World of Warcraft®

now i have heard that dual is for pve and 2h is for pvp. but others would differ. i have used 2h since i started playing at the beginning in cata i find dual wield kinda fun and different, but somehow i feel like i should be using a 2h weapon which is best for pvp 2h or dual wield?

frankly i like both but i cant seem to decide which i prefer since both have their ups and downs. but moreso i would like to hear what others think is the best so i can reflect on the feedback and hopefully have some enlightenment on the matter and make a decision
please help i would like to get some feedback on this debate.

2handers will say it is better. Dw will say it is better. The general argument is that dw will have more burst, but will generate less runic power.

I have never felt runic power starved with my spec, and if you are doing bg's, the runic power generation of this spec is equalish to 2h if you score enough kbs. I am no math expert, but there is some equation that would show how many kbs you would need in a given set of time for Butchery to make up for the lack of Might of the Frozen Wastes.

The coolest part of this dw spec is that it makes you feel like a beast. When you kill somebody, you get 20 rp from Butchery and your death grip CD gets reset. So, you just grip another to you and kill them too.

But, you will just have to try it out and see what works best for you because it just feels different than 2h. Takes some getting used to.

2handers will say it is better. Dw will say it is better. The general argument is that dw will have more burst, but will generate less runic power.

I have never felt runic power starved with my spec, and if you are doing bg's, the runic power generation of this spec is equalish to 2h if you score enough kbs. I am no math expert, but there is some equation that would show how many kbs you would need in a given set of time for Butchery to make up for the lack of Might of the Frozen Wastes.

The coolest part of this dw spec is that it makes you feel like a beast. When you kill somebody, you get 20 rp from Butchery and your death grip CD gets reset. So, you just grip another to you and kill them too.

But, you will just have to try it out and see what works best for you because it just feels different than 2h. Takes some getting used to.

2h performs better in arenas because of the more consistent rp gain. Stacking necrotics is more important in arenas and attempting to do so as dw spec will eventually rp starve you regardless of spec.

you cant really compare butcherys kb proc with might of the frozen wastes. KBs vs a constant 45% chance on autoattacks for extra rp. MotFW wins out every time.

05/01/2012 07:52 AMPosted by Kusari

KBs vs a constant 45% chance on autoattacks for extra rp. MotFW wins out every time.

The RP generation from MotFW is drastically overrated. 1 point in Scent of Blood alone can match the RP generation in MotFW in many situations. A 2.5 swing timer and 45 percent proc chance for MotFW means you would need to be hit about every .8 seconds for Scent of Blood's 15% proc chance to match up. This is done by quick hitting classes and classes with pets. Rogues are there, Cats are close, Enhance shamans with Windfury, Hunters and Locks w/pets, Treants, DK's get close. All of these classes hit fast enough to make Scent of Blood proc just as often as MotFW.

Add in Butchery's base RP and the proc from KB's and there is little RP advantage for 2H.

I really enjoy DW Frost for PVE, and 2H Frost for PVP.

The best part about DW Frost for PVE is the ability to throttle DPS when you need it. Even in Unholy Presence, Frost rune regen is low, but can be juggled correctly with paced DPS. However, when needed(Heroism/Bloodlust), you can use a Trinket and remove your limiters, blowing through runes as fast as possible and Blood Tapping/Empowering to keep your abilities fed.

The blasty damage of 2H Frost is awesome for PVP, where you can shred through damage Shields, slow(freeze) everything within 30yrds, turn Clothies into paste, and lockdown anything that uses Mana. Even in Season 9 and shoddy DPS pieces I plow through most players. The first few games, I thought it was just some newly-active-again luck...but after four straight weeks of it, I dunno what else.

05/02/2012 04:03 AMPosted by Kommunism

The blasty damage of 2H Frost is awesome for PVP, where you can shred through damage Shields, slow(freeze) everything within 30yrds, turn Clothies into paste, and lockdown anything that uses Mana. Even in Season 9 and shoddy DPS pieces I plow through most players. The first few games, I thought it was just some newly-active-again luck...but after four straight weeks of it, I dunno what else.

None of this is at all exclusive to 2H Frosties.

05/01/2012 11:29 PMPosted by Gashcat

KBs vs a constant 45% chance on autoattacks for extra rp. MotFW wins out every time.

The RP generation from MotFW is drastically overrated. 1 point in Scent of Blood alone can match the RP generation in MotFW in many situations. A 2.5 swing timer and 45 percent proc chance for MotFW means you would need to be hit about every .8 seconds for Scent of Blood's 15% proc chance to match up. This is done by quick hitting classes and classes with pets. Rogues are there, Cats are close, Enhance shamans with Windfury, Hunters and Locks w/pets, Treants, DK's get close. All of these classes hit fast enough to make Scent of Blood proc just as often as MotFW.

Add in Butchery's base RP and the proc from KB's and there is little RP advantage for 2H.

15% chance is quite low and only works against the handful of classes you mentioned. and in pvp kbs are not as easily attained as you are trying to make them out to be so butchery's proc is fairly useless especially when you start adding other players into the mix who can steal the kb from you.
MotFW is more consistent and doesnt rely on you getting your face chewed off by a melee class for decent rp gain.

05/02/2012 08:19 AMPosted by Kusari

pvp kbs are not as easily attained as you are trying to make them out to be

If you aren't getting that many KB's, perhaps you should go DW. I am always top KB's and top damage. There is something to be said about the way that RP is gained and spent with this DW spec that is often overlooked.

Getting 20 RP and resetting the CD of Death Grip is no joke. It makes killing blows something you can string together. Presumably you have spent a good majority of your RP trying to kill a target with either spec If you land a KB, you reset the CD of Death Grip, but don't have any RP to get off a frost strike. By the time you get back to Frost Striking, the new target is already dead. With a DW spec, you kill a target, get 20 RP, probably a KM proc in there, and another KB. You might be surprised at the number of extra KB's you can get.

05/02/2012 10:58 AMPosted by Gashcat

pvp kbs are not as easily attained as you are trying to make them out to be

If you aren't getting that many KB's, perhaps you should go DW. I am always top KB's and top damage. There is something to be said about the way that RP is gained and spent with this DW spec that is often overlooked.

Getting 20 RP and resetting the CD of Death Grip is no joke. It makes killing blows something you can string together. Presumably you have spent a good majority of your RP trying to kill a target with either spec If you land a KB, you reset the CD of Death Grip, but don't have any RP to get off a frost strike. By the time you get back to Frost Striking, the new target is already dead. With a DW spec, you kill a target, get 20 RP, probably a KM proc in there, and another KB. You might be surprised at the number of extra KB's you can get.

im sure that works fine on the herp derps in pug bgs but in any competitive play you wont be stringing kbs back to back like that

You have to love that fictional event where players die in large numbers constantly like a pack of gnolls.

Well, I just had an epiphany about this and I finally realize why this is such a source of argument. We are talking about what is essentially a very, very small difference.

Take into account all of the ways we gain RP and in the end, the difference between MotFW and Butchery with Scent of Blood and we are probably talking about 2 or 3 percent. All of our Rune using abilities, Chains of Ice (Glove Bonus), 4-piece set bonus, Horn of Winter and then MotFW or Butchery and SoB. If there is a difference between MotFW and Butchery and SoB, even if MotFW destroys it RP generation, it still represents a very small difference in overall RP generation.

What we are really arguing about is a perversion of the argument as to why MotFW is better. It is better when you are stacking necros (on a target slowed by desecration, that isn't attacking you) and you are allowed to gain RP through auto-attacks and then unload your RP with Frost Strikes. This, is a great tactic for Arenas, but when your RP generation is reliant on being in melee range, it performs less than spectacularly in all BG's, especially random BG's where following somebody who you are trying to kill can get you killed, or take you away from your objective.

Desecration, in order to not be superfluous, requires a dispeller on the other team. And, MotFW in order to generate this consistent RP, requires a dispeller on your team as well. Without that, you can find yourself out of melee range for longer periods of time, and thus not generating RP through MotFW.

In the end, the difference is about when, not how much. If you are in a situation, often, that allows constant melee up-time, the RP from MotFW is off the charts. If however, this isn't something that you can count on, the performace of MotFW isn't so great.

05/02/2012 12:57 PMPosted by Tor

You have to love that fictional event where players die in large numbers constantly like a pack of gnolls.

Closer to truth than you'd think, at least in random BGs. It's very common for frost DKs to triple or quadruple the next highest damage. Most people don't do very much damage and die very easily. Easy pickings.

05/02/2012 10:35 PMPosted by Reygh

Closer to truth than you'd think, at least in random BGs. It's very common for frost DKs to triple or quadruple the next highest damage. Most people don't do very much damage and die very easily. Easy pickings.

It's true.

http://imgur.com/GcCRy

Run of the mill random EotS.

It's 2hnd for arena and usually dual wield for bg's. Having said that you can get away with 2hnd in bg's easier then dual wield in the arena