Constant hang ups for OVER A YEAR

85 Human Priest
6600
I will try to make this sound as nice as possible, because my honest opinion is that thousands upon thousands of customers experience this same issue, and 0% of them have had a solution. Seriously, I don't see how there isn't a class-action lawsuit for stealing peoples' money. It's rediculous to even expect every serious or casual WoW player to be able to troubleshoot problems when it is not there profession or responsibility to know IT troubleshooting.

This issue has persisted off and on for years. I have personally posted about it with no solution, and read tons of other posts with the identical problem with no solution.

I have complied with every copy-paste response from blizzard, even if they were completely irrelevant to the problem. I am an IT professional and I don't want to be fed the same old no-brainer answers.

I have already posted several tracerts, with nothing wrong with them.
I've given dxdiag's and there are no issues. I have a high performance computer, and there are no computer or network issues with any other game, service, application, or browser, except for Blizzard's World of Warcraft.
All video, sound, and network hardware is 100% up to date.
Wired and wireless connections have been tried.
Blizzard network ports have been forwarded in windows firewall and router.
Installation and reinstallation has been done.

I've even been in DIFFERENT STATES, with DIFFERENT ISP's, routers, modems etc with the same issues. There needs to be a fix already. It is not on the customer's ends. Are the servers supplied by Blizzard unable to withstand the traffic?

Why is there no fix for the thousands of people with the same issue? Every individual person is fed the same story, the same copy-paste answers, and treated as if they have their own individual problem when it's a NATIONWIDE issue.

I am posting this on my behalf, and my girlfriend's behalf. She will need a refund if the issue can not be fixed on Blizzard's side, along with all the other people who are unable to play your application. It is not fair to keep taking money and not providing the expected service.

Thank you
Nick Wylie
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85 Night Elf Rogue
5730
Amen
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85 Human Priest
6600
This could blow up into a huge class-action lawsuit actually if chosen to. I can and will share this over facebook or change.org. Seeing as there are over 10 million subscribers, I'm sure a few million of them reside on facebook.

Blizzard CAN NOT keep dealing illegitimate business with running over all of their customers. Don't even give me a response from a minimum-wage Blizzard employee. Respond with the top of the chain. A seasoned network administrator and an employee with high senority. I'm done playing around with this extra un-needed stress. Serious actions will be taken.

The power of the customers, the people that give you YOUR salaries, is a much greater power than all the money you have as a company to try defending yourselves legally. I'm sure there are thousands of IT professionals that play or try to play World of Warcraft who can all testify the same issue, and testify that they have had the same run around. There is hard evidence, hundreds of unanswered posts on these forums alone. Hundreds of threads that have 1 or 2 "blue" responses to "help" and once that "help" they provide doesn't work for the customer, there is simply no more "blue help".
Edited by Aagro on 4/22/2012 9:08 AM PDT
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85 Human Priest
6600
I do have personal records of this thread, so don't even try hiding it or locking it, it will be reposted again. If I am banned from the forums, I will use several other battle.net accounts, or simply go directly to change.org to get this ball rolling.
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85 Orc Rogue
0
Friendly word of warning Aagro (rather appropriate name considering the content of the thread):

1.) You give up the right to a class-action when you agree to the EULA & ToS for the game. It is right there in it.

2.) Service is not guaranteed-again check the EULA & ToS it's in there

3.) Finally Blizzard has no control whatsoever over the path your data takes from your computer until it hits it's severs. If you are playing (or attempting to play) from outside the U.S. or by using a satellite or commercial WiFi connection be advised neither of those are supported play methods.

All that said.........I wish you luck in what will likely be a pointless endeavor

__________________________________________________________________________________
SUPPORT for Connection/Latency/Lag Related Issues
Click here: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/1020824261
Unofficial WoW Tech Support Pages
http://www.wowpedia.org/Portal:Technical_support
Edited by Drunkinhik on 4/22/2012 9:37 AM PDT
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90 Human Mage
18015
If you're here to complain, you probably want general discussion or something, certainly not tech support. If you want actual tech support, you should actually say what the problem is.
Edited by Larwood on 4/22/2012 11:43 AM PDT
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MVP - Technical Support
84 Troll Mage
700
04/21/2012 06:50 PMPosted by Aagro
I've even been in DIFFERENT STATES, with DIFFERENT ISP's, routers, modems etc with the same issues.

I haven't seen you post about this before, so could you elaborate? What states were you in? What ISPs were you using? Do you know the make and model of the routers you were connected to? Were you still using the same computer? Was your girlfriend with you and also using the same computer?

Speaking of your girlfriend, does she disconnect at the same time as you?

I highly suggest sticking to the forums at this point in the process. Unlike the phones and support tickets, these forums are manned by Tier 3 Tech Support agents.
________________________________________________
Tech Support MVP
"...and, we're back!" -Google
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85 Worgen Druid
7385
TLDR; Come join us http://chat.mibbit.com/?channel=%23wowtech&server=irc.freenode.net to receive help from experienced IT professionals as well as people who know many of the major WoW problems and solutions.

And time to bust out the big IT guns...

I usually prefer to question anyone who claims they are an "IT Professional" in these forums as they usually have minimal understanding of what it is they're doing or have never actually worked in an environment like the one Blizzard operates. Make no mistake, even I have not worked in their facility nor under their conditions, but I did spend time working as a datacenter NOC technician early in my career.

Firstly, Blizzard has an exclusive contract to work with AT&T to provide datacenter and connectivity services. While I know this means to many of you "OMG WHY WORK WITH ONE PROVIDER?!" there are many benefits. First and foremost you get a guarantee on a number of services that you wouldn't otherwise have. There is a base level of operations of all of AT&T's datacenters that they meet. Since Blizzard doesn't have to contract with other 3rd party datacenters to host their equipment it means you see a consistent play experience across the WoW world. No one battlegroup is more unstable than the other for most of the time. This also means that it's a guaranteed provider SLA. What would happen if a primary link goes down from a 3rd party vendor, and then Blizzard has to re-establish a BGP session with a second provider? All users in that datacenter would get kicked off, the sessions would re-establish and take a completely separate path which either may or may not work, or drastically increase latency. Even more interesting is the fact that after the primary link fixed itself then the disconnects would happen again. Thankfully Blizzard doesn't really have to worry about any of this themselves due to contracting network services over AT&T. In fact, to my knowledge they are also leveraging AT&T's network cloud for dataservices between datacenters which allows them to push data at high transfer rates, bypassing the open internet to get there. For all intents and purposes, the connectivity provided to Blizzard is top tier service that unless you work in that industry you won't see provided to your own business.

Blizzard has more or less very high demanding service requirements that most vendors themselves are incapable of meeting except under very expensive circumstances. If you've done any reading on VOIP, Blizzard is classified more or less as a low latency realtime streaming media service. They can't even do some of the tricks that high end video services do (buffering ahead) because the data needs to be provided in realtime as you play the game.

No doubt that in addition to the facilities provided by AT&T for monitoring that Blizzard also has their own monitoring to supplement AT&T. The most difficult problems to find thend to be code problems that cause latency or stability issues, for example, things that cause a particular thread on the server to chew up a high amount of CPU or ram, causing the realm to crash or degrade. No doubt crashing the realm is probably a check they put into place to help immediately resume service to everyone else, if not the most elegant way of handling it. Also thankfully, they usually work out these bugs long before the code goes into production. But these issues are not easily discernable to the end user as being different, but they're completely different from network and availability problems. Blizzard is pretty quick to fixing problems like that and provide a very high level of service for the game.

Now that we have that out of the way, I can also tell you that Blizzard uses very high end equipment to do their jobs. They leverage Oracle database backends with blade systems that power the servers. These systems and the enclosures that run them are not cheap. You're talking millions of dollars in hardware to power WoW. They're also not running on the same hardware they had years ago when WoW started.

They also keep the code updated. Keeping WoW in the condition it is in at all takes a ridiculous amount of money and work effort. WoW's codebase has evolved significantly overtime. A vast majority of these changes go completely unnoticed to the user, which is the ultimate end goal of what they work on. WoW 1.0 is SIGNIFICANTLY different than WoW 4.0.

So now that we've established the kind of effort and money that Blizzard has put into WoW, I can assure you that in almost all cases the problems are usually on the end user's computer or their ISP. A vast majority of connectivity issues are usually head end or line issues, or simply bad equipment being used improperly.

We would be very happy to help out, feel free to jump inside of the IRC chat that Drunkinhik has in his signature. I'm an experienced IT professional with a background in Windows, Linux, and Unix. I've worked in datacenters, for businesses, and I've even been on the receiving end of technical support calls. I'm currently working to build an inter-hackerspace PBX system as well as redesigning my local hackerspace's network to support the Chaos VPN system. I have experience in working with Cisco and Juniper and also IPv4 and IPv6 implementations. I'm a frequent contributor to the reddit.com/r/networking and reddit.com/r/ipv6 subreddits.

If someone like myself can't figure out what your problem is then I dunno what to tell you. All I ask is that you be open to people providing you help.
Edited by Ako on 4/22/2012 1:49 PM PDT
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85 Human Priest
6600
Frankly, whilst I agree with much of your points, I do have to direct you to Drunkinhik's post above, as well.

Blizzard is, honestly, not the best company in regards to their terms of service and how they handle network issues and support in general. I've seen better, I've heard of better, and they are by the far the "industry standard" in regards to these issues.

That being said, there's virtually nothing you can do. Blizzard could do something but after years of the same issues it's unlikely they ever will and you really can't go for a class-action lawsuit as most companies these days deliberately stick clauses in their terms of service saying you give up all rights to these kinds of lawsuits upon agreeing to their terms. This is to save their !@# but I just find it a %%*# move.

Companies like Blizzard will always protect their $%^ in their terms with clauses preventing certain types of lawsuits, clauses saying they're not responsible for any damages or what-not, clauses preventing them from being responsible for network issues and any other issues, etc. These are all fairly standard clauses, but that doesn't stop them from being absolutely retarded and usually harming the customer in the long term.

Of course, if you don't like it, don't agree to them.


Very unfortunate, I know.I am not here to flame. Yes, there may be terms to "protect" them from lawsuit, but as history as shown, if enough customers are complaining, anything can happen.

I am not lying when I have posted about this serveral times in the past. If it isn't there, it's probably gone as the threads ended up being "Locked" after no one at Blizzard could solve the issue.

I do not want to waste my time providing the same exact information with no errors multiple times.

Again, like I said in my original post, all information asked for was supplied such as modems, routers, computers, etc. If Blizzard likes to lock and delete unfixed posts, then that is again an issue on their part. If I can't post on a locked/deleted thread, I have to start a new one.

Most people with the same exact problem aren't able to go to a seperate state and ISP and test the same problem. I was forunate to be able to do that.

The ISPs were Qwest (CenturyLink) in Colorado. Cox in Nevada. Comcast in California. Same computer. I will give basic specs:

i7 2.66GHz OC 4.4GHz
6GB DDR 1333 OC 1700
Asus P6T Motherboard
Radeon 5850 HD
All drivers are up to date

The routers used were linksys routers (different ones) with 802.11b/g/n, and I have tried connecting directly to the internet as well. All tracerts are 100% good, which were shown to Blizzard and confirmed. Wired connections have been tested, wireless have been tested. Any tpye of router setting to try to fix this issue has been used (again, I'm an IT professional, and no, I am not some lying child trolling). I have worked and cooperated with Blizzard and all their ways of troubleshooting, relevant and irrelevant. Obviously it isn't an ISP issue, so Blizzard can't give me that BS excuse.

This problem has happened at random times with me at again, different houses and networks. The problem has happened with my girl friend at random times at different houses and networks. I only mention that I am writing this on behalf of my girlfriend because 1. She isn't an IT professional nor would she be able to do anything Blizzard asks of (not to be mean to her) and 2. She is just another random customer that has the same issue that I have seen so many other people have and not been able to fix, but simply quit the game and have to live without it.

As far as I can see and have concluded, this is completely and solely an issue on Blizzard's end. My guess is that they simply can't support the amount of traffic, therefore many hundreds or thousands of people get the end of the bandwidth and get constant disconnections/lag/hangups. As everyone who plays world of warcraft knows, everytime something has came out (expansions, patches, etc) the servers can never support the traffic, EVER, period. It feels like they are being cheap on their end, hence why they push out so many expansions so fast with no thought into them, just to make more money.
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85 Human Priest
6600
It's just very sad that a huge company can be unethical just because they get in the mindset that they are invincible and so big now that they don't have to treat a few thousand customers with respect or make their service work for those few thousand customers, because they will make enough money off of the other 9 million people.
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85 Human Priest
6600
typical blizz response to any connection / client issues are:
1) It's your addon's (because a piece of software shouldn't need to be stable enough to handle them)
2) It's your fault, get different gear
3) it's the OS's fault, reinstall
4) Reinstall your graphics driver
5) Reinstall your game
6) run the fix tools (we know they don't actually do anything but CRC check the files, but meh)
7) Call your congressman
8) it's still your fault.. no matter what you say
9) we're perfect, our client doesn't have bugs, it has undocumented features. (Like random disconnects, because we feel you play too much WoW and haven't purchased enough pets / mounts / figurines from the store)
10) We still say it's your fault, we can't replicate the problem (and haven't tried) so it's your fault, working as intended


So true. So funny. So sad.
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85 Worgen Druid
7385
You continue to claim you are an "IT Professional" but I have seen no reason to believe you are one as you have not provided enough documentation on what you've done and how you've tested. Any reasonbly competent IT professional can use a myriad of tools to work down the OSI model to find likely culprits of problems.

You either want to work on the issue or not. That's up to you.
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10 Tauren Druid
50
Ako, you aren't contributing to the conversation in any way, stop flaming, go elsewhere to troll please.

kkthnxbai
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85 Worgen Druid
7385
Frankly, whilst I agree with much of your points, I do have to direct you to Drunkinhik's post above, as well.

Blizzard is, honestly, not the best company in regards to their terms of service and how they handle network issues and support in general. I've seen better, I've heard of better, and they are by the far the "industry standard" in regards to these issues.

That being said, there's virtually nothing you can do. Blizzard could do something but after years of the same issues it's unlikely they ever will and you really can't go for a class-action lawsuit as most companies these days deliberately stick clauses in their terms of service saying you give up all rights to these kinds of lawsuits upon agreeing to their terms. This is to save their !@# but I just find it a %%*# move.

Companies like Blizzard will always protect their $%^ in their terms with clauses preventing certain types of lawsuits, clauses saying they're not responsible for any damages or what-not, clauses preventing them from being responsible for network issues and any other issues, etc. These are all fairly standard clauses, but that doesn't stop them from being absolutely retarded and usually harming the customer in the long term.

Of course, if you don't like it, don't agree to them.


Very unfortunate, I know.I am not here to flame. Yes, there may be terms to "protect" them from lawsuit, but as history as shown, if enough customers are complaining, anything can happen.

I am not lying when I have posted about this serveral times in the past. If it isn't there, it's probably gone as the threads ended up being "Locked" after no one at Blizzard could solve the issue.

I do not want to waste my time providing the same exact information with no errors multiple times.

Again, like I said in my original post, all information asked for was supplied such as modems, routers, computers, etc. If Blizzard likes to lock and delete unfixed posts, then that is again an issue on their part. If I can't post on a locked/deleted thread, I have to start a new one.

Most people with the same exact problem aren't able to go to a seperate state and ISP and test the same problem. I was forunate to be able to do that.

The ISPs were Qwest (CenturyLink) in Colorado. Cox in Nevada. Comcast in California. Same computer. I will give basic specs:

i7 2.66GHz OC 4.4GHz
6GB DDR 1333 OC 1700
Asus P6T Motherboard
Radeon 5850 HD
All drivers are up to date

The routers used were linksys routers (different ones) with 802.11b/g/n, and I have tried connecting directly to the internet as well. All tracerts are 100% good, which were shown to Blizzard and confirmed. Wired connections have been tested, wireless have been tested. Any tpye of router setting to try to fix this issue has been used (again, I'm an IT professional, and no, I am not some lying child trolling). I have worked and cooperated with Blizzard and all their ways of troubleshooting, relevant and irrelevant. Obviously it isn't an ISP issue, so Blizzard can't give me that BS excuse.

This problem has happened at random times with me at again, different houses and networks. The problem has happened with my girl friend at random times at different houses and networks. I only mention that I am writing this on behalf of my girlfriend because 1. She isn't an IT professional nor would she be able to do anything Blizzard asks of (not to be mean to her) and 2. She is just another random customer that has the same issue that I have seen so many other people have and not been able to fix, but simply quit the game and have to live without it.

As far as I can see and have concluded, this is completely and solely an issue on Blizzard's end. My guess is that they simply can't support the amount of traffic, therefore many hundreds or thousands of people get the end of the bandwidth and get constant disconnections/lag/hangups. As everyone who plays world of warcraft knows, everytime something has came out (expansions, patches, etc) the servers can never support the traffic, EVER, period. It feels like they are being cheap on their end, hence why they push out so many expansions so fast with no thought into them, just to make more money.


I reiterate once again, what issues are you currently experiencing? What have you tried to resolve the issue?
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90 Blood Elf Death Knight
12000
Aagro, I am having the same issue. I have no addons, I have tried everything including getting a new internet line, router, router/modem combined, I have three routers now to be exact, uninstalling then reinstalling twice, moving the router, connecting to the router via firewire and ethernet, wiping my computer, running maleware/virus/spyware scans, removing curse totally, updating all drivers and my computer is 3 months old custom Toshiba laptop. I have a Qosmio and Satellite (sat is the newest) and they both have the client and both disconnect. I never had this issue till a month ago. I did everything I could and I am waiting to hear from Blizz as well. Regardless of anything class action, I want my game fixed. I paid for it, I want to play it. I have a very active guild I am part of and I do not want to lose that. You are not alone in this issue.

I may not be an IT Professional however my brother in law is, he has done everything short of taking my computer in, to which I am not prepared to pay for. I believe this is an issue with blizz, I have spent too much money making sure it is not my issue, they need to get to it and find out on their end, plain and simple.
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