliance". Hard to keep track of which it is - some posters argue one way, others the other.

It can't be both, though :/
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85 Human Mage
4460
The refugees described Garithos' force as a "New Alliance" because, as far as they knew, the Alliance had been entirely wiped out by the Scourge. In The Frozen Throne, Garithos' army was only ever referred to as "The Alliance".


Apparently they didn't think the Alliance had been wiped out as one see's Lordaeron refugees in Stormwind, such as Old Emma.

Likewise, the title, 'Highlord,' generally has a connect to the Church of the Holy Light. Tirion is a Highlord, for example. Bolvar was a Highlord. Garrithos was a self-proclaimed Grand Marshal, and he was acting on his own initiative.

If any man in Lordaeron was Terenas Menethil's Highlord, it would have been Uther, not Garrithos.
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90 Human Mage
16610
04/20/2012 06:13 AMPosted by Desidarias
They will stay horde. Alliance folk just want the nostalgic high elves from WC2/3.


Which we already have, in the form of the Silver Covenant and most of the inhabitants of Allerian Stronghold.
Edited by Gibbons on 4/20/2012 10:44 AM PDT
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85 Human Mage
4460
04/20/2012 10:53 AMPosted by Glovice
Garrithos was a self-proclaimed Grand Marshal, and he was acting on his own initiative.


Where does it say he was self-proclaimed?


Judging by the fact he was the leader of the remnants of the Alliance, and that he did nothing to face Arthas to stop him, one could infer that Garithos was a self-proclaimed Highlord. Indeed, one would think Kael'thas, Prince/King of Silvermoon and member of the Council of Six of Dalaran would have more authority than him.
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