Blood Elves STAY Horde

85 Worgen Rogue
13435
Don't worry.

The Team knows the rightful place of Blood Elves.
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85 Night Elf Warrior
3365
Blood elves shouldn't be horde.... in the Lore Blood elves were a part of the burning legion and it makes absolutely no sense that blood elves be horde. Kael Thas is the prince of the blood elves and yet Blood Elves can get together and kill him.... its stupid, the High Elves should be an alliance race and the Blood Elves should be unplayable. But aside from that Blizzard will not hesitate in giving the horde all of the coolest stuff, a race that shouldn't be there, more towns and towns that arn't tents and unfinished buildings inside of a stone wall ect. So long story short Blood elves will stay on the horde.
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85 Troll Druid
2945
04/20/2012 11:33 AMPosted by Malahinkie
Kael Thas is the prince of the blood elves and yet Blood Elves can get together and kill him
a king is only as powerful as his people allow him to be, Ovethrowing him over his power hungry antics was justified. Their only fault is that at some point in their history the sunstrider family made it illegal to make anyone who wasn't of their family king, which was sort of a short sighted idea but it's obvious kaels father was very concerned with the fact that Kael wasn't supplying him grandchildren.
04/20/2012 11:33 AMPosted by Malahinkie
the High Elves should be an alliance race and the Blood Elves should be unplayable. But aside from that Blizzard will not hesitate in giving the horde all of the coolest stuff, a race that shouldn't be there, more towns and towns that arn't tents and unfinished buildings inside of a stone wall ect. So long story short Blood elves will stay on the horde.


The high elves being an alliance race would have added another Cliche to the WoW list of cliches, At this point we should be celebrating the scarce amount of oriiginality WoW still has. There's a reason they are trying to make high elves extinct.
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100 Human Paladin
19615
04/20/2012 10:12 AMPosted by Elenie
Apparently they didn't think the Alliance had been wiped out as one see's Lordaeron refugees in Stormwind, such as Old Emma.


That passage was describing scattered refugees who huddled in mountain passes, not ones who made it all the way to Stormwind.

04/20/2012 10:12 AMPosted by Elenie
Likewise, the title, 'Highlord,' generally has a connect to the Church of the Holy Light. Tirion is a Highlord, for example. Bolvar was a Highlord. Garrithos was a self-proclaimed Grand Marshal, and he was acting on his own initiative.


"[Kristoff] had been the clerk to Highlord Garithos before the war, when his organizational skills had become legendary."
- Cycle of Hatred

In The Frozen Throne he's usually referred to as either "Lord Garithos" or "Grand Marshal Garithos", but there was no indication that any of those three titles were "self-proclaimed".

04/20/2012 11:14 AMPosted by Elenie
Judging by the fact he was the leader of the remnants of the Alliance, and that he did nothing to face Arthas to stop him, one could infer that Garithos was a self-proclaimed Highlord.


Garithos was trying to stop the Scourge (even though his army was horribly outmatched). He fought to retake Dalaran. He fought through Silverpine. He fought to retake Capital City.

Garithos' forces never had a chance to face Arthas (who was constantly on the move), and likely would have been wiped out if they had (like everyone else who fought Arthas), but that doesn't mean they weren't trying.
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100 Draenei Paladin
13800
04/20/2012 01:20 PMPosted by Emmberr
I still don't understand why people want Blood Elves neutral so much. If that happens, then we have to have an Alliance race turned neutral, and while taking a race from the Horde is fine, taking one from the Alliance is HOOORDDDEE BIAAAS


Sounds like projection.
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85 Orc Death Knight
2575
04/20/2012 12:14 PMPosted by Onimontu
Kael Thas is the prince of the blood elves and yet Blood Elves can get together and kill him
a king is only as powerful as his people allow him to be, Ovethrowing him over his power hungry antics was justified. Their only fault is that at some point in their history the sunstrider family made it illegal to make anyone who wasn't of their family king, which was sort of a short sighted idea but it's obvious kaels father was very concerned with the fact that Kael wasn't supplying him grandchildren.
the High Elves should be an alliance race and the Blood Elves should be unplayable. But aside from that Blizzard will not hesitate in giving the horde all of the coolest stuff, a race that shouldn't be there, more towns and towns that arn't tents and unfinished buildings inside of a stone wall ect. So long story short Blood elves will stay on the horde.


The high elves being an alliance race would have added another Cliche to the WoW list of cliches, At this point we should be celebrating the scarce amount of oriiginality WoW still has. There's a reason they are trying to make high elves extinct.


Basically, this. Having High Elves, Dwarves and Humans fighting Orcs, Trolls and Undead means WoW is just another generic fantasy story. Not that it isn't pretty close, but races like Draenei and Tauren help prevent that by being unique enough to upset the Tolkien balance of generic fantasy. As well as having the "Perfect and beautiful white Elven aristocrats" being on the same side as the Orcs. Who have also broken their trope by being more competent than their LOTR counterparts (ie, can tie their shoelaces).

Course, Varian is basically Aragorn, although his backstory is just plain terrible. But at least his completely retarded "Lo'gosh, avatar of the Wolf God he has nothing to do with at all" thing was a out of the trope. Which is the only nice thing I have to say about it.
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85 Human Paladin
6280
04/20/2012 12:14 PMPosted by Onimontu
Their only fault is that at some point in their history the sunstrider family made it illegal to make anyone who wasn't of their family king, which was sort of a short sighted idea but it's obvious kaels father was very concerned with the fact that Kael wasn't supplying him grandchildren.


Kael'thas had a thing for Jaina Proudmoor but she liked Arthas. One more time where the Elf gets the shaft. The good old Kirin Tor days.

That's RPG though, not necessarily cannon.
Edited by Desidarias on 4/20/2012 8:38 PM PDT
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85 Troll Druid
2945
04/20/2012 08:37 PMPosted by Desidarias
That's RPG though, not necessarily cannon.


I believe his gold coin or something in WoW states he was going to woe her, so it's canon.
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Don't worry.

The Team knows the rightful place of Blood Elves.


Bidnis time?
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
18695
04/20/2012 11:33 AMPosted by Malahinkie
in the Lore Blood elves were a part of the burning legion and it makes absolutely no sense that blood elves be horde


Sylvanas is the reason why Bloodelves are Horde, She was a High elf afterall, and she cares for Her people, if wasn't for her big role in the Forsaken she would be leading the bloodelves.
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100 Human Mage
9210
04/20/2012 08:24 PMPosted by Kroxxigar
Basically, this. Having High Elves, Dwarves and Humans fighting Orcs, Trolls and Undead means WoW is just another generic fantasy story.


And I claim double standard. If we're going for originality, the Darkspear should have gone Alliance, and the Horde would have no trolls. Instead, the Horde retains its thematic purity in the Kalimdor Horde, while the Alliance's left flat and empty.

04/20/2012 08:24 PMPosted by Kroxxigar
But at least his completely retarded "Lo'gosh, avatar of the Wolf God he has nothing to do with at all" thing was a out of the trope. Which is the only nice thing I have to say about it.


Lo'gosh is something I would put up with the Blood Elves going Horde as, 'Being Original for the Sake of being Original, rather than telling a good story.' There is being original, and that originality fitting into the story, making it work (Tauren as part of the Horde, for example), and then there is being original for the sake of being different, which often detracts from a story (Blood Elves joining the Horde).

The real issue I have is that the Blood Elves, in their fel-state, had a great chance to shift the dynamics of the Alliance and shake it to its core. Such an iconic, high-thematic ally going to such lows would have forced the Alliance as a whole to look at its priorities, caused a lot of internal conflict, etc...

Instead they're in the Horde, where they're mostly ignored by the rest of the Horde unless its time to insult them.
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Lo'gosh is something I would put up with the Blood Elves going Horde as, 'Being Original for the Sake of being Original, rather than telling a good story.' There is being original, and that originality fitting into the story, making it work (Tauren as part of the Horde, for example), and then there is being original for the sake of being different, which often detracts from a story (Blood Elves joining the Horde).

The real issue I have is that the Blood Elves, in their fel-state, had a great chance to shift the dynamics of the Alliance and shake it to its core. Such an iconic, high-thematic ally going to such lows would have forced the Alliance as a whole to look at its priorities, caused a lot of internal conflict, etc...

Instead they're in the Horde, where they're mostly ignored by the rest of the Horde unless its time to insult them.


I like the Blood Elves in the Horde.

But you're right. At the time it seemed rather... as in incredibly, inappropriate.

There was little cohesion between the Horde and the Blood Elves throughout Burning Crusade. And they didn't seem to address that issue until sometime in Wrath and then especially in Cata, where Blood Elf NPCs are well integrated into Horde quest lines.

Now, they've kind of grown on me.

When they first joined the Horde, their excuse of using their new allies as a battering ram into Outlands seemed a little forced to me. And their severance from the Alliance, while reasonable, still came off as a little weak.

It honestly seemed mostly like general racism, both by the Blood Elves and Alliance races, pushed them away as a whole.

The integration with the Forsaken was well done, I think. But it is still difficult to excuse the immediate leap from Forsaken and Blood Elf comradely to full on Horde membership.

That is why, I think, the faction reputations are set up the way they are. (Forsaken and Blood Elves starting out as friendly to one another while neutral to the rest of the Horde and vice versa).

Silvermoon is an ally of the Horde, not a core member. An alliance of convenience in the same manner that Undercity is an ally.

Both Silvermoon and Undercity seem to remain outside the core of the Horde as independent states and allies. (At least until the Siege of Undercity and the Kor'kron guards left behind to ensure Undercity's "safety".)

Blood Elves and Forsaken have their own bases, by and large.

Meanwhile Tauren, Orcs, and Trolls largely integrate freely. Making up the core of the Horde.

Anyway... I seem to be in a generally rambling mood tonight. So I apologize for the more than slightly off point little meanderings.
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100 Blood Elf Warlock
11220
04/20/2012 09:24 PMPosted by Elenie
And I claim double standard. If we're going for originality, the Darkspear should have gone Alliance, and the Horde would have no trolls. Instead, the Horde retains its thematic purity in the Kalimdor Horde, while the Alliance's left flat and empty.


the general theme i think people are debateing here is traditional/ tolken fantasy... which is largely the same as traditional.

the issue is that bull men doesnt fit with tolken. and slim sunworthy trolls dont fit with tolken. just calling something a troll doesnt make it a tolken troll. tolken trolls and orcs cant be out in day light. the trolls turn to stone and orcs just cant be out. that is what made oroki(SP) special.

warcraft trolls and tolken trolls are very different. warcraft elves and tolken elves are very different now. great strides were taken to make it so. to make blood elves alliance or neutral would be 10 steps backwards for the universe and make it lord of the rings with less evil orcs(debateable).
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100 Human Paladin
19615
04/20/2012 09:10 PMPosted by Onimontu
That's RPG though, not necessarily cannon.


I believe his gold coin or something in WoW states he was going to woe her, so it's canon.


Several sources touched on Kael's feelings for Jaina (like The Frozen Throne, Road to Damnation and Arthas: Rise of the Lich King).

Kael'thas had an unrequited love for Jaina (while they were both living in Dalaran), but he never acted on it (largely because the difference in their ages made things awkward). Eventually Kael saw Arthas kissing Jaina (which made him quite upset) and any chance of developing a relationship ended before it began.
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100 Blood Elf Priest
6800
Didn't Kael'thas also say something to Arthas about taking things he loved away from him, Jaina and Quel'thalas?
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100 Human Paladin
19615
You may be thinking of their exchange in A Symphony of Frost and Flame:

King Arthas: Are you still upset that I stole Jaina from you, Kael?
Prince Kael'thas: You've taken everything I've ever cared for, Arthas. Vengeance is all I have left.
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85 Blood Elf Paladin
2920
Blood elves in my opinion shouldn't even exsist anymore with the sunwell restored they no longer have to suck fel magic which made their eyes green ( yes I know there was some green eyed high elves but most were blue.)

The one thing that keeps the blood elves horde is the fact that in Lor'themars short story Sylvannas black mailed him into sending forces. Now the scourge is defeated in Quel'thalas and the blood elves now hold full control. The argent crusade controls Eastern Plaugelands which would stop the forsaken from invading (or make it hard) quel'thalas.

High elves and blood elves should join the alliance, yes i said it, because they fit better in it and share more common goals. That being said Anasterian joined the alliance at first because it was good for the them and the humans and he stayed with them for a few hundred years then left. Anasterian wanted to be nautral and wanted his people to just study magic.

On a different note Lor'themar doesn't have the backbone of a political leader and his talents are made for fighting and stragtigic positions like being a general. They should bring back the convocation of silvermoon to handle the political mess and a high council to handle the military stuff and should be tyed together by a king or queen that keeps the balance.

In the end The blood elves I think the blood elves joined the horde for 3 reasons: The dreanei would fit even worse in the horde, Sylvannas was high elf, the horde was closer to help them. Now Quel'thalas is secure and they no longer need to stay horde. ( sorry if that doesn't make sense or id its off topic ex)
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85 Human Paladin
6280
The one thing that keeps the blood elves horde is the fact that in Lor'themars short story Sylvannas black mailed him into sending forces. Now the scourge is defeated in Quel'thalas and the blood elves now hold full control. The argent crusade controls Eastern Plaugelands which would stop the forsaken from invading (or make it hard) quel'thalas.

High elves and blood elves should join the alliance, yes i said it, because they fit better in it and share more common goals. That being said Anasterian joined the alliance at first because it was good for the them and the humans and he stayed with them for a few hundred years then left. Anasterian wanted to be nautral and wanted his people to just study magic.

Opinion

The horde actually helped Silvermoon and acted in favor towards Blood Elves. The humans were aloof and unresponsive, often careless. They did nothing to combat the scourge in the initial invasion, they didn't help after, they abused their power over Kael and his crew, they imprisoned and tried to kill what was left of the Blood Elven Military, Dalaran didn't help, the Kirin Tor didn't help, etc., etc.

The Blood Elves were forced to turn to Illidan for help which turned the Night Elves against them. They helped Akama and the Draenei, until they split up then the Blood Elves and Draenei turned into enemys. That is the reason the Exodar set sail for Azaroth.
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100 Human Mage
9210
04/20/2012 09:35 PMPosted by Brukk
Anyway... I seem to be in a generally rambling mood tonight. So I apologize for the more than slightly off point little meanderings.


It's alright, I tend to agree with most/all of it. I still don't think the Blood Elves have properly integrated into the Horde or have a place in it like most member races do, but that's an opinion. They've certainly integrated a lot better than the Draenei or Worgen did into the Alliance.

04/21/2012 01:18 AMPosted by Desidarias
The horde actually helped Silvermoon and acted in favor towards Blood Elves.


When? The Horde wouldn't even consider allowing them in because they couldn't handle their problems on their own. Sylvanas worked since day one to get them in (for her own reasons). Even when Thrall accepted them, he crumpled the letter, knowing full well they were just using the Horde to get to Outland, but deciding it was in his favor anyways since it gave him a chance to look for Orcs on Draenor.

04/21/2012 01:18 AMPosted by Desidarias
The humans were aloof and unresponsive, often careless. They did nothing to combat the scourge in the initial invasion, they didn't help after, they abused their power over Kael and his crew, they imprisoned and tried to kill what was left of the Blood Elven Military, Dalaran didn't help, the Kirin Tor didn't help, etc., etc.


Nothing to combat the scourge in the initial invasion... Right, because they were in a position to do so? Lordaeron being in pieces and all? As for helping after... same thing. Dalaran was destroyed by Archimonde, so how you expect it to help is beyond me. As for Garrithos, he did not represent humanity as a whole, nor did he represent the Alliance.
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