Symbiosis. Too much drama?

04/30/2012 09:37 PMPosted by Tecxero
If the tank needs an extra defensive cooldown, then he's clearly not geared to be in said dungeon, or the healer is letting him drop unnecessarily low or he doesn't know mechanics.


What if he's in a progressive raiding guild and they're still learning the fights? Of course they won't be over-geared for the content and they still don't have the skill. Stuff like that could help them last long enough to push a phase.

Then again, having an extra DPS CD could also help in a DPS race type fight.


....

The OP said s/he's specifically referring to PUGs.
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90 Blood Elf Warlock
6680
....

The OP said s/he's specifically referring to PUGs.


Ah yeah, managed to forget that. >.<
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:P

Personally, I'd imagine that most people won't even know/care who you put it on, unless the Tank is clearly not able to handle a particular fight or something. In which case, you can suck it up and go one fight without it for the good of the group.

If you refuse to give the tank Symbiosis, despite the fact that he clearly needs it, then yeah, you're not a team player.
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:P

Personally, I'd imagine that most people won't even know/care who you put it on, unless the Tank is clearly not able to handle a particular fight or something. In which case, you can suck it up and go one fight without it for the good of the group.

If you refuse to give the tank Symbiosis, despite the fact that he clearly needs it, then yeah, you're not a team player.


Of course. I boot the tank and hopefully get one that doesn't suck :P


I don't know. I can play/deal with low skill/good attitudes, such as willingness to take advice. I can't deal with OMG LOOK AT MY DPS WHO CARES IF WE'RE WIPING LOL.
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90 Night Elf Rogue
8690
OP, don't complain. Your class, which already has a Kings-esque group buff, is gaining ANOTHER group utility buff.

While SOME classes will still have jack all.
04/30/2012 09:21 PMPosted by Bomdanil
Wow, DKs get the worst possible buff out of Symbiosis compared to the other tank classes.

Don't feel bad.

Rogues get GROWL. Quite possibly the least desired spell they could possibly give us.
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90 Dwarf Warlock
17395
04/30/2012 09:21 PMPosted by Bomdanil
http://www.mmo-champion.com/content/2735-Druid-Symbiosis-Spells-Temple-of-Kotmogu-Preview-Galleon-Raid-Blue-Posts


Wow, DKs get the worst possible buff out of Symbiosis compared to the other tank classes.


If DK's mitigation didn't work of %HP then I'd be inclined to agree with you.
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90 Tauren Druid
13110
I am most interested in trying this spell for myself. However, from what I've seen on Wowhead, My 3 preferred classes would probably be for my balance druid:

Mages, for Mirror Image. I'm not selfish. I'm not trying to be elitist. The more dps i can do, the faster things die. You dont have to use that heal, but hey.. if your mana is still full, be a nice extra healer!

Locks, for that lovely 50% damage reduction. Heck, Ill throw in a heal for you :D.

Hunters, That misdirection looks mighty fine. Now i wont have to worry about pulling to much threat off a noobie tank.

But in my opinion, The tank who was whining about you not giving him an extra cd, the obviously by now he hasnt learned how to stagger/use his cd's effectively.
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90 Dwarf Warlock
17395
04/30/2012 10:06 PMPosted by Atropis
We're not talking about guild runs or raids here. We're talking about the dungeon finder. That's what all you people keep missing. Those people bad enough to need it won't freaking use it anyways.


Are they bad for entering an instance that they don't overgear by two tiers?
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84 Human Death Knight
2605
Just to be clear. Symbiosis is the druids lvl 87 spell. Every other class gets their own spell at 87.

As a moonkin, I join a PUG.

Tank - ´ cast it on me, I need the defensive cooldown´.
Me - ´I really want to cast it on the mage for mirror image´.
Mage - ´that is stupid, I don´t want a healing spell´.
Me - ´so don´t use it´
Everyone ´ dude, just give it to the tank, it helps us all´.

kicked for not being a team player.

I know this spell will be awesome in raids and in guild groups.. but wow.. the social implications for pugs is going to be terrible. If this were in addition to another level 87 spell, I would not mind ´wasting´ it on the tank... but this is our level 87 spell and I have a feeling we are always going to be socially forced to throw it on the tank and thus not benefit from it.

My suggestion is this.... make it two spells. Allow us to ´give´ it to one player, but pull from a different player. So I can give the tank the defensive cd, but pull the mages mirror image.


So you're more interested in getting a minimal DPS boost instead of giving the tank something that will benefit the group on a far greater scale?

I don't want you grouped with me, ever.
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100 Night Elf Druid
14530
Just my own two copper here...

One of my favorite things about being a Druid is my utility and versatility to help out in so many different situations. I'm actually pretty excited that we're getting another spell that is team-oriented and not just something that makes me amazing in my own little corner.

I also agree that the actual drama will probably be far less when the first wave of players hit the dungeons, establish what is the "best" use of the ability, and everyone just follows that because someone else said so. I don't really think it's possible to say what an impact the spell will have until we see what the other class's spells look like at level 87-90.
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100 Tauren Druid
15230
One of my favorite things about being a Druid is my utility and versatility to help out in so many different situations. I'm actually pretty excited that we're getting another spell that is team-oriented and not just something that makes me amazing in my own little corner.

I also agree that the actual drama will probably be far less when the first wave of players hit the dungeons, establish what is the "best" use of the ability, and everyone just follows that because someone else said so. I don't really think it's possible to say what an impact the spell will have until we see what the other class's spells look like at level 87-90.

I agree with this completely.
And to all who say the ability is useless to them (Rogues and Growl, etc), how many times do Blizz and other have to point out that its BETA and is completely subject to change. They have said the ability will not be a game-changer (read: You must bring the Shaman for lust, Druid for rebirth, etc).
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04/30/2012 10:06 PMPosted by Atropis
I don't know. I can play/deal with low skill/good attitudes, such as willingness to take advice. I can't deal with OMG LOOK AT MY DPS WHO CARES IF WE'RE WIPING LOL.


I'm typically a healer. A passive aggressive one. DPS that think that typically don't get any heals either.

In PuGs, I give half a crap less about what anyone in the group thinks so long as we finish it. We can't finish it, I make sure we finish it by dumping the weak links. If said weak link is a tank that doesn't know how to use defensive cds, giving him yet another one won't make a lick of difference.

We're not talking about guild runs or raids here. We're talking about the dungeon finder. That's what all you people keep missing. Those people bad enough to need it won't freaking use it anyways.


Actually, I'm quite aware that the OP was referring specifically to dungeon finder, but I fail to see how that fact should be excuse the OP's unwillingness to give it to the tank, if it would be necessary to defeat the boss, in favor of having more DPS for a fight that'd be a wipe if she doesn't give it to the tank anyway.

I'm not talking about a tank that's so bad that he doesn't know to use his class cooldowns anyway; I'm talking about a situation where the group's survival hinges on the tank having an extra cooldown.

I'm talking about who's the better team player, and who deserves the kick more-- the tank who's not skilled but is making a good-faith attempt at getting better and trying his best not to screw up, or the DPS who refuses to give the tank an extra defensive cooldown, even though the group keeps wiping and the cooldown may actually save the group?

I read once that you know a player has been playing since Vanilla by the fact that they take wipes in good stride. That could be why I'm so relaxed about it. Or maybe its because I realize that it's just a game, and allowing someone else enjoy the game as much as I do is worth the extra effort.

BTW, I'm not sure what the phrase "I give half a crap less" means.
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90 Worgen Druid
9365
Just to be clear. Symbiosis is the druids lvl 87 spell. Every other class gets their own spell at 87.

As a moonkin, I join a PUG.

Tank - ´ cast it on me, I need the defensive cooldown´.
Me - ´I really want to cast it on the mage for mirror image´.
Mage - ´that is stupid, I don´t want a healing spell´.
Me - ´so don´t use it´
Everyone ´ dude, just give it to the tank, it helps us all´.

kicked for not being a team player.

I know this spell will be awesome in raids and in guild groups.. but wow.. the social implications for pugs is going to be terrible. If this were in addition to another level 87 spell, I would not mind ´wasting´ it on the tank... but this is our level 87 spell and I have a feeling we are always going to be socially forced to throw it on the tank and thus not benefit from it.

My suggestion is this.... make it two spells. Allow us to ´give´ it to one player, but pull from a different player. So I can give the tank the defensive cd, but pull the mages mirror image.


So you're more interested in getting a minimal DPS boost instead of giving the tank something that will benefit the group on a far greater scale?

I don't want you grouped with me, ever.
So you'd rather forfeit the druid who knows what they're doing and take the tank who's clearly an idiot?

Enjoy your failings. I'm going over here to the people have a clue what the bloody hell they're doing.
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100 Night Elf Druid
14530
04/30/2012 10:23 PMPosted by Nullecke
Druids should enjoy it while it lasts because if Symbiosis is too fantastic, it'll be nerfed or deleted.

Pfft! Moonkin Form is the most fantastic thing to ever be added to the game and we're still here!

/strut
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So you're more interested in getting a minimal DPS boost instead of giving the tank something that will benefit the group on a far greater scale?

I don't want you grouped with me, ever.
So you'd rather forfeit the druid who knows what they're doing and take the tank who's clearly an idiot?

Enjoy your failings. I'm going over here to the people have a clue what the bloody hell they're doing.


Kinda like when a druid refuses to brez the tank or healer because it'll break his awesome DPS, right?

edit: do real druids that know what they're doing typically wear strength trinkets and gem haste?
Edited by Amestris on 4/30/2012 10:29 PM PDT
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85 Draenei Shaman
4805
There is gonna be a lot of drama if a guardian druid uses Lightning Shield and removed my Earth Shield.

And trust me. I know drama.
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