Comment on Blizz rep response to Human Racial

90 Human Paladin
17860
Bring back Perception. Then we can have the entire ladder consist of Human RMP vs Undead RMP. That would be soooooooo much better </sarcasm>
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87 Blood Elf Mage
10250
I hope they revamp every racial.
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90 Human Mage
11635
Hmm why didn't i see all this complaining when alliance's example of a good racial was removing roots? Of course it's fine when its the other way around for years and the horde dominate everything with offensive racials compared to pitiful, remove root/diseases/weak hot racials. I just can't help but laugh at the horde crying ohh its not fair. When this was brought up the other way around years ago it was L2P L2P and now that alliance has a good one its nothing but tears.

this is a flawed discussion for the obvious reason that "racials", by very concept, can't be fair. having the same exact abilities across the board would be invariably fair, but that wouldn't be very interesting.


Every other racial in the game is accepted as "fair" for the most part. Human is the only one that gets loads of complaints for valid reasons

Like I said in my earlier post, if racials were just changed to change EMFH to something else racials would be balanced even worse than they are now. Horde would be dominating on the PvP and PvE side of things.

If and only if all racials are balanced out so that there is an equally powerful PvP and PvE distribution to both sides, then EMFH should be allowed to be changed.


Thinking a bit too hard there, it just needs to be changed to something that does not give them a free trinket slot, like for a rough example, it only removes stun and incapacitate effects on a 1 min 30s CD.

yaaaaaaaaaaa try being anything that relies on fear vs undead before making statements like that.All of your complaints are ignoring the fact that pvp power is going to be a very desirable stat for obvious reasons. None of us even know at this point how many % extra dmg a pvp power trinket will provide against other players. It could be double what the stats on a pve trinket will provide. No one knows that is a fact so quit complaining about this.

Also i think i will make a thread about how offended i am that most top PvE guilds are horde because of offensive racials that actually help them beat enrage timers n such. I will have to compare how being able to trinket does nothing on most fights and that a raid of 15+ DPS all having an extra haste/dmg racial isn't balanced and so on like you guys are doing now.

Great Job taking what I said out of Context. Keep showing everyone how you cant support your own statements.
And you would notice something about human representation since it changed from Perception to EMFH. It went up.
My point about Representation numbers is you can say anything you want but only a fool would belive it, Rational people need prrof. Keep arguing warstomp is this amazing ability when less then 1% of the top players use it.

Fire mage who's highest personal is barely 1800 and has only downed normal morchok i suppose its human racials holding you back i mean you could be using what a raid finder trinket instead, im sure this is what's holding you back though.
04/27/2012 05:38 PMPosted by Tonkatoy
Also @necralia, if EMFH isn't that great then you obviously wouldn't be opposed to all races having it and Humans getting a racial to compensate.

No offence but your a mage with legendary staff, your hiding on a low lvl alt and talking about balance when your highest rating WITH a legendary has been 1600some......
Edited by Wyndoor on 4/29/2012 3:04 AM PDT
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90 Human Mage
11635
04/28/2012 09:47 PMPosted by Ceratisa
I hope they revamp every racial.

This would be ideal, but until i see a list of every racial and its balanced i won't go for it at all. Their idea of balanced for how many years was alliance getting out of a root/poisons/useless shadowmeld(before buffed) all the while undead was practically fear immune, orcs unstunnable by combining spec/meta/racial and having offensive racials such as berserking/blood fury that work vs any class/spec compared to being able to break roots/poison which is pointless against most classes.

So yeah this is why you don't get any sympathy from the alliance players, they were on the receiving end of this for a very long time and got quite sick of it.

The worst part of this entire thread is people complaining about using these OP trinkets when you can armory them and they have no kills in DS to even provide the trinket. You could literally hand human racial to 90% of these people and it wouldn't change anything. These people would simply direct their complaints to threads about losing rolls in RF to "noobs".
Edited by Wyndoor on 4/29/2012 3:12 AM PDT
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90 Dwarf Hunter
16980
04/28/2012 03:48 PMPosted by Dran
Thinking a bit too hard there, it just needs to be changed to something that does not give them a free trinket slot, like for a rough example, it only removes stun and incapacitate effects on a 1 min 30s CD.

So then the human racial is either changed to be worse than the horde PvP racials, in between the horde racials or worse than all the horde racials. Even if it gets second place we still got a line up like this:

PvP racials
#1 Horde
#2 Alliance
#3-7 Horde

PvE racials
#1-4 Horde

That is still stupidly unbalanced, more unbalanced than the current, horde having the top spot in both and completely dominating the rest of the alliance racials except for what humans have. You obviously just don't really understand the situation, if the human racial is going to be changed to anything but the best PvP racial, then most all other racials will have to be changed as well, either alliance racials being buffed to have more use in PvP and especially PvE, or horde racials getting the nerfbat which I am sure will gross a few thousand horde QQers complaining that only alliance racials should have been nerfed because we had the best PvP racial with horde having the next six best and the top four PvE racials to boot.

Seriously, my thinking process is fine, you are the one that isn't thinking enough. So many horde tunnel vision to "Nerf it cuz it's the best one and trinket slot QQ!" instead of actually thinking of what would happen if they would just nerf it and not change any other racials at the same time.
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85 Orc Warrior
8955
04/29/2012 03:09 AMPosted by Wyndoor
So yeah this is why you don't get any sympathy from the alliance players, they were on the receiving end of this for a very long time and got quite sick of it.


I don't think anybody is trying to "get sympathy from alliance players" or get players who play humans in PvP to want to change their racials to something that is weaker. Based on what you've just said, that's probably not going to happen.

I also don't think that anybody is legitimately advocating for a change to EMFH to be made in a vacuum, and it's not really a logical conclusion that just because someone hasn't mentioned a complete plan that they want EMFH nerfed but everything else to remain the same.

What the OP and others seem to be arguing here is that, in a PvP context, EMFH is too powerful relative to other racials, primarily as a result of the power of the trinket slot that it frees up. Fixing that problem is obviously not a simple, one-step decision, and its solution would probably impact humans and other races, both Alliance and Horde, in both PvP and PvE.

All that said, I don't see anybody here arguing that EMFH is well-balanced relative to other racials (either Alliance or Horde) in a PvP context, so if we could move the discussion in this thread to fair solutions to that problem rather than either protecting our histories of victimization or hiding our advocacy for continued unfair advantages behind the same "L2P" arguments that have made us frustrated in other contexts, I think this thread might actually be useful.

So, what should the devs do? What would be fair to Alliance players who don't want to play humans and Horde players who don't want to switch factions to optimize their PvP success?
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04/29/2012 09:21 AMPosted by Kek
So yeah this is why you don't get any sympathy from the alliance players, they were on the receiving end of this for a very long time and got quite sick of it.


I don't think anybody is trying to "get sympathy from alliance players" or get players who play humans in PvP to want to change their racials to something that is weaker. Based on what you've just said, that's probably not going to happen.

I also don't think that anybody is legitimately advocating for a change to EMFH to be made in a vacuum, and it's not really a logical conclusion that just because someone hasn't mentioned a complete plan that they want EMFH nerfed but everything else to remain the same.

What the OP and others seem to be arguing here is that, in a PvP context, EMFH is too powerful relative to other racials, primarily as a result of the power of the trinket slot that it frees up. Fixing that problem is obviously not a simple, one-step decision, and its solution would probably impact humans and other races, both Alliance and Horde, in both PvP and PvE.

All that said, I don't see anybody here arguing that EMFH is well-balanced relative to other racials (either Alliance or Horde) in a PvP context, so if we could move the discussion in this thread to fair solutions to that problem rather than either protecting our histories of victimization or hiding our advocacy for continued unfair advantages behind the same "L2P" arguments that have made us frustrated in other contexts, I think this thread might actually be useful.

So, what should the devs do? What would be fair to Alliance players who don't want to play humans and Horde players who don't want to switch factions to optimize their PvP success?

I couldn't of said it better myself.

I'm not in any way advocating that human racials be nerfed into the ground. I've not even recommended a fix to the issue. But the idea that "Oh horde racials have been better in the past, so now it's alliance turn to be OP" is dumb. 1 because I don't think Human racials are better then Undead in many situations (though that maybe contested.) And 2 prior unbalances are never an excuse for current ones. And 3, Shut up you guys got Fearward for all of vanilla.

Joking aside, racials need to be competitive to each other. No one wants what class or perhaps faction they play dictated to them based on their desire to play competitively.

All I've done is point out that a large consistent imbalance exist in the game, that changes how completive play is undertaken.
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83 Undead Mage
5170
Give all races an "EMFH", just with different names per race. Remove all the trinkets that remove effects, since they are no longer needed.

Next, remove all other on use racials. As long as there are different on use racials, there will always be people whining about it. Always. If you just remove EMFH then you're gonna get whines about the next most powerful racial (which may be YOUR race) and the cycle will continue.

Give each race a couple weapon bonuses, like some races currently have. Using these weapons grants extra expertise (even ranged, since ranged weapons now need expertise). Keep the current ones (Humans with swords and maces, Orcs with axes and fist weapons, etc.) and give races that don't have them a couple that fit the race.

Give each race a bonus to a certain secondary stat, like Spirit for Humans, Crit for Worgen, Haste for Goblins, etc..

And give each race a fun flavor PvE racial like Diplomacy for Humans.

Then you'll only have a couple minor PvP differences when you choose a race. If that fails, remove ALL the damn racial bonuses.


Best idea ever!
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85 Human Hunter
2875
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/pvp/arena/cyclone-wirbelsturm/3v3
Edited by Youguy on 4/29/2012 10:18 AM PDT
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04/29/2012 10:18 AMPosted by Youguy
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/pvp/arena/cyclone-wirbelsturm/3v3

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/pvp/arena/bloodlust/3v3
How about we look at bg9, the most competitive battle group in the game.

Oh look it's US cyclone the top contender with bg9
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/pvp/arena/cyclone/3v3
Edited by Notdeadfredi on 4/29/2012 10:49 AM PDT
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85 Human Hunter
2875
There all US. Go to EU all horde. L2p issue. Its obviously going to be fixed in mist with pvp power= human racial will just be like every other racial. Yay no more qq.
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90 Orc Shaman
8360
04/29/2012 09:36 AMPosted by Notdeadfredi
Joking aside, racials need to be competitive to each other. No one wants what class or perhaps faction they play dictated to them based on their desire to play competitively.
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04/29/2012 11:30 AMPosted by Youguy
There all US. Go to EU all horde. L2p issue. Its obviously going to be fixed in mist with pvp power= human racial will just be like every other racial. Yay no more qq.


Care to explain yourself? How is It going to be fixed when humans dont have to sacrifice any pvp power or Pvp defense. they will have just as much + 2 offensive trinkets.

The Racial is OP. Even if you Factor out PVE trinkets and only use PVP trinkets, Cataclysmic Gladiator's Badge of Dominance will give you more burst, for longer the duration then Blood Fury (Orc Racial). The PvE trinkets just make it worse because they're so much more powerful then their PvP counterpart. But If Blizz added PvP power, and PvP defense onto PvP trinkets to make them more appealing, then Humans would have more of whatever that on proc, or on use stat is. And If that on use or on proc ability is pvp power then Humans will the race that will be able to do a distinct % increase to players above any other race.
Edited by Notdeadfredi on 4/29/2012 11:46 AM PDT
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90 Dwarf Hunter
16980
If you are arguing for a revamp to all racials don't make threads completely about the human racial, imho human racial is the least of the problems with racials now. The main problem is the gap between horde racials and the rest of the alliance racials besides EMFH, in PvE and PvP.

They all need to be changed, so instead of making a thread about the human racial, make one about requesting revamps and redos for all racials, not just abilities either, because I am still tired of losing my ranged crit chance because there are like no guns while more than half of every ranged drop is a bow.
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7 Blood Elf Warlock
0
EMFH needs to be baseline for all races, end of discussion. Makes you wonder how Blizz is going to balance things like Pet battles and future PVP when they cant even get a couple racials balanced to be different but equal.
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85 Human Death Knight
4655
As illustrated by Notdeadfedi, any claim that humans lose out on resil because they dont need the freedom trinket is invalid because that can replace it with any other PVP trinket that supplies resil.

EMFH (PVP wise) is the equivalent of having a racial that looks like this:
Equip: Increases your resilience rating by 484 (6.12% @ L85).
Use: Increases Strength by 2419 for 20 sec. (2 Min Cooldown)
Or this:
Equip: Increases your resilience rating by 484 (6.12% @ L85).
Equip: When you deal damage you have a chance to gain 1452 Agility for 20 sec.

It is clearly order of magnitudes better than something like this:
Gift of the Naaru
40 yd range
3 min cooldown
Heals the target for 20% of their total health over 15 sec.
Or this:
Berserking
3 min cooldown
Increases your attack and casting speed by 20% for 10 sec.

EMFH needs to be removed and replaced with something unique and powerful, but on par with all the other racials. Something like this:
"All Rounder"
3 min cooldown
Increases Critical Hit, Haste and Mastery by 7% for 10 sec.


It's especially funny because his end solution is basically exactly what emfh really gives you.Protip: the cc breaking part of the cc break trinket is only half of it.
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85 Human Death Knight
4655
If you are arguing for a revamp to all racials don't make threads completely about the human racial, imho human racial is the least of the problems with racials now. The main problem is the gap between horde racials and the rest of the alliance racials besides EMFH, in PvE and PvP.

They all need to be changed, so instead of making a thread about the human racial, make one about requesting revamps and redos for all racials, not just abilities either, because I am still tired of losing my ranged crit chance because there are like no guns while more than half of every ranged drop is a bow.


also this, it's hilarious how he posts a list where *NOT* having all undead is the exception while having all humans is the exception for us to argue about how op the human racial is and it needs to be nerfed just like undead was
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2 Undead Mage
0
If you are arguing for a revamp to all racials don't make threads completely about the human racial, imho human racial is the least of the problems with racials now. The main problem is the gap between horde racials and the rest of the alliance racials besides EMFH, in PvE and PvP.

They all need to be changed, so instead of making a thread about the human racial, make one about requesting revamps and redos for all racials, not just abilities either, because I am still tired of losing my ranged crit chance because there are like no guns while more than half of every ranged drop is a bow.


also this, it's hilarious how he posts a list where *NOT* having all undead is the exception while having all humans is the exception for us to argue about how op the human racial is and it needs to be nerfed just like undead was

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/emerald-dream/Undeadfredi/simple
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/emerald-dream/Undeadfred%C3%AD/simple
His mains are conveniently undead mage/warlock so of course he doesn't want anything done to their racials.
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