Blood Elves STAY Horde

90 Troll Shaman
5420
04/21/2012 10:43 AMPosted by Elenie
See, I disagree, I think the Goblin would have listened and begun scouting for a new fuel depot. You even noted the Goblin would change his mind after a good pummeling.

Right, the Goblin would change his mind because of a pummeling, not because of an Orc.

It's not a lack of respect towards Blood Elves, it's a great deal of respect towards getting the snot beaten out himself. I guarantee you if that Blood Elf had kicked or threatened to kick him in the face, she'd have gotten her way.
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100 Tauren Druid
9215
In case my point went unnoticed (which seems the case since all you did was quote a faulty "challenge"):
You left out the context ;) Garrosh is illustrating the ways in which the member races have found their niche in the Horde. The preceding line indicates what the Tauren bring and the very next line, which you neglected to quote:

Garrosh Hellscream says: My point is, if you want the support of the Horde, you need to find your role in the Horde.

So yes, you pointed out where Garrosh very clearly outlines his belief that the Blood Elves have usefulness. You're conflating things - as I asserted, one can find something useful and want them present without having respect for them.
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100 Tauren Druid
9215
04/21/2012 10:54 AMPosted by Kellick
It's not a lack of respect towards Blood Elves, it's a great deal of respect towards getting the snot beaten out himself. I guarantee you if that Blood Elf had kicked or threatened to kick him in the face, she'd have gotten her way.


Exactly - it's not the race that caused the "respect", it would be the violence.
Edited by Bullcowsby on 4/21/2012 10:57 AM PDT
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85 Troll Druid
2945
04/21/2012 09:49 AMPosted by Elenie
This failed with the worgen because, rather than influencing the human aspect, they became furry night elves, who stick out amongst the Alliance more than any other race.


Of course, and given that it's a forced blizzard thematic, I would expect the blood to be hacked into goody 2 shoe's as well on the allaince.
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85 Human Mage
4460
I provided you one despite your challenge being misplaced. Try reading my post this time.


You seem to be ignoring the edit I made before your reply, regarding the conditions of the example. Garrosh's does not meet the conditions. The Challenge remains before you.

04/21/2012 11:14 AMPosted by Onimontu
Of course, and given that it's a forced blizzard thematic, I would expect the blood to be hacked into goody 2 shoe's as well on the allaince.


Well, that's the direction they ended up with at the end of BC, isn't it? A Holy Sunwell, the traitor prince deposed, etc...

Right, the Goblin would change his mind because of a pummeling, not because of an Orc.

It's not a lack of respect towards Blood Elves, it's a great deal of respect towards getting the snot beaten out himself. I guarantee you if that Blood Elf had kicked or threatened to kick him in the face, she'd have gotten her way.


The Orc is likely to pummel him, instilling a fear-based respect. This has been a common between Orcs and Goblins, and by the time of your intro to the Twilight Highlands, you not only see this (and note an engineer who trembles in abject terror at the sight of you inspecting their work, whom you then punt like a gnome), but you participate in it. The Orcs employ respect through fear in several cases that you can document through the game series.

The Blood Elves, however, are not respected in the scenario.
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90 Troll Shaman
5420
04/21/2012 12:40 PMPosted by Elenie
The Blood Elves, however, are not respected in the scenario.

She isn't feared.

Don't confuse the two.

And in your above example, the Goblin engineers will tremble at the sight of the player regardless of whether he's an Orc, a Blood Elf or any other race. It isn't racially motivated, it's brought on by the threat or promise of pain.

The Goblin doesn't "disrespect" the Blood Elf quest giver because she's a Blood Elf, he just doesn't fear her because she does nothing to inspire fear.

All she would need to do is instill fear in the Goblin, either with violence, the threat of violence, or the promise that his actions will in some way bring him trouble.
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100 Tauren Druid
9215
04/21/2012 12:40 PMPosted by Elenie
You seem to be ignoring the edit I made before your reply, regarding the conditions of the example.


Didn't see the edit when I made my initial post. Looking at it now I'm not sure you're being serious. I provided an example of what you asked for - praise. You have an example of an Orc praising the Blood Elves with what I see as sincere praise. Surely you're going to argue it isn't sincere, but that's not really provable either way. Surely, too, you'll argue that it's not like orc-to-orc praise, to which I will point out that we're not talking about orcs talking to orcs. The way in which an orc will praise another orc is not necessarily the same as the way in which they will praise other races. *shrug* You want the very specific qualification of praise delivered about a blood elf as if the blood elf as were an orc, and it has to be what YOU consider sincere. Yeah...

And you still ignore my larger point and the point that your little "challenge" is utter crap. It's YOUR burden to prove "all", not mine to prove "not all". If you want to redefine your argument, you're welcome to do so now.

As it is, you have your example and this is quickly becoming asinine.
Edited by Bullcowsby on 4/21/2012 12:59 PM PDT
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85 Human Death Knight
5085
04/20/2012 02:21 AMPosted by Colsheppard
Kinda hard for someone to let someone you once fought against for your life to walk into you city


They already let orcs, undead and trolls wander around, though.
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85 Human Mage
4460
She isn't feared.


Fear can engender respect, which is how the Orcs have largely earned theirs is my point.

04/21/2012 12:56 PMPosted by Bullcowsby
As it is, you have your example and this is quickly becoming asinine.


Right, you can't prove it anymore than I can prove the Orcs universally dislike Blood Elves. That's all you need to say. *Pats Bull*
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100 Blood Elf Paladin
11000
Gameplay wise, they'll stay with the Horde throughout the duration of the WoW generation.
Lorewise, I guarantee once they accomplish and achieve their personal goal, they will leave the Horde. Joining the Horde was just a matter of conveince and benefit, much like the Forsaken.
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90 Human Warrior
8750
They were screwed by humans.
They were abandoned by the High Elves.
The Night Elves don't like them for helping Illidan and being the offspring of Kaldorei Highborne.
They made enemies with the Draenei on Draenor.

The Forsaken helped them fight off the scourge and rebuild Quel'Thalas.
The Orcs accepted them into the Horde and through Draenor to get manaforges to rebuild the Sunwell.
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100 Tauren Druid
9215
Post 63:

04/21/2012 08:08 AMPosted by Elenie
Not to mention the general tone of NPCs towards Blood Elves reflects that as well.


04/21/2012 01:25 PMPosted by Elenie
Right, you can't prove it anymore than I can prove the Orcs universally dislike Blood Elves. That's all you need to say. *Pats Bull*


Why did you bother with all the needless arguing if you were just going to make my point for me? Seriously, the patronizing is entirely out of place and is reminiscent of another poster. *cringe*

And back to the point I had made that somehow got lost:

One can dislike or distrust someone, or even find fault in them... and that isn't the same as not wanting them as part of the group. Garrosh's own text in the Pandaren intro indicates that it's possible. We know from his short story that he views the blood elves with suspicion and contempt, yet in the quest he informs the player that even the Blood Elves have found a role in the Horde.
Edited by Bullcowsby on 4/21/2012 3:06 PM PDT
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100 Tauren Druid
9215
04/21/2012 03:15 PMPosted by Kynrind
And that would be me. :)


Nah, not you. You don't get overly condescending really, and certainly not ironically so. Elenie doesn't either usually, so I dunno wtf the issue is here.

And yeah, I saw it.

Again, I don't know what the problem is... a poster 2 pages ago broke in and was speaking IC and said "I hope I speak for the Horde when I say we don't really want Blood Elves in our faction. Soz."

He doesn't speak for the Horde, IC or OOC.
Edited by Bullcowsby on 4/21/2012 3:19 PM PDT
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85 Worgen Rogue
13435
Nah, not you. You don't get overly condescending really, and certainly not ironically so. Elenie doesn't either usually, so I dunno wtf the issue is here.


Stop talking about me behind my back! It hurts my feelings!

*runs off crying*
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85 Blood Elf Death Knight
3170
[quote="46612566309"]They were abandoned by the High Elves.

They werent Abandoned by High Elves, They were high elves but changed their name due to Kael'thas changing their name
Edited by Colsheppard on 4/21/2012 6:47 PM PDT
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How bout this: you have high elves, and you have blood elves. Like a civil war. Eh? Eh? Maybe blizzard could slightly alter their appearance or something for one side or the other.

P.S. personally, I feel High Elves would best fit the Alliance. They just don't fit well in the Horde, IMO.
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85 Blood Elf Death Knight
3170
Also the only way Blizzard could make it fair for anyone that is a Belf that if they decided to move them to Alliance they have to give a free Character or Faction change to all that have a Belf which would cost blizzard alot cos i know alot of people that wouldnt play if they had to be on Alliance
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100 Human Mage
17005
P.S. personally, I feel High Elves would best fit the Alliance. They just don't fit well in the Horde, IMO.


No one is arguing otherwise; the only High Elves left are in the Alliance already, and most of them (the Silver Covenant) dislike the Blood Elves in particular, notwithstanding their brief truce with the Sin'dorei Farstriders.
Edited by Gibbons on 4/21/2012 7:32 PM PDT
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90 Human Warrior
8750
04/21/2012 06:47 PMPosted by Colsheppard
They werent Abandoned by High Elves, They were high elves but changed their name due to Kael'thas changing their name


The High Elves that stayed High Elves either never came to the aid of Silvermoon, left Silvermoon to find sanctuary with the alliance in SW, or left because they were opposed to the use of Fel-Magics.

As far as the Blood Elves are concerned they were abandoned by those who refused the name Sin'Dorei
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